The Nicene Creed is not Christian

[Joyful]

We are born again as soon as we do what Paul instructs in Rom 10:9-11

Whether we are born again or not is up to Jesus to decide.

All His followers can do is do their best to be true to Him. Then you have nothing to worry.

 

[Joyful]

Try telling that one to the apostle Paul and his teaching in the epistles.

I don't worry about Paul's teachings. I have Jesus' direct word witch is much clear and simple than Paul's instructions.

 

[zeke25]

I can't disagree with your sentiments. However, it seems to me that the baptism analogy of being baptised into Christ at conversion seems to be more in line with what is being taught in Rom 6:3-4.

I'm taking it into consideration.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't worry about Paul's teachings. I have Jesus' direct word witch is much clear and simple than Paul's instructions.

'Witch'???

So the rest of the NT is of no use to you, apart from Jesus' 'direct words'. So do you have a red letter Bible so you are able to discern Jesus' direct words? Are the rest of the Gospels also superfluous - besides Jesus' exact words?

 

[OzSpen]

Whether we are born again or not is up to Jesus to decide.

All His followers can do is do their best to be true to Him. Then you have nothing to worry.

So what is the Gospel that is needed to be proclaimed so that people can be born again?

 

[mjrhealth]

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

It isnt so hard

 

[OzSpen]

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

It isnt so hard

Quoting verses does not present a reasoned argument.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its "reasoning" that has caused so much diviision amongst the denominations. The OT was the law, it was the flesh it was the "OLD WINE" the NT is all the Spirit it is the Holy Ghost it is Christ it is the new wine.

In all His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Its "reasoning" that has caused so much diviision amongst the denominations. The OT was the law, it was the flesh it was the "OLD WINE" the NT is all the Spirit it is the Holy Ghost it is Christ it is the new wine.

In all His Love

Is Hebrews 9:15 (NASB) not in your Bible?

For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Have you ever tried to provide a defense (apologia) of Christianity without doing some reasoning? (1 Peter 3:15 NASB)

 

[Joyful]

'Witch'???

Sorry, typo.

 

[Joyful]

So what is the Gospel that is needed to be proclaimed so that people can be born again?

Do you want my opinion or Jesus' teachings.

Jesus word is much better than mine, friend.

It is not so hard to understand. It is clear and simple, read it, friend.

I am an evangelist and I spread Jesus' word to the world which is written in the NT, gospels. I don't spread my own understanding.

 

[OzSpen]

Do you want my opinion or Jesus' teachings.

Jesus word is much better than mine, friend.

It is not so hard to understand. It is clear and simple, read it, friend.

I am an evangelist and I spread Jesus' word to the world which is written in the NT. I don't spread my own understanding.

But you have spread your own understanding in this thread, without biblical evidence to support your position.

Are you ignorant of what you do with these kinds of replies?

 

[mjrhealth]

Have you ever tried to provide a defense (apologia) of Christianity without doing some reasoning? (1 Peter 3:15 NASB)

Who needs human reasoning when one has Christ, who needs human reasoning when one has accepted the Holy Spirit, the comforter who teaches us all things, who needs human reasoning when one has the risen lord , the living God and teh Spirit of truth, you cant "reason" God.

But than if you dont have these what is there??

In all His Love

 

[Joyful]

But you have spread your own understanding in this thread,

Yes, they all came from Jesus' word. If you don't agree, you need to read for yourself. Mine is overall understanding of Jesus' word. It is called overall contextual reasoning.

Mine is all basics of Christianity what Jesus teaches.

 

[Wormwood]

But you've missed what he stated before the quote he gave at footnote #12 (p. 246 of his commentary on Romans):

I have several other evangelical commentaries that indicate that Rom 6:3-4 does not refer to the physical act of baptism but baptism into the body of Christ as initiation into new life in Christ.

Oz

I didn't miss it. I was just focusing on Morris' view and its clear he did not agree with those who felt this baptism was unrelated to or not an inference of water baptism as you indicated. Morris clearly thinks this passage is connected to water baptism but the emphasis is on the spiritual dynamics of that baptism.

