the New Nature

[Randy Kluth]

Heb 4.6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I would just point out something very interesting, very exciting, in this that touched brother Watchman Nee many years ago, which then touched me, as well. The division of soul and spirit lit up for Brother Nee, who saw that in our soul, ie in our mind, will, and emotions, we can do things that are purely "works," as opposed to putting on a new nature, which derives from Christ. We can do all kinds of good things, in apparent obedience to God's word, but if this does not translate into a new nature, modelled after our Creator, then it is empty and nothing more than perfunctory performance art.

Our soul, then, can remain religious and yet without the full knowledge of Christ. We can be emotional over our concern for someone, we can be emotional in spiritual worship, we can fight for a good cause, and we can even understand right and wrong. But if we don't know who God is in the sense of who He wants us to be like, then our soul indulges in a form of vanity.

In that case, the soul misses that which truly saves us--a new nature given to us by Christ. The spirit should know what Christ's nature is, and what new nature it is that we should put on. The word of God detects this essential difference between soul and spirit. The soul needs to be under the supervision of the spirit when it perceives our need to put on the nature of Christ--not just the works of Christ.

Some say Salvation simply results from believing in NT redemption, as opposed to the Law, which was ritualistic and void of changing Israel. This is hostile towards Israel and a form of antinomianism. Yes, Israel as a whole failed over time, but that doesn't mean the word of God under the Law failed!

In reality, the Law was God's word, as much as the New Covenant is God's word. And the Law was designed not just to get Israel to perform externally, but also to worship God internally through conformity to God's nature. The Law was designed, as in everything else, to make Israel put on a new nature patterned after God Himself.

Heb 3.7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Please note: God used the wilderness sufferings and deprivation to allow Israel's external circumstances and evident signs of God's help to bring them into a fuller knowledge of who God is, or what HIs nature is. It was *testing,* pure and simple. It was to expose the difference between soul and spirit, between external obedience and inward spiritual change. And that was called "today" in that day, ie in the time of the Law. They could *know God* in their own day! That's why Jesus told Nicodemus, while they were still under the Law, that he should've known, as Israel's teacher, what being "Born Again" meant. It was Israel's need to put on a new spiritual nature.

So God has always used His word to bring change to people, to encourage them to do right, but also to come to a full knowledge of His nature so that they may convert completely from their old independent nature to a new nature operating in partnership with God.

God's word is operating in our lives all the time. We just need to become aware of it. It's the job of Christians to make people aware of this, since they should already have that experience. They should be sharing with the ignorant should they be even remotely interested. If they are not interested, their guilt is on themselves. But we need to always make ourselves available to God's word, since we have put on God's nature and actually have chosen to live by His word.

 

[Behold]

Heb 4.6
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

This is another Verse that denies Calvinism, TULIP, Hyper-Calvinism, as the verse states that the person harden's their own heart.

That's a FREE WILL Choice.

That's why Jesus told Nicodemus, while they were still under the Law, that he should've known, as Israel's teacher, what being "Born Again" meant.

It would be impossible for Nicodemus to have understood what it meant to be "born again" when at that time no one on earth was born again yet, as Jesus had not died on The Cross Yet.

 

[Behold]

The "new Nature" is the "divine Nature", and Peter explains this... in 2 Peter 1:4.

He states that we participate in this "Divine Nature".. and what that is, is a restoration back into the same Spiritual Union with God, that Adam had before He lost it.

2nd Adam, came, and died as a Eternal Sacrifice for us, so that by this Sacrifice of Jesus, .. our SIN that was separating us from God's Spirit, could be removed, which then allows God's Holy Spirit, to birth us, as "born again" into the Spirit of God as "IN Christ" and "ONE with God".

This new birth of our spirit, is what the NT defines as to become "The Temple of the Holy Spirit".. as.. a "New Creation in Christ"...........
= Born...... again. (Spiritually)

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is another Verse that denies Calvinism, TULIP, Hyper-Calvinism, as the verse states that the person harden's their own heart.

That's a FREE WILL Choice.

I agree that it was Free Will. I agree that some elements of Calvinism do not work. I do not agree that all of Calvinism is disproven. I don't believe Calvin rejected Free Will entirely--just the freedom to choose for Salvation. I believe Free Will works for Salvation even though I remain a Predestinarian.

It would be impossible for Nicodemus to have understood what it meant to be "born again" when at that time no one on earth was born again yet, as Jesus had not died on The Cross Yet.

Jesus told Nicodemus he should've known what he was talking about. And I quoted to you how Israel should've known, even under the Law, what God's "ways" were.

To me this indicates understanding of God's "nature." It is an indication that Israel was to choose to do not just good works of the Law, but also understand and follow God's nature. They were to put on that nature for themselves.

I agree that it was not spelled out in the NT sense until after the Cross, because Eternal Life then came into play, whereas under the Law that was not yet achieved. That is, only in the NT does putting on God's nature result in Eternal Life.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Some people think the New Birth is strictly a NT phenomenon, and I understand that. They may be right, or they may be under the influence of their own brand of theology.

For example, some Pentecostals think one must speak in tongues or he isn't saved. Or a Baptist may think a person hasn't been saved unless he has been water baptized? Whether this is the case or not, I know that people will automatically reject the idea of OT Rebirth simply because the Rebirth was taught by Jesus, leading into the New Testament.

However, Jesus taught the Rebirth while Israel was still under the Law and insisted that Jewish teachers had been taught about it. How can we not think that David knew God's nature and what kind of nature he had to have? When he asked God to cleanse him of his sin and install a new spirit in him was that a "New or Purified Nature from God?"

Can saints like David and the Prophets really be called "saints" unless they have a godly nature in them? I would suggest that having a New Nature under the Old Covenant was as relevant at that time as it is under the New Covenant!

When Israel was told that they needed a "New Heart," was that not a New Nature promised them while they were yet under the OT Law? If so, they should've understood that they needed a right heart immediately, and not just years later when the New Covenant had come into play.

So I think the idea of a New Nature is as old as God creating Man in His image, after His likeness. That speaks of Man's innate ability to put on a spiritual nature just like God's nature. And obviously it means we can all instinctively understand it, even if we don't accept the whole package.

