The messiah didn't come yet.

[Eliyahu613]

What proof do I have

What proof do you have that he is not?

Bs"d

Why the servant in Isaiah 53 cannot be the Christian messiah:

“Behold, my servant shall act wisely;” You believe this is JC. You believe JC is God. So God is His own servant?


When God speaks about "His servant", is God then speaking about Himself or about somebody else?

Hint: A three year old can come up with the right answer.


“his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind”

When did that happen to JC?


“a man of sorrows, and acquainted with sickness” When exactly was JC sick?


“Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”

Wasn’t JC a very popular preacher who entered Jerusalem amongst a big crowd of followers?


“He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth;”

He didn’t open his mouth? "When Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. "Is this the way you answer the high priest?" he demanded. "If I said something wrong," Jesus replied, "testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?" John 18:22


When he was hanging at the cross he accused God, that is himself; he cried out: “Why did I forsake myself?”

“At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" Mark 15:34

He didn’t open his mouth?


“for the transgression of my people the plague was upon them”

This is a very clear proof it speaks about the Jewish people being punished for their own sins. “The plague was upon THEM”. Plural. So this is not about a singular person, so this is not about the messiah.

The Hebrew word translated as “upon them” is “lamo” The same word “lamo” is also used in Genesis 9:26-27: “God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be THEIR servant."

Deut 32:32; “and THEIR clusters are bitter.” Literally: “For them are bitter clusters.”

Deut 32: 35 “and their destiny will overtake THEM”

Deut 33:2; “"The LORD came from Sinai and dawned OVER THEM from Seir;”

The word “lamo” which means “for them” or “upon them” is also used in Isaiah 16:4, 26:14+16, 35:8, Psalm 119:165.

Some translations, realizing they cannot get around the plural, translate it as: “for the transgression of my people, TO WHOM the stroke was due?” Like this it is translated by the NASB, AMP, ASV, and in the footnote of the NIV.

But this is a very forced translation. There is nothing “due” in verse 8.



“He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence”

Done no violence? “So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.” John 2:15

A grave with the wicked? "When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathe'a, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. And Joseph took the body, and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud, and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock; and he rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb, and departed " Matt 27:57-60

He was in the tomb of a righteous follower of his, and not in the grave with the wicked.



“And with the rich in his death” The Hebrew word for “death” is written in the plural, again indicating it does not speak about a singular person. Unless of course Christianity wants to say that their god died several times. If you say this talks about a whole people, then there is no problem.

But, if you want to say this speaks about the messiah, then you are in trouble.

And of course, this word is mistranslated in about every Christian translation to be found.


“Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief;” So it was the will of God to crush Himself???


“when he makes his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days” God makes himself an offering for sin? JC sees his offspring? How is he going to do that? He was never married, he never had any offspring.


“He shall prolong his days”

God is going to prolong his days when he makes himself an offering for sin? And if he doesn’t, God is not going to prolong his days?

But didn’t God die when he was 30?


“when he makes his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring”

God needs to make himself an offering in order to be able to forgive his creatures? God first has to be murdered by his creatures, and only then he can forgive them?


“Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong” God is going to give Himself a portion with the strong? When exactly did JC get that?


The clear proof that Isaiah 53 speaks about the people of Israel can be found here: Isaiah 53

 

[Eliyahu613]

@Eliyahu613 where do you think Jesus of Nazareth is right now?

This is something important that @PanInVietnam needs to hear and be clear about.

Bs"d

I think he is dead, just like all the other dead people.

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

I think he is dead, just like all the other dead people.

Thanks. @PanInVietnam needs to know this. He also needs to know that the New Testament contains the witness of Jews who believe he has been resurrected from among the dead to life and is presently seated at the right hand of YHWH in heaven.

You’ve provided Jewish testimony against Jesus. The New Testament contains Jewish testimony for Jesus.

Everything stands or falls on the resurrection.

 

[Nephesh]

And your messiah didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he was not the messiah.

How did Jesus not fulfill the messianic prophecies? Pick any one(s) you'd like to reference.

 

[Eliyahu613]

How did Jesus not fulfill the messianic prophecies? Pick any one(s) you'd like to reference.

Bs"d

You can find examples with commentary of me here in chapter 3: Notestament

 

[Eliyahu613]

Everything stands or falls on the resurrection.