Clearly they did, and if you read what Paul also did in Acts 19, you will see the Apostles had the ability or ministry to lay hands in people and have them receive that baptism. Being baptized BY the Holy Spirit means you receive the Holy Spirit, just as examples in Acts confirm that speaking in tongues is an initial evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit, laying hands on people confirms it is also a ministry given to some.
if they were baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and John said Jesus baptised with the Holy Spirit and Fire, then that is what their baptism was. Water baptism was in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Jesus commanded in the Great Commission, which IMO ended when Jesus rose from the dead and gave them NEW instructions to WAIT for the Holy Spirit and Power.

StanJ,

Is it your position that Jesus was telling his disciples to go around and lay hands on people in Matthew 28 when he told them to make disciples by baptizing? In the absence of any reference to laying on of hands, the Holy Spirit falling in power, tongues or anything else of that nature, I think we just have to assume baptism means...baptism. Especially in light of the half dozen other passages in Acts that speak of baptism that clearly are referring to being immersed in water as a plea for cleansing and reception of the Holy Spirit. Again, I don't think any first century reader would look at this passage and conclude that this meant they were to allow Peter to put his hands on them so they could receive a spiritual baptism. Also, Peter said this promise is for everyone. Is this your practice of bringing people into the church...laying your hands on them so they will be baptized in the Spirit? Whatever this verse is teaching (I contend its water baptism), its clearly saying that the promise is for all people and all generations. I don't see anything about praying a sinners prayer here, or receiving the Holy Spirit merely due to mental acceptance of an idea. Clearly something is to be done....repentance and ___________________ (you insert laying on hands, Ill insert water baptism). Yet that is not what we see in most Western churches today. No call to repentance. No call to immersion (or laying on of hands). Just an individualized, personal prayer that does not involve anyone else and demands no public display or life change. This is is not what the Scriptures teach...even if we accept your notion that baptism means something other than the basic first century understanding and practice of Christian baptism.

 

[OzSpen]

Who needs human reasoning when one has Christ, who needs human reasoning when one has accepted the Holy Spirit, the comforter who teaches us all things, who needs human reasoning when one has the risen lord , the living God and teh Spirit of truth, you cant "reason" God.

But than if you dont have these what is there??

In all His Love

You still have not answered my question of how one can do a defense (apologia) of the faith without engaging in reasoning.

Is Isaiah 1:18 not in your Bible?

“Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool (Isa 1:18 ESV)

 

[OzSpen]

Yes, they all came from Jesus' word. If you don't agree, you need to read for yourself. Mine is overall understanding of Jesus' word. It is called overall contextual reasoning.

Mine is all basics of Christianity what Jesus teaches.

I give up trying to interact with you when you refuse to deal with the issues I raise with you. This was your response to my statement: 'But you have spread your own understanding in this thread'. Yours is a red herring response. We cannot have a reasonable conversation when you do this.

Bye! Bye!

 

[Joyful]

I give up trying to interact with you when you refuse to deal with the issues I raise with you. This was your response to my statement: 'But you have spread your own understanding in this thread'. Yours is a red herring response. We cannot have a reasonable conversation when you do this.

Bye! Bye!

good day, friend.

 

[Butch5]

Who needs human reasoning when one has Christ, who needs human reasoning when one has accepted the Holy Spirit, the comforter who teaches us all things, who needs human reasoning when one has the risen lord , the living God and teh Spirit of truth, you cant "reason" God.

But than if you dont have these what is there??

In all His Love

Christians need human reasoning so that they can determine that the passage about the Comforter teaching all things was a statement that was directed to the Apostles not all Christians.

 

[StanJ]

Whether we are born again or not is up to Jesus to decide.

All His followers can do is do their best to be true to Him. Then you have nothing to worry.

God already had the plan of salvation ready before He created the world, so it is not UP to Jesus, it's up to us, to respond positively to God's drawing and then to confess Jesus as our Savior in accordance with God's plan.