There are those who accept only what they want to do to help themselves. They may adopt the "Golden Rule" if it suits their business, for example, but reject the idea of converting completely to be a disciple of Jesus.

If so, this is not Salvation. Salvation is the embrace of an entirely new nature in subjection to God. When we repent we ask for a new or cleansed nature, and the Prophets promised this to Israel when they repented fully of their sins.

So Jewish teachers under the Law should've understood this. And mankind, having a conscience, should understand what a complete conversion to Christ would mean, as opposed to just picking and choosing what practices to follow.

The big difference between the testaments is not, I think, this matter of having a New Nature. Rather, it is what this New Nature promises us.

In the NT it promises us Eternal Life. Under the Law, all hope was in Christ's future sacrifice of atonement.

They did not yet have God dwelling in them permanently. They were just temporary, sojourning "tents," and were not yet an eternal house, or temple, for God.

That would come once the atonement had been made, and we had chosen to be fully committed to it. That is, we must commit to the New Nature *in Christ,* and not just to a New Nature. It is accepting Christ's atonement along with our new nature that saves us.

If Israel wanted to become an eternal Temple to God they had to embrace God's Nature. If we want to become part of God's eternal Temple we must embrace a whole New Nature. We can't fix up the "old building"--it's a lost cause. We have to commit to trusting Christ for a whole new building, free from accusation.

 

[Behold]

I agree that it was not spelled out in the NT sense until after the Cross, because Eternal Life then came into play, whereas under the Law that was not yet achieved. That is, only in the NT does putting on God's nature result in Eternal Life

Jesus was speaking spiritual truth to an unsaved Jew when he was having a conversation with Nicodemus.
That's a disconnect.

Paul is a different case, because Paul became Born again, and then Jesus gave Him the Revelation, of The Gospel of the Grace of God, and Church Doctrine.

When we as believers think in terms of "ministry", and "what to do".. then Paul is "that one", as what He did, is what we are to do.
His is a contemporary Christianity, that is not "Jewish".
He Builds Churches.
He leads people to the Cross.
He flows in the Spiritual gifts, and He's the one who taught them.
He's the TEACHER who told us to "study to show yourself approved">.. study the scriptures.
He is the one who explains that "its all Spiritual", and you have to get a mind that is the same., or you exist in a carnal mind and you will stay in Hebrews 6:1, and end up in a cult.
He shows us how to deal with Heretics, and How to choose a Pastor for The Church.
The list of "How to" and "what to do", all comes from Paul's Epistles.

ALL of the issues that we face today, as a contemporary Christian... Minister, or as a contemporary Christian Believer...... is what Paul's Epistles are all about.
He is the One that Jesus chose to show the "body of Christ", what to do, what to think, how to do it, and why to see it according to how Paul's Doctrine reveals it.

That the "cult of the Virgin" built their religious opera on PETER, is curious, as Jesus built the gentile Body of Christ on Paul's Doctrine, as it came from Jesus, through Paul.

"and someone says...well, all the apostles are the same".

No, they are not.. except for the Title.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus was speaking spiritual truth to an unsaved Jew when he was having a conversation with Nicodemus.
That's a disconnect.

That's your impression, and I understand that. I, however, see Jesus' statements to Nicodemus as direct, on target, and connecting.

Paul is a different case, because Paul became Born again, and then Jesus gave Him the Revelation, of The Gospel of the Grace of God, and Church Doctrine.

I don't understand? At what Paul are you speaking of Jesus giving him a revelation? Jesus revealed himself to Paul *before* he was Born Again, and he revealed himself to him *after* he was Born Again, as well.

When we as believers think in terms of "ministry", and "what to do".. then Paul is "that one", as what He did, is what we are to do.
His is a contemporary Christianity, that is not "Jewish".

Paul was Jewish but certainly not any longer a member of Judaism. "Jewish" can be either an ethnic or a religious term.

What Jesus said to Nicodemus is what God was saying to Jews while they were still under the Law. They should've understood what being "Born Again" meant. They should've understood what being a "saint" was, what having a "right spirit" was, what receiving a new, cleansed heart was.

These things had been part of their Scriptural teaching. Most importantly, they knew Man had been created in the image of God, to reflect God's "likeness" in their human nature.

And they knew that Adam and his descendants had fallen from that true picture of God's nature. The Law had been a step towards restoring the nature of God in their living.

He Builds Churches.
He leads people to the Cross.
He flows in the Spiritual gifts, and He's the one who taught them.
He's the TEACHER who told us to "study to show yourself approved">.. study the scriptures.
He is the one who explains that "its all Spiritual", and you have to get a mind that is the same., or you exist in a carnal mind and you will stay in Hebrews 6:1, and end up in a cult.
He shows us how to deal with Heretics, and How to choose a Pastor for The Church.
The list of "How to" and "what to do", all comes from Paul's Epistles.

Paul merely reflected Jesus. We are to follow Jesus--not Paul. Paul is purely an example and helped lay the foundation for Christian teaching.

The source of our spirituality and divine nature is Christ, who taught in both testaments. And in both testaments the People of God were to put on the Divine nature, although it is only in the New Testament that the Divine nature becomes a permanent part of our inheritance.

ALL of the issues that we face today, as a contemporary Christian... Minister, or as a contemporary Christian Believer...... is what Paul's Epistles are all about.
He is the One that Jesus chose to show the "body of Christ", what to do, what to think, how to do it, and why to see it according to how Paul's Doctrine reveals it.

That the "cult of the Virgin" built their religious opera on PETER, is curious, as Jesus built the gentile Body of Christ on Paul's Doctrine, as it came from Jesus, through Paul.

Paul and Peter were both apostles. Jesus is the apostle of our confession.

"and someone says...well, all the apostles are the same".

No, they are not.. except for the Title.

Why? Because you say so? You derive your truth from Jesus just as Paul and Peter did. If you veer off the path nobody should listen to you. If I veer off the path, nobody should listen to me.

We need to stay within the borders that God has given us. And the border is Jesus--not Paul or Peter.

They help, but they are not the source of our spirituality. Our New Nature comes from following God--not from following apostolic doctrine. The doctrine is important to guide us, yes. But the spirituality itself comes, as you know, from God and from Christ. I should think we agree on this?

 

[Behold]

That's your impression, and I understand that. I, however, see Jesus' statements to Nicodemus as direct, on target, and connecting.