Bs"d

Even in the New Testament there is NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS of his resurrection. No man saw him get up from the grave and walk away.


Oh, but he appeared to his disciples. Well, in that case, can you explain to me why nobody recognized him? Look in Luke 24:13-35. This speaks about the men on the road to Emmaus. He met them, but they didn't recognize him.


The same thing happens in John 20:14; "At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, ... "

She thought he was the gardener....


John 21:4 "Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. He called out to them, ..."


And again they didn't recognize him.


Isn't it strange that they didn't recognize the person with whom they were so close for years?


But the NT gives the answer to that strange phenomena. Look in Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."

So it was a person "in a different form" from the previous well known person who appeared to them, that's why they didn't recognize him.


A person in different form from the old Christ, who was not recognized by the people he interacted with for years, only days before, doesn't that sounds like an impostor who is pretending to be the resurrected messiah?


That also explains why some of the disciples doubted when the "resurrected messiah" appeared to them: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." Matt 28:17.


Can you imagine that the authentic messiah appears to you and you still doubt?

Apparently he was not so authentic.


If the disciples, who saw the "resurrected Christ" with their own eyes, still doubted, why then do the Christians 2000 years later, who have nothing to go by but stories, don't doubt?

 

[Nephesh]

Bs"d

You can find examples with commentary of me here in chapter 3: Notestament

Just reference one messianic prophecy for me. Any one you'd like. No need for commentary.

 

[Eliyahu613]

Just reference one messianic prophecy for me. Any one you'd like. No need for commentary.

Bs"d

Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do.

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

.

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

Even in the New Testament there is NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS of his resurrection. No man saw him get up from the grave and walk away.


Oh, but he appeared to his disciples. Well, in that case, can you explain to me why nobody recognized him? Look in Luke 24:13-35. This speaks about the men on the road to Emmaus. He met them, but they didn't recognize him.


The same thing happens in John 20:14; "At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, ... "

She thought he was the gardener....


John 21:4 "Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. He called out to them, ..."


And again they didn't recognize him.


Isn't it strange that they didn't recognize the person with whom they were so close for years?


But the NT gives the answer to that strange phenomena. Look in Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."

So it was a person "in a different form" from the previous well known person who appeared to them, that's why they didn't recognize him.


A person in different form from the old Christ, who was not recognized by the people he interacted with for years, only days before, doesn't that sounds like an impostor who is pretending to be the resurrected messiah?


That also explains why some of the disciples doubted when the "resurrected messiah" appeared to them: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." Matt 28:17.


Can you imagine that the authentic messiah appears to you and you still doubt?

Apparently he was not so authentic.


If the disciples, who saw the "resurrected Christ" with their own eyes, still doubted, why then do the Christians 2000 years later, who have nothing to go by but stories, don't doubt?

Your spiritual ancestors conspired against him and had him executed by the Romans. He was buried, and your spiritual ancestors saw to it that a Roman guard was stationed around his tomb.

The guards knew he was no longer in the tomb where he had been placed days before and were terrified.

He was bodily resurrected. There was no different form. They saw him, they touched him, they spoke with him - for forty days! - they ate with him, they saw him ascend into heaven. They endured persecution because they knew the truth about him.

Jesus is alive and well, not dead.

The NT Jewish witness against all - Jews and non-Jews alike - who deny it.

 

[ScottA]

@Eliyahu613
Okay...if you are going to have two treads, here it is again:

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

I found this (above). You didn't specify, so I will take it that this is what you meant when you said "The messiah didn't come yet. We know that because the messianic prophecies are not yet fulfilled."

Which is simply evidence that you and those who believe that Jesus was not the Messiah, didn't see those things. Do you also say there is no God, because you have not seen Him?

All that you have done is to show yourself as blind to things of the spirit. Which I do not say as criticism, but rather as a simple explanation that anyone who is of God and knows God, should know of God in spirit. However, is it not written that to some, He opened their eyes, and then the eyes of the blind shall be opened? Indeed, it is. All of which was explained by Him whom you have rejected. And consequently you do not see, because you are not walking that highway and that road foretold (Isaiah 5).

Would you like to?

 

[Eliyahu613]

Your spiritual ancestors conspired against him and had him executed by the Romans. He was buried, and your spiritual ancestors saw to it that a Roman guard was stationed around his tomb.

