The One Baptism

[Matthias]

I always just assumed it was Hebrew. It seemed fitting.

Whatever it was, the past is the past. What about the future?

Will everyone speak one language again? Will everyone speak the universal language of the past? Will everyone be multi-lingual? Will everyone speak an entirely new, perhaps previously unknown to man, language?

I don’t know. I know I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. :)

 

[RLT63]

One of my best friends is a Mormon. I remember him telling me that.

A case can be made for Hebrew but I don’t find it particularly strong. It strikes me as a sentimental argument. Abraham is the key figure, it seems to me, in that conversation. What was his native tongue? Akkadian? Aramaic? Hebrew? Some other Semitic dialect?

Maybe Jesus is the key figure. What was his native tongue? Aramaic. Would it have been the universal language prior to the Tower of Babylon? I don’t know. Was he multi-lingual? I believe so but I really don’t think it has any bearing on the question. He spoke the language(s) of the multi-culture he lived in.

It’s interesting to think about but I don’t think it’s anywhere near being a salvation issue.

P.S.

I wonder if @theefaith might think the universal language prior to the Tower of Babylon was Latin - the official language of the Roman Catholic Church.

I have issues with the Catholic Church but I believe there are Catholics who are saved. I don't condemn their people. He actually thinks he's the only one that's right and if you don't believe like him you're lost.

 

[Matthias]

I have issues with the Catholic Church …

I have issues with all denominations, including the one which licenses me. Some issues are more important than others.

…but I believe there are Catholics who are saved. I don't condemn their people.

God has appointed a man to judge. I think it’s wise to leave the matter in that man’s hands.

He actually thinks he's the only one that's right and if you don't believe like him you're lost.

It’s a semi-free country. I’ve asked him to tell me what he believes and why he believes it. He’s been straightforward with me, and I truly appreciate that. In my book, he’s done me a good service.

 

[RLT63]

I have issues with all denominations, including the one which licenses me. Some issues are more important than others.



God has appointed a man to judge. I think it’s wise to leave the matter in that man’s hands.



It’s a semi-free country. I’ve asked him to tell me what he believes and why he believes it. He’s been straightforward with me, and I truly appreciate that. In my book, he’s done me a good service.

It's not isolated. There are JWs on here who think the same thing though the ones I know would never say that. I've met UPCs who say you're not saved until you speak in tongues. I've just learned that the more I learn the more I see how little I know and I leave judging to God.

 

[RLT63]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

What does it mean that there is only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5)? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Marymog]

The burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. Scripture ONLY shows examples of baptizing adults.

IF you want to follow Christ, keep in mind he was ~30 years old when he was baptized.

Lol....Got it. You have none. Thank you for your time.

 

[Wrangler]

The burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. Scripture ONLY shows examples of baptizing adults.

IF you want to follow Christ, keep in mind he was ~30 years old when he was baptized.

Lol....Got it. You have none. Thank you for your time.

There is that mocking Spirit again. You are not a Christ follower, making up your own tradition contrary to the word of God. This exemplifies WHY there was a Protestant movement. Anyone who actually reads the Bible realizes how much the RCC goes against what it says.

There are ONLY stories of adult Baptism in Scripture. Yet, you baptize infants. Then you invent a standard that the Bible has to list all the things you are NOT to do. You are not motivated by love, logic or Scripture. Makes one wonder what your motivations are.


And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”
Mark 7:13 NLT

 

[Marymog]

There are ONLY stories of adult Baptism in Scripture.

Yup, there were ONLY adults in entire families that were baptized......

 

[Marymog]

There is that mocking Spirit again. You are not a Christ follower, making up your own tradition contrary to the word of God. This exemplifies WHY there was a Protestant movement. Anyone who actually reads the Bible realizes how much the RCC goes against what it says.

There are ONLY stories of adult Baptism in Scripture. Yet, you baptize infants. Then you invent a standard that the Bible has to list all the things you are NOT to do. You are not motivated by love, logic or Scripture. Makes one wonder what your motivations are.


And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”
Mark 7:13 NLT

Hey Wrangler,

If I my statements are "mocking" then what does that make you with statements like this: You are not a Christ follower, making up your own tradition contrary to the word of God.... Anyone who actually reads the Bible realizes how much the RCC goes against what it says.

For you see Wrangler it was your Protestant forefathers who started a new tradition by NOT baptizing infants. You and your Protestant men CHANGED tradition. Well, some of your Protestant men did anyways. Some Protestant denominations still hold to the 2,000-year tradition of baptizing ALL in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Keeping it real with the facts....Mary

 

[Wrangler]

Lol....Got it. You have none. Thank you for your time.