Jesus was speaking about a Spiritual Birth, to an Unsaved Jew, who had no spiritual birth yet.
Jesus had not died on the Cross yet, so that this unsaved Jew could receive the Sacrifice of Jesus for His sin.

NicoD didnt understand any of that, yet, as it was not available yet, and that is why NicoD thought that Jesus "wants me to get back inside my mother, as a grown man, and come out AGAIN"....
However.....Jesus was not talking about that type of earthly "born by water".

So, why is this in the NT?

Its for "later"..... when the Bible was completed.., most of all.
Jesus was talking to the JEW,......... for all of US........ who would need to understand how to be "born again".

Jesus does this a lot.
He's talking to a person, but its really prophetic and for "later" revelation.

Like. Matt 24, where Jesus is talking to them about the "Abomination of Desolation".....that happens during the 2nd part of the 7 yr Trib, that is the GRT Trib........as that is Jesus describing the Anti-Christ, Satan empowered, who is proclaiming his DEITY on Earth.

Jesus was talking to US, the born again Church.... when He was explaining that to the Apostles, in Matt.

I don't understand? At what Paul are you speaking of Jesus giving him a revelation? Jesus revealed himself to Paul *before* he was Born Again, and he revealed himself to him *after* he was Born Again, as well.

Well, When Jesus told Paul.... "it is hard to kick against the pricks"....... (Conscience).

Then Paul saw the LIGHT Of God's Glory... and was blind for 3 days...and then the "scales fell off Paul's Eyes"..

Thats not fish scales.....that is..>"Paul sitting there, blind, trying to understand what is happening, and finally did.... and those "scales" are a analogy, a symbol of... "debating the topic" "who IS this JESUS">.... and when Paul figured it out... The SCALES said...."IM A BELIEVER IN YESHUA".

Later, after Jesus ascended back in to Heaven... He took Paul into the Desert for 3 yrs, (and no other Apostle)..... and gave PAUL "The Gospel" and all the Church Doctrine".
Paul said that He received all this REVELATION from "NO MAN".. and stated that it came from Jesus, personally.

This is why Paul says that "the Gospel of the Grace of God.""....is 'MY Gospel"....as He is defining it as "Jesus gave this to ME"..
Paul says this 3x = '"MY Gospel".

In Acts 15, Paul gave it to all the Apostles.

And you can read in Acts 10, that Peter didnt know it, as He didnt even know that GENTILES could be saved, so obviously He didnt have Paul's Gospel in Acts 2:38. or Acts 10.

What Jesus said to Nicodemus is what God was saying to Jews while they were still under the Law.

Jesus is talking about being Born again. And that is talking to UNBELIEVERS.

Later Jesus said.>"you MUST be born again"....

Jews //// Gentiles...... everyone.

Otherwise, you die and go to Hell.

Paul merely reflected Jesus. We are to follow Jesus--not Paul.

Paul's doctrine came from Jesus.

The very Gospel that we are to preach, is Paul's Gospel, that Jesus gave Him.
This is why if you dont preach Paul's Gospel, you are a Galatians 1:8. (Paul Teaches).

And the NT teaches us to follow Paul....in lifestyle, and in Doctrine that we learn, from Paul's Epistles.

1 Cor 11:1.. says to Follow Him, .....it does not mean to worship Him.

Jesus is our SAVIOR and LORD and KING....>Paul is our Teacher, and the Holy Spirit is the REVEALER of the "word of God" (Paul's Church Doctrine), and of course all the rest.

That verse means to understand that the reason He wrote most of the Epistles, and all the Church Doctrine, is why we are to do what that verse says.

Paul is purely an example and helped lay the foundation for Christian teaching.

Paul created Contemporary Christianity, as we are to do it, as a lifestyle and as a ministry.
He built churches, He is the Missionary to everywhere he went, and he went long distances.
His LETTERS, became ""Church Doctrine.""
Peter said the same of Paul's letters....>Peter said that Paul's letters, are "Scripture"..

See that? That is one of the original 12 apostles, stating that Paul's Letters are "SCRIPTURE"......equal to the Torah.

And in both testaments the People of God were to put on the Divine nature,

Sin separates us from God, so that is why you can't have any nature except the fallen nature, or the sin nature or the "Adamic Nature"

To Put on God's Nature, is impossible, if you have sin.. To put on God's Nature you have to be Joined to God , by Spiritual Birth, as "born again".

So, once your sin is forgiven, then God can birth you spiritually into Himself, as "Born again".. a "new Creation" "In Christ"

And then Peter teaches, you are a part of the Divine Nature... 2 Peter 1:4

You have to be BORN AGAIN, to gain access to God's Spirit and that is where you partake of the Nature of God, that is the Divine Nature.

Unbelievers can't have that, until they are Born again.

The reason that an unbeliever dies and meets God as Eternal JUDGE< and the Born again meets God as "Abba" Father" is because something eternal in the SPIRIT, has occurred, to only the Believers.

Paul and Peter were both apostles. Jesus is the apostle of our confession.

Paul is a specific apostle.
He's the only one of these..

A.) ""Apostle to the Gentile"", and no other Apostle was Chosen by Christ to be that one...

We, the born again Church, are in "the time of the Gentiles"'....... and Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles", and that is why His Doctrine is "church" doctrine, as most of the Body of Christ, are GENTILES.....not Jews.
Right now, and since the Cross was Raised, and until the Trib starts, God is dealing specifically with ""the time of the Gentiles".

When God is dealing specifically again with the JEW< as God did in the OT, then the TRIBULATION has began, and the "time of the Gentiles" has ended.

Paul, is the ONLY "Apostle to the Gentiles" and that is why you find He has written most of the Epistles that you find in a NT.

Why? Because you say so? You derive your truth from Jesus just as Paul and Peter did.

Why?

Its because i teach only "Pauline Theology".

Jesus gave this to Paul, Paul gave this to the "Body of Christ".

Its "church doctrine"'....

If you veer off the path nobody

Never happen.

First let me tell you that i have a "real" Ministry"...
Im on Forums because i hate the Devil and his Theology... And its because i can help some, who can be helped, so, i work hard on Forums to try to kick down walls of deception for the "some" who can be reached.
The others, have been reached, and so they read what i write and they understand it perfectly.
The rest are not born again, and just bark and hate and try to get in the way..
And sometimes one of them comes to Jesus, because they read where i posted Paul's Gospels and ..........

If you are on "forums" for the last decade + , then you'd find me teaching Paul's Doctrine, same as im doing for you, and same as i have done for the 4 yrs im on this Forum, in every Post and Thread... unless the topic is not "bible stuff" related.

Im not going anywhere else, as the NT does not allow it.

If you were in my Classes, then you'd really hear Paul's Theology.
Any real "teacher" will teach "Church Doctrine" and all this came from Paul., not 'church fathers' "or Spurgeon" and not "Calvin", and not any "Pope".

A few examples...

9 Spiritual Gifts = Paul's Teaching

How to build a Church = Paul epistle

How to Give Money, that is not "tithe" = Paul's epistle

How to deal with everything related to personal life and Ministry, as the NT teaches..... = Paul Epistle

Every read Titus and Timothy? = Those are Paul's Epistles... those are PAUL's Converts.

Having issues with your wife, or children? See Paul's Epistle.

Want to know the TRUE Gospel ? = Paul's Gospel

Want to know if you can eat a certain food? = Paul epistle

Want to deal with Heretics on Forums. ??? OR if they come to your church teaching Hyper Calvinism, or Mary Flew to Heaven, or So did the Prophet Muhammed...... Paul explains what you do with the people who follow Joseph Smith, and Mary Baker Eddy

You read PAUL's epistles as He teaches all of that, and so much more.

Do you have an upset stomach, and can't sleep? See PAUL's Epistles, and He'll tell you what to do.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Heb 4.6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I would just point out something very interesting, very exciting, in this that touched brother Watchman Nee many years ago, which then touched me, as well. The division of soul and spirit lit up for Brother Nee, who saw that in our soul, ie in our mind, will, and emotions, we can do things that are purely "works," as opposed to putting on a new nature, which derives from Christ. We can do all kinds of good things, in apparent obedience to God's word, but if this does not translate into a new nature, modelled after our Creator, then it is empty and nothing more than perfunctory performance art.

Our soul, then, can remain religious and yet without the full knowledge of Christ. We can be emotional over our concern for someone, we can be emotional in spiritual worship, we can fight for a good cause, and we can even understand right and wrong. But if we don't know who God is in the sense of who He wants us to be like, then our soul indulges in a form of vanity.

In that case, the soul misses that which truly saves us--a new nature given to us by Christ. The spirit should know what Christ's nature is, and what new nature it is that we should put on. The word of God detects this essential difference between soul and spirit. The soul needs to be under the supervision of the spirit when it perceives our need to put on the nature of Christ--not just the works of Christ.

Some say Salvation simply results from believing in NT redemption, as opposed to the Law, which was ritualistic and void of changing Israel. This is hostile towards Israel and a form of antinomianism. Yes, Israel as a whole failed over time, but that doesn't mean the word of God under the Law failed!

In reality, the Law was God's word, as much as the New Covenant is God's word. And the Law was designed not just to get Israel to perform externally, but also to worship God internally through conformity to God's nature. The Law was designed, as in everything else, to make Israel put on a new nature patterned after God Himself.

Heb 3.7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Please note: God used the wilderness sufferings and deprivation to allow Israel's external circumstances and evident signs of God's help to bring them into a fuller knowledge of who God is, or what HIs nature is. It was *testing,* pure and simple. It was to expose the difference between soul and spirit, between external obedience and inward spiritual change. And that was called "today" in that day, ie in the time of the Law. They could *know God* in their own day! That's why Jesus told Nicodemus, while they were still under the Law, that he should've known, as Israel's teacher, what being "Born Again" meant. It was Israel's need to put on a new spiritual nature.

So God has always used His word to bring change to people, to encourage them to do right, but also to come to a full knowledge of His nature so that they may convert completely from their old independent nature to a new nature operating in partnership with God.

God's word is operating in our lives all the time. We just need to become aware of it. It's the job of Christians to make people aware of this, since they should already have that experience. They should be sharing with the ignorant should they be even remotely interested. If they are not interested, their guilt is on themselves. But we need to always make ourselves available to God's word, since we have put on God's nature and actually have chosen to live by His word.

Good post Randy. What I would like to add is I see two different uses for the words soul and flesh in the New Testament.

When God breathed life into Adam, Adam became a living soul or person who also had a soul. He was made of flesh and bones, but Paul then says in Romans 8:9 that we are not in the flesh. That flesh is referring to the carnal sinful nature all mankind received after the fall.

Every church I visit, the same problem in their doctrine appears evident. The Calvinistic heretical doctrine based on the "T" in T.U.L.I.P. seems to be in all churches. Even churches that do not like John Calvin and the rest of the letters! And that belief is that we all have a sin nature we battle with even after becoming born again and filled with the Spirit! What do you say, @Randy Kluth and @Behold? Do we have a sin nature?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Good post Randy. What I would like to add is I see two different uses for the words soul and flesh in the New Testament.

When God breathed life into Adam, Adam became a living soul or person who also had a soul. He was made of flesh and bones, but Paul then says in Romans 8:9 that we are not in the flesh. That flesh is referring to the carnal sinful nature all mankind received after the fall.

Every church I visit, the same problem in their doctrine appears evident. The Calvinistic heretical doctrine based on the "T" in T.U.L.I.P. seems to be in all churches. Even churches that do not like John Calvin and the rest of the letters! And that belief is that we all have a sin nature we battle with even after becoming born again and filled with the Spirit! What do you say, @Randy Kluth and @Behold? Do we have a sin nature?

Thank you 1C Lady. I do believe we've all been infected with a *spiritual* Sin Nature. Sin is not a part of our DNA, although Sin, as a spiritual disease, does affect us physically. Being a spiritual disease Sin is something that infects our spiritual being, ie our soul, in such a way that we gravitate away from God's word, and feel repulsed by it to some degree. We don't want to be under the authority of God's word until we are tempered, or softened, by God's help.

But I do agree with you that the idea of Total Depravity is wrong, that it is wrong to believe we cannot exercise Free Will in responding to God's offer of Salvation or do anything that God says to us. We were made to freely serve God, or not. I don't go as far as you calling Calvin or his beliefs "heretical," but I do agree that it is a serious problem and is rampant in the Church. Thank you.