If I my statements are "mocking" then what does that make you with statements like this: You are not a Christ follower, making up your own tradition contrary to the word of God.... Anyone who actually reads the Bible realizes how much the RCC goes against what it says.

Pray for the answer, the Spirit will guide you in all truth. Ask God to give you the discernment between your mocking post and mine (no LOL, no sarcastic 'got it' or 'thanks'. No twisting of who has the burden).

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water!

Correct. Now, what is the purpose of the baptism which is water?:

1) Induction into the OT priesthood, Correct?:

a) After FIRST selecting of those with "NO blemish" Correct?:

Lev 21:16-21 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying
...No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the
priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD
made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh
to offer the bread of his God."
​

b) Then, Next is "WASHING with water" Correct?:

Exo 29:4 "And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring
unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
and shalt wash them with water."

Lev 8:6 "And Moses brought Aaron and his sons,
and washed them with water."

Num 8:5-7 "And the LORD spake unto Moses,
saying, Take the Levites from among the children
of Israel, and cleanse them. And thus shalt thou do
unto them, to cleanse them:

Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them
shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes,
and so make themselves clean."
​

c) And, then THIRD, anointing * these "NO blemish and
clean" selectees into the priesthood, Correct?:

Exo 29:7 "Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and
pour it upon his head, and anoint him."

Lev 8:10-12 "And Moses took the anointing oil, and
anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and
sanctified them.

And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times,
and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the
laver and his foot, to sanctify them. And he poured
of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed
him, to sanctify him."​

Thus, why would "John's water baptism" not be a continuation
of the same induction, as God Had Promised, Correct?:

Exo 19:3,6 "And Moses went up unto God, and the
LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying,
Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell
the children of Israel...

...And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests,
and an holy nation. These are The Words which
thou shalt speak unto the children of ISRAEL."​

2) Another reason God Has for water baptism, Correct?:

John_1:31 "And I knew Him not: but that He should be made
manifest to ISRAEL, therefore am I come baptizing with water."
​

3) And yet Another reason, From God, FOR water baptism, Correct?:

Mark_1:4 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the
baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins."

Luke_3:3 "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching
the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins"

Acts_2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every
one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive..."

[* the THIRD Requirement, Anointing, for the Israeli priesthood]:

"...the gift of the Holy Ghost."​

God's Preserved Biblical Confirmation, with NO traditional interpreta-
tions needed (God's Word read Exactly "As It Is Written," God Meaning
"What Exactly HE [Jesus, God Speaking, on earth] Said!"), Correct?:

Luke_7:29-30 "And all the people that heard Him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Phari-
sees and lawyers REJECTED The Counsel of God Against themselves,

being NOT baptized of him."​

Sins UNforgiven, Correct???...​

---------------------------------
to be continued, moving toward ONE Baptism?

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

 

[Charlie24]

Correct. Now, what is the purpose of the baptism which is water?:

1) Induction into the OT priesthood, Correct?:

a) After FIRST selecting of those with "NO blemish" Correct?:

Lev 21:16-21 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying
...No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the
priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD
made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh
to offer the bread of his God."
​

b) Then, Next is "WASHING with water" Correct?:

Exo 29:4 "And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring
unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
and shalt wash them with water."

Lev 8:6 "And Moses brought Aaron and his sons,
and washed them with water."

Num 8:5-7 "And the LORD spake unto Moses,
saying, Take the Levites from among the children
of Israel, and cleanse them. And thus shalt thou do
unto them, to cleanse them:

Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them
shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes,
and so make themselves clean."
​

c) And, then THIRD, anointing * these "NO blemish and
clean" selectees into the priesthood, Correct?:

Exo 29:7 "Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and
pour it upon his head, and anoint him."

Lev 8:10-12 "And Moses took the anointing oil, and
anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and
sanctified them.

And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times,
and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the
laver and his foot, to sanctify them. And he poured
of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed
him, to sanctify him."​

Thus, why would "John's water baptism" not be a continuation
of the same induction, as God Had Promised, Correct?:

Exo 19:3,6 "And Moses went up unto God, and the
LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying,
Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell
the children of Israel...

...And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests,
and an holy nation. These are The Words which
thou shalt speak unto the children of ISRAEL."​

2) Another reason God Has for water baptism, Correct?:

John_1:31 "And I knew Him not: but that He should be made
manifest to ISRAEL, therefore am I come baptizing with water."
​

3) And yet Another reason, From God, FOR water baptism, Correct?:

Mark_1:4 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the
baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins."

Luke_3:3 "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching
the baptism of repentance FOR the remission of sins"

Acts_2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every
one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive..."