Yes, the "flesh" is a shortcut term Paul uses to refer to our sinful nature. Our bodies and our minds are heavily influenced by the spiritual disease called "Sin" which somehow resides within our souls. So the "flesh" refers to our physical appetites that run counter to God's word and nature. At least, this is how I see it. Thanks for asking.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thank you 1C Lady. I do believe we've all been infected with a *spiritual* Sin Nature. Sin is not a part of our DNA, although Sin, as a spiritual disease, does affect us physically. Being a spiritual disease Sin is something that infects our spiritual being, ie our soul, in such a way that we gravitate away from God's word, and feel repulsed by it to some degree. We don't want to be under the authority of God's word until we are tempered, or softened, by God's help.

But I do agree with you that the idea of Total Depravity is wrong, that it is wrong to believe we cannot exercise Free Will in responding to God's offer of Salvation or do anything that God says to us. We were made to freely serve God, or not. I don't go as far as you calling Calvin or his beliefs "heretical," but I do agree that it is a serious problem and is rampant in the Church. Thank you.

Yes, the "flesh" is a shortcut term Paul uses to refer to our sinful nature. Our bodies and our minds are heavily influenced by the spiritual disease called "Sin" which somehow resides within our souls. So the "flesh" refers to our physical appetites that run counter to God's word and nature. At least, this is how I see it. Thanks for asking.

How do you interpret Romans 8:9? Do you believe we can go in and out of the Spirit?

 

[Behold]

Do we have a sin nature?

"The old man of sin was crucified with Christ".

"reckon it dead".

The born again is now become a "New Creation In Christ'.., having been made a partaker of God's Spirit, that is the "Son/Daughter" "in Christ".... born again.

What isn't resolved when we become "in Christ"., and "One with God"? ????

= Our Mind isn't resolved., and it can become this..
= Paul teaches...this can happen to a CHRISTian.. = "WHO has bewitched you, that you no longer obey the Truth"... "you are now in the FLESH"...... = "Fallen From Grace".

Notice that Paul says the deception is a "bewitching".. .Its a spell-binding... is a spiritual power that "blinds the MIND", but does not affect the Born again Spirit.

How does this happen to the MIND of a Born again Believer?

A.) Hebrews 13:9...... "doctrines of Devils"......Like Calvinism, or Catholicism, or Mormonism... JW... .Scientology, ISLAM..

See all thos "ISM"s" and some that aren't... = they are "spiritual mind blinding THEOLOGY"., and they are created by a PERSON, who was used in a demonic way to create a "doctrine .. a theology, of DEVILs".

This is the= "WHO".. .has bewitched you."" ?......that Paul is referring to...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"The old man of sin was crucified with Christ".

"reckon it dead".

The born again is now become a "New Creation In Christ'.., having been made a partaker of God's Spirit, that is the "Son/Daughter" "in Christ".... born again.

What isn't resolved when we become "in Christ"., and "One with God"? ????

= Our Mind isn't resolved., and it can become this..
= Paul teaches...this can happen to a CHRISTian.. = "WHO has bewitched you, that you no longer obey the Truth"... "you are now in the FLESH"...... = "Fallen From Grace".

Notice that Paul says the deception is a "bewitching".. .Its a spell-binding... is a spiritual power that "blinds the MIND", but does not affect the Born again Spirit.

How does this happen to the MIND of a Born again Believer?

A.) Hebrews 13:9...... "doctrines of Devils"......Like Calvinism, or Catholicism, or Mormonism... JW... .Scientology, ISLAM..

See all thos "ISM"s" and some that aren't... = they are "spiritual mind blinding THEOLOGY"., and they are created by a PERSON, who was used in a demonic way to create a "doctrine .. a theology, of DEVILs".

This is the= "WHO".. .has bewitched you."" ?......that Paul is referring to...

Yes, we still have free will and are able to quench the Spirit. The key is abiding in Christ for both freedom from mortal sin and maturing of the fruit of the Spirit. How to not become caught up in heresies is knowing the Word of God.

 

[Behold]

Yes, we still have free will and are able to quench the Spirit.

Well, once you become the "Temple of the Holy Spirit", which is to be joined to God = Spiritually, you can't Quench that, as that is a BIRTH in the Spirit.
You can't "quench" being born again, as its already completed and its eternal.

What you can "quench" ..is being led of the Spirit..
You can Quench HEARING the Spirit.
You can QUENCH being able to ever understand the word of God ever again, because you stopped being able to hear from God, because the person became so deceived, so "Fallen from Grace". so "in the Flesh".... that all they can hear is their own mind and the theology that separated their inner hearing from God's revealing, and now the voices they hear are demonic, or their own.

This is why you have cult people, who sound "crazy".... jumping up and down, demanding that everyone knows that they are led of the spirit, and yet what they are teaching is not of God.

See that one?
That one is a Mormon, or a Catholic, or a CULT person, deceived, mind blinded... and they do hear voices, and they do get "leading" and inner compulsions, but its not of God.

What deceived people dont realize.. what most Christians dont KNOW.... is that the Devil can counterfeit the holy spirit, and the gifts of the spirit.


When the Anti-Christ arrives, the world is going to think He is The CHRIST...
He'll be doing signs and wonders.
He's doing them now....through his 'MINISTERS">...

There are deceived believers who read......>"All power is given to me, in heaven and on earth", Jesus said.

But Jesus didnt say..>"and Satan is powerless now"..

The Devil is a counterfeiter.. He is a FAKE of the REAL.. He can fake signs, wonders, and his ministers can do it.

"doctrines of Devils", are not obvious, because they are very clever FAKES.... they mix truth and error together, and that is the deception, and because we are dealing in the Spiritual Realm.. these teachings, are like witchcraft, they have DECEIVING power to take over your MIND, but not your Spirit.

The key is abiding in Christ for both freedom from mortal sin

"mortal sin" is not found in a NT.

That phrase is "Catholic nonsense", and best to be avoided.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What deceived people dont realize.. what most Christians dont KNOW.... is that the Devil can counterfeit the holy spirit, and the gifts of the spirit.

In all our conversations and debates I don't think we've ever discussed if you have been given any supernatural gifts of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues, or supernatural interpretation of tongues. What gifts do you have seeing as we all have at least one.

"mortal sin" is not found in a NT.

That phrase is "Catholic nonsense", and best to be avoided.

Mortal sins are in the NT as sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. There is a false teaching that sins unto death are sins that unsaved folks commit who are going to hell. Look at Revelation 3:1-5 about the Protestant Reformation.

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

God has shown me that Protestants have become undiscerning to the Old Testament's difference in this important doctrine that Catholics got right and Protestants let die. Numbers 15:22-36. The mortal and venial distinctions are correct that you call nonsense. Calvinists just say, "sin is sin." Do you also?

 

[Behold]

In all our conversations and debates I don't think we've ever discussed if you have been given any supernatural gifts of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues, or supernatural interpretation of tongues. What gifts do you have seeing as we all have at least one.

Paul teaches that we are to desire the "best" gifts.

So, he organizes them as best to least.

#9 is the least, (Tongues)..

I wanted others...

So, mine are #1, #2, #7

I teach #7, more than anything else on Forums.

Mortal sins are in the NT as sins unto death.

"""""God hath made Jesus to BE.. SIN... FOR.. .US"....so that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him""""..

If the person is born again, then Jesus has all their sin, and they are Become "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

There is no sin found there., and all CHRISTians are "in Christ".

The born again are "made righteous", and there is no sin found there.

If you have, sin, then you are not born again., yet.

for I have not found your works perfect before God.

Jesus is Salvation.

We do not "work" or "do works" to have Jesus as our Salvation.

Salvation is a Gift...."The Gift of Salvation",.. . and you dont "work" for a "GIFT".

Salvation is "to them that WORKETH NOT... but BELEIVETH in God who JUSTIFIES the UNGodly .. their FAITH is counted by God as Righteousness"..

Its "Grace Through Faith"...>not "Works to stay saved"..

Catholics got right

= Nothing.

Did Mary fly to Heaven?
Is Mary a "co-author of Salvation"?

Are you "born again BY Water"?

The mortal and venial distinctions are correct that you call nonsense. Calvinists just say, "sin is sin."

Unbelievers dies in their Sin... John 8:24

Christians Die "IN Christ"... "Born again".. "seated in Heavenly Places".. "One with God".. "The Temple of the Holy Spirit, an "Heir of God:" and a "Joint heir with Jesus".

Christians Have Eternal life, and always will.

Do you also?

Jesus said that some sins are greater then others.

But the Blood of Jesus is this.. FOREVER...

A.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME...... ETERNAL SACRIFICE.....For SIN"...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul teaches that we are to desire the "best" gifts.

So, he organizes them as best to least.

#9 is the least, (Tongues)..

I wanted others...

So, mine are #1, #2, #7

I teach #7, more than anything else on Forums.

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

Did I count right?

If discerning of spirits is your main gift how does that manifest?

"""""God hath made Jesus to BE.. SIN... FOR.. .US"....so that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him""""..

If the person is born again, then Jesus has all their sin, and they are Become "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

There is no sin found there., and all CHRISTians are "in Christ".

The born again are "made righteous", and there is no sin found there.

If you have, sin, then you are not born again., yet.

Do you not see a difference between murder and lack of self-control when driving over the speed limit? Or between stealing and saying a bad word when you accidentally hit your thumb with a hammer?

Jesus is Salvation.

We do not "work" or "do works" to have Jesus as our Salvation.

Salvation is a Gift...."The Gift of Salvation",.. . and you dont "work" for a "GIFT".

Salvation is "to them that WORKETH NOT... but BELEIVETH in God who JUSTIFIES the UNGodly .. their FAITH is counted by God as Righteousness"..

Its "Grace Through Faith"...>not "Works to stay saved"..

Seeing as baptism in water is a work, do you refrain from being obedient to God?

= Nothing.

Did Mary fly to Heaven?
Is Mary a "co-author of Salvation"?

Are you "born again BY Water"?

None of the Catholic's "holy traditions" are scriptural, but mortal sins vs. venial sins is.

Unbelievers dies in their Sin... John 8:24

Christians Die "IN Christ"... "Born again".. "seated in Heavenly Places".. "One with God".. "The Temple of the Holy Spirit, an "Heir of God:" and a "Joint heir with Jesus".

Christians Have Eternal life, and always will.

"Sin is sin" is a completely a different subject. Are you avoiding the question?

What is sin? Do Christians commit no sin at all when they are born again of the Spirit?

Jesus said that some sins are greater then others.

But the Blood of Jesus is this.. FOREVER...

A.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME...... ETERNAL SACRIFICE.....For SIN"...

Can a born again of the Spirit Christian commit willful murder or adultery or theft?

Can a born again of the Spirit Christian be selfish? Or careless?

 

[Behold]

If discerning of spirits is your main gift how does that manifest?

Its not my main gift.

#1 is the main gift.. and that is required if a person is called to Preach or Teach.

Im an Evangelist with a Teaching Gift... so, my teaching is going to be very Evangelistic.. Its going to be forceful, clear as a bell, "plain talk".. and its going to be all about.... Paul's Doctrine and The Cross.
I can "shift into christianese overdrive" and sound like something else.....but that is not what helps people.
I dont need to sound like i have more Degrees then a Thermometer... .. i need to get to the Theological and Spiritual CORE and bring you there., so that God can take it from there.

I can function as a Pastor, or Music Minister, or Deacon... but my anointing is much more aggressive.
Pastors Hug Sheep.
Evangelists push and redirect and inspire.

I tell you a fact.
There are lots of people who have "issues" with "his TONE".. but they read what i write.
Many many people print out my Threads, and sometimes my posts, and study them with their bible open.
People use my Threads or my Posts as their sunday school lesson, or sermon.
I "heard myself" being taught many times by forum members, and that is "Glory to God" as all i did was show up and write and tell the truth.

All my Students "sound like me", once they are in my Classes, and that is exactly right.

see, in the KOG...

Preachers hatch preachers.
Teachers hatch Teachers
Evangelists hate Evangelists.
Missionaries hate missionaries.

My younger Brother is a 30 Yr Missionary to the Ukraine.
He's built 2 or 3 Churches there, in Odessa.. He and his Wife and 3 girls are all Missionaries..
Now its just Him and His wife, as the 3 Daughters are now married and are in the States, working.