[* the THIRD Requirement, Anointing, for the Israeli priesthood]:

"...the gift of the Holy Ghost."​

God's Preserved Biblical Confirmation, with NO traditional interpreta-
tions needed (God's Word read Exactly "As It Is Written," God Meaning
"What Exactly HE [Jesus, God Speaking, on earth] Said!"), Correct?:

Luke_7:29-30 "And all the people that heard Him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Phari-
sees and lawyers REJECTED The Counsel of God Against themselves,

being NOT baptized of him."
Sins UNforgiven, Correct???...​

---------------------------------
to be continued, moving toward ONE Baptism?

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

John's baptism had a different purpose. It was a water baptism to repentance looking for the coming Christ who was now in the midst of the people.

The believers baptism could not come into service until the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ had taken place.

John's baptism was looking forward to what Christ would do, the believers baptism is looking back at what Christ did.

John the Baptist was to introduce Christ to Israel, and Israel would introduce Christ to the world.

John's baptism was a preparation for Christ to save His people in order for them to take Christ to the world.

 

[Charlie24]

John's baptism had a different purpose. It was a water baptism to repentance looking for the coming Christ who was now in the midst of the people.

The believers baptism could not come into service until the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ had taken place.

John's baptism was looking forward to what Christ would do, the believers baptism is looking back at what Christ did.

John the Baptist was to introduce Christ to Israel, and Israel would introduce Christ to the world.

John's baptism was a preparation for Christ to save His people in order for them to take Christ to the world.

Water baptism/believers baptism is much more than a picture of our purification through faith unto God's acceptance!

It is our public confession of what the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have done for us.

The purpose for that baptism is that confession of faith! The apostles demanded that confession, and demanded it immediately!

 

[Charlie24]

Water baptism/believers baptism is much more than a picture of our purification through faith unto God's acceptance!

It is our public confession of what the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have done for us.

The purpose for that baptism is that confession of faith! The apostles demanded that confession, and demanded it immediately!

And while we are discussing this, let's understand why in Scripture they were baptized in the name of the Lord, but Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Those in Israel were being baptized in the name of the Lord, they knew who the Father was and they knew who the Holy Spirit was.

But when Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, this is when they would take it to the nations of the world, who did not know God and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was not alone in our redemption, it was a work of the Godhead, the triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

The burden of proof is on the one making a positive claim. Scripture ONLY shows examples of baptizing adults.

IF you want to follow Christ, keep in mind he was ~30 years old when he was baptized.

Christ was keeping the Law of Moses. Numbers 4:3 tells us this is the age a priest would enter his office.

Christ said that every jot and tittle of the Law would be fulfilled (Matthew 5:18)

Christ fulfilled the Law in every single aspect, in some ways that we will only realize when we reach Glory.

 

[Wrangler]

Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I'm not so sure he said that. Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not so sure he said that. Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord

He plainly said it in Matt. 28:19, unless you believe some heretic added that into Scripture.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

 

[Wrangler]

He plainly said it in Matt. 28:19, unless you believe some heretic added that into Scripture.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Indeed I do think Matt 28:19 was added by a heretic, a trinitarian heretic. Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible

But the point is explaining why the Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord IF it were true? I think an objective person has to conclude it peculiar.

 

[Charlie24]

Indeed I do think Matt 28:19 was added by a heretic, a trinitarian heretic. Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible

But the point is explaining why the Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord IF it were true? I think an objective person has to conclude it peculiar.

Tertullian was born around 160 AD, and there is absolute proof that he spoke of "the baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. There are many after him who spoke of it.

You have no proof of what you say, and I ask you, who is the heretic? The one who supposedly added the phrase or the one who attempted to keep it out?

 

[Wrangler]

You have no proof of what you say

I do have proof. You just don't want to accept it.

I'm not so sure he said that. Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord

The proof is in this form:

P1. At the end of a book (Matthew), a profoundly significant statement is made inconsistent with what was said up until that point. (This alone is suspicious.)
P2. Other books (Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians) contradict this profound statement.
C. The suspicion is logically proven as a contradiction and is therefore, untrue.
​

Did you even read the link? You have not answered the question of Why The Apostles Repeatedly Disobeyed the Risen Lord?

Further evidence is in the link I provided, which you apparently did not read:

Eusebius was present at the council of Nicea and was involved in the debates between Arias and the pagan view of Athanasius that became the trinity doctrine. If the manuscripts he had in front of him read “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” he would never have quoted instead, “in my name.” So it appears that the earliest manuscripts read “in my name,” and the phrase was enlarged to reflect the orthodox position as Trinitarian influence spread.​