He was sitting in a Church, on a Sunday morning, about 30 yrs ago.. not married, and they had a "special guest " that morning.

"Hello... im a Missionary and im going to talk to you today, ...
When that service ended, God had called my Brother into the Mission Field.. and 30 yrs later, He's still there, dodging Putin's bombs, and Zelinskyy's Nazi Thugs..
He met His wife on the Mission Field. They had all their babies on the Mission field.
He is now the Director of "Missions" for the "Mission To the World"... Presbyterian Denomination.
At that time, 30 yrs ago, he was making $100,000 a yr, as a manager for Hewlett-Packard (HP).
He gave his Resignation,.....just walked away from all that money...and 30 yrs ago, '$100,000 USD, a year, was a good bit of money.

God said "be a missionary".. = ."yes Father"... "send me".

Now he is still in the Foreign Fields and directs the Denominations Missions Home outreach that is located in the States.

ok then....

So regarding the "discernment"......One way its helpful to me on a Forum...... is....I can hear someone's theology, their belief system, and know what is wrong within their Theological understanding.

99% of the time, their issue isn't that they are not sincere ..
See, Deception is to believe what isn't true...and the person BELIEVES IT...
Catholics BELIEVE that Mary flew to Heaven, and never died.
Nazarenes believe that "there is a 2nd Work of Grace" and that you have to work to stay saved...

So there are many "beliefs" out there, yet only one Paul the Apostle teaching the Church Doctrine.

"who is that"?.. "Paul said what"... "Paul said to be a follower of Him, in Doctrine and lifestyle".....but we have PETER.. We have "church fathers"" we have our opinions....

Uh huh...
I know.

So, That's the issue ..
Most dont know to go to Paul , so, they went everywhere else and their belief system is everything else.

"Well i use to be a mormon, but then i was an assembly of God, just before i became a Catholic, and now im a Christian scientist.. ""

"tomorrow.......only God knows, as i certainly have no idea".....they say.

Often i can know what denomination caused them to believe wrong, just by hearing them talk about their obsession.
See, most Christians and fake Christians, who are religious but lost, are "Hung up" on one or 2, circular reasoning thought processes.
So, i hear them and then i know them, from the first post they ever sent to me.

Calvinism or the TULIP doctrine, .. causes people to see "predestined" or "elect" in many verses that dont have those words in them, but the deceived SEE THEM there.....as that is What Calvinism does to you.
Its a doctrine of devils and it projects deep into your mind, this idea of "predestined", and then the entire NT, become filtered through that... word.
Salvation.. Being born again.....who can go to heaven, who goes to hell.......it all becomes one big "PREDESTINED"< circular reasoning mind blindness, and its difficult to escape it, but its not impossible.

The NT refers to these mind chains as mental "STRONG HOLDS".. and they are very powerful.

Now....How does it help me on a Forum to be able to discern what people are thinking, as their Theology?

Well, on a Forum, i can "highlight" false theology, and fake theologians., for example.

I can expose a "Dark Light". Luke 11:35
So how does that Help?
It helps Mods, who are not really grounded in what they need to know.....to become more aware that Forums become "a nest of Heretics" unless some LIGHT is being shined on them that causes them to not want to hang around and keep trying to destroy the faith of real believers...

The Gift helps New Believers, by being taught what is "out there and will get you"... so "stay away from THIS"....

It Helps Christians who are just wanting to chat about anything but Christianity, because it forces them to see what they've never been taught that could have made a real difference in their Walk of Faith......and its not too late.

 

[Behold]

@1stCenturyLady

Do you not see a difference between murder and lack of self-control when driving over the speed limit? Or between stealing and saying a bad word when you accidentally hit your thumb with a hammer?

Jesus said that some sins are greater.

But all sin is forgiven once God imputs the righteousness of Christ to the BELIEVER.
There is no SIN, that the Blood of Christ has not dealt with, regarding the born again.... 2000 yrs ago.
And the unpardonable sin... is the sin of dying in unbelief never born again, so, the Born again is not that one.. they can't commit that one.

Seeing as baptism in water is a work, do you refrain from being obedient to God?

I was water Baptized 11 yrs after i was born again.
I was called into the Ministry, about 5 yrs before i was water baptized.

If you come to Israel, and im there at that time, we can go to the Sea Of Galilee, and i can water baptize you again, in the Sea of Galilee.
God wont mind, as it didnt save you to begin with... but at least you could tell people...>"guess where i was water baptized".

Do you recall that before Jesus begin His earthly ministry, all those Apostles, knew who John the Baptist was.. and some of them, probably let Him water baptize them.
And it didnt save them, and it didnt wash away their sin.. because "without the shedding of Blood", your sin is still not forgiven.

See The Cross of Christ, for FORGIVENESS of ALL SIN.... that Lasts for as LONG as GOD Lives.

God's Salvation is created so that once you receive it by Faith....you can't do to yourself again, what Adam did to you.

None of the Catholic's "holy traditions" are scriptural, but mortal sins vs. venial sins is.

Catholics created those.

God is not a Catholic.

Do Christians commit no sin at all when they are born again of the Spirit?

The Spirit that is born again, is the Real Christian, not your body or your mind.
So, where is your born again Spirit?
Its "one with God".. and there is no sin found there.

So, here is the thing..

Its the LAW that defines sin....and that includes the 10 commandments.

So, if there is no LAW, then there is no way your behavior can be defined as "sinful"....

"where there is no LAW... there is no TRANSGRESSION, (Sin)>"""""

Notice.,,,

The born again..>>"Are not under the Law, but under Grace".

Jesus is "The END OF THE LAW... for righteousness, to everyone who is born again".

Can a born again of the Spirit Christian commit willful murder or adultery or theft?

Every deed we decide to do is willfully committed as its based on Free Will Choice.

Now, is that deed, if its carnal... held against the Believer in Eternity?
No.
And that is because "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN".

So what happens, if you download porn, or cheat on your taxes, or "call in sick to work" when you're not sick.

A.) "you reap what you sow"......= You get fired. You become a porn addict, you go to Jail for cheating on your taxes.

But in Eternity, all is resolved, already, because the Blood of Jesus is "where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

WE the born again, dont have license to live carnally, but we do have Grace that is eternal redemption that is "without repentance".


What can you LOSE, if you are a Born again, ... carnal Christian.

AA.) Everything except for your Salvation.

You can lose your health, family, marriage, money, status, church, .. you can lose your mind and your life.

So, there is a LOT TO LOSE< if a Believer, decides to "go back into the world" as Demas did.

But, Heaven once Gained, is not lost again.
The Blood of Jesus is the reason why.

Can a born again of the Spirit Christian be selfish? Or careless?

Ive never met a 100% , all the time... 24/7..... perfect Christian., regarding their behavior.
This does not exist.

Ive had people on forums, who first meet me, and they might say that im a Gnostic, .. They lie about me. They try to get me banned.
They PM each other...>"lets keep on reporting behold, until the Mods get tired of US, and then they ban HIM to make US shut up".
If that does not happen....then Later, they listen., and learn., and Grow spiritually, and Theologically.
Same Believers.
So, each of us, is a work in progress, regarding our emotions and behavior.

But all Believers can become this.> """"as many as be Perfect"""", Paul teaches, and that is regarding revelation Knowledge of the Bible and of the Spiritual realm.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus said that some sins are greater.

But all sin is forgiven once God imputs the righteousness of Christ to the BELIEVER.
There is no SIN, that the Blood of Christ has not dealt with, regarding the born again.... 2000 yrs ago.
And the unpardonable sin... is the sin of dying in unbelief never born again, so, the Born again is not that one.. they can't commit that one.

Can you spend a minute looking up that verse for me. I would like to have it.

I was water Baptized 11 yrs after i was born again.
I was called into the Ministry, about 5 yrs before i was water baptized.

If you come to Israel, and im there at that time, we can go to the Sea Of Galilee, and i can water baptize you again, in the Sea of Galilee.
God wont mind, as it didnt save you to begin with... but at least you could tell people...>"guess where i was water baptized".

Do you recall that before Jesus begin His earthly ministry, all those Apostles, knew who John the Baptist was.. and some of them, probably let Him water baptize them.
And it didnt save them, and it didnt wash away their sin.. because "without the shedding of Blood", your sin is still not forgiven.

See The Cross of Christ, for FORGIVENESS of ALL SIN.... that Lasts for as LONG as GOD Lives.

God's Salvation is created so that once you receive it by Faith....you can't do to yourself again, what Adam did to you.

I was baptized 3 times before I was born again of the Spirit. Then a couple months later He spoke to me and told me, "Now, get water baptized."

Catholics created those.

A mortal wound would be a wound that caused their death. So that is accurate that the sins unto death are mortal sins. The lesser sins from immature fruit of the Spirit are sins not unto death. I looked up "venial" and the definition is pardonable, permissible, forgivable, justifiable, excusable and minor. These definitions are exactly how I see the difference. But you can't see that they don't come even close to murder, theft, or adultery? The Catholics are correct on this difference, and whats more, it is Scriptural in both Testaments. Calvinists saying that there is no difference, that "sin is sin" is just plain ignorance, and a lack of knowing and understanding the Bible.

The Spirit that is born again, is the Real Christian, not your body or your mind.
So, where is your born again Spirit?
Its "one with God".. and there is no sin found there.

So, here is the thing..

Its the LAW that defines sin....and that includes the 10 commandments.

So, if there is no LAW, then there is no way your behavior can be defined as "sinful"....

"where there is no LAW... there is no TRANSGRESSION, (Sin)>"""""

Notice.,,,

The born again..>>"Are not under the Law, but under Grace".

Jesus is "The END OF THE LAW... for righteousness, to everyone who is born again".

Paul did not say that not being under the law excuses all acts of lawlessness. He said and meant that Christians are not under the written law because the higher law is written on our heart, not engraved on stone. We naturally with our new cleansed nature establish the law. In other words, we perfect the law like Jesus. Romans 3:31 "31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

Every deed we decide to do is willfully committed as its based on Free Will Choice.

Now, is that deed, if its carnal... held against the Believer in Eternity?
No.
And that is because "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN".

So what happens, if you download porn, or cheat on your taxes, or "call in sick to work" when you're not sick.

A.) "you reap what you sow"......= You get fired. You become a porn addict, you go to Jail for cheating on your taxes.

But in Eternity, all is resolved, already, because the Blood of Jesus is "where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

WE the born again, dont have license to live carnally, but we do have Grace that is eternal redemption that is "without repentance".


What can you LOSE, if you are a Born again, ... carnal Christian.

AA.) Everything except for your Salvation.

You can lose your health, family, marriage, money, status, church, .. you can lose your mind and your life.

So, there is a LOT TO LOSE< if a Believer, decides to "go back into the world" as Demas did.

But, Heaven once Gained, is not lost again.
The Blood of Jesus is the reason why.

This is where we part ways. It seems you believe the grace of God is a covering up of sins committed. No! It is the power of God given to us to strengthen us to first have no desire to commit willful sins of lawlessness, and fruit by fruit mature all the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus does it all as long as we abide in Him.

Acts 20:24b "to testify to the gospel of the grace of God."
Romans 1:16a "the gospel of Christ is the power of God."

Scripturally the grace of God is the POWER of God. Grace is NOT unmerited favor as in Calvinism.

Remember what Jesus said about the first Reformationists. "you have a name (or reputation) that you (your doctrine) is alive, but it is DEAD."

Ive never met a 100% , all the time... 24/7..... perfect Christian., regarding their behavior.
This does not exist.

Ive had people on forums, who first meet me, and they might say that im a Gnostic, .. They lie about me. They try to get me banned.
They PM each other...>"lets keep on reporting behold, until the Mods get tired of US, and then they ban HIM to make US shut up".
If that does not happen....then Later, they listen., and learn., and Grow spiritually, and Theologically.
Same Believers.
So, each of us, is a work in progress, regarding our emotions and behavior.

But all Believers can become this.> """"as many as be Perfect"""", Paul teaches, and that is regarding revelation Knowledge of the Bible and of the Spiritual realm.

So which is it? It doesn't exist? Or the last line "But all Believers can become this"? It is the latter. The first is heresy. Jesus said, you shall be made perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect." This perfection is the finished work of Jesus as the Author and Finisher of our faith. And that is NOT only after death. Another heresy of Calvin.