The guards knew he was no longer in the tomb where he had been placed days before and were terrified.

He was bodily resurrected. There was no different form.

Bs"d

"There was no different form"??

You don't believe in your own gospels?

Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

"There was no different form"??

You don't believe in your own gospels?

Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."

His appearance was different. He was bodily buried and bodily resurrected.

“Later that day he appeared to two who were walking from Jerusalem into the country, but they didn’t recognize him at first because he had changed his appearance.”

(TLB)

I believe in the Gospels written by Jews who believed he is the Messiah sent by his and their God.

Jesus was dead. Jesus was made alive. They saw him, spoke with, ate with him, etc.

It is certain beyond a shadow of doubt that their testimony concerning the man whom you believe is dead is the man who is alive now forevermore.

 

[Matthias]

“The Jews charged that if nothing had changed in the world, the Messiah could not have come according to Isaiah 2:4. And since the world is still filled with war, Jesus of Nazareth cannot have been the Messiah. These church leaders* responded to the charges of their critics, admitting that the world indeed brims with violence. They also agreed with the Jews that the coming of the Messiah would indeed change the world. …

The early church leaders, therefore, answered that the Messiah had already come and that the world had in fact changed. It had been transformed in the people of the Messiah who lived according to the law of Christ. There was no longer any violence in the messianic people, the church. They had become ‘children of peace.’ In the church, the making of war was being unlearned.

The prophetic vision was being fulfilled in the church.According to these early church leaders, nonviolence was an authentic part of the missionary witness of the church. Because these early Christians rejected war, their concern to bring others into the Christian community was believable.”

(John Driver, How Christians Made Peace With War, pp. 21-22)

* The author is specifically referring to Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Origen. *

Their argument is now largely abandoned by Christianity, and has been since the fourth century. Some Christians, however, myself included, still stand by it.

 

[Behold]

-
War is God's judgment against sin on Earth.
Hell is God's judgment against sin in eternity.

Jesus said....“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.""

Jesus said.....“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword [of division between belief and unbelief]."

"""""when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking VENGEANCE on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"""

""""""when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out [full and complete] VENGEANCE to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond (believe) to/in Him].

"It is a FEARFUL THING to fall into the hands of the LIVING GOD""

Reader, what rescues us from that day of Wrath?

A.) "all that call on the Name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"... from it.

A.) "as many as BELIEVE IN JESUS... God gives to them the POWER to become a Son/Daughter of God".

A.) Jesus said..'"YOU MUST be born again.."... and that is not water baptism.


"well, i dont believe in Hell".

Answer?

= Everyone who died and went there today, believes in Hell now. and they believe in Jesus also, and that wont help them...

 

[M3n0r4h]

well i agree that Jesus shouldnt be worshipped

Jesus shouldn't be worshiped? confused

Are you aware you identify as Christian?

Christians worship Jesus Christ.

News?

 

[M3n0r4h]

But he was worshiped. The wise men came to worship him.

Jesus was worshiped by more than the wise men ...

... and He also declared Himself to be THE Almighty.

Amen.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Jesus shouldn't be worshiped? confused

Are you aware you identify as Christian?

Christians worship Jesus Christ.

News?

Busted!
Maybe they got their accounts confused?

I posted their post below in case they want to edit out the Jesus part.

@Eliyahu613 implies they're Jewish but identify as other faith on that account.

well i agree that Jesus shouldnt be worshipped, i mean He even hid from the Two Greeks, etc, He never asked to be worshipped i guess, but the rest how you gonna sell that to ppl who accept the NT? I mean no offense but we already know that Jews reject the messiah, see, so you would maybe have to demonstrate how Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies, from your pov? And again no offense but i doubt a Prot is going to be interested in the finer details, at least without some compelling evidence

 

[M3n0r4h]

Busted!
Maybe they got their accounts (MIXED UP?) confused?

That's funny you say that.

Very likely possible. So much of that going on all over the internet these days.

 

[Lizbeth]

Bs"d

Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do.

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

.

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.

Assyria is Babylon........spirit of the world that all souls are captives of and need to be saved from, and the Messiah is from Israel and came to Israel first to save them. The Lord speaks to us in parables (in His word) and without a parable spake He not to them. Even David was a type of the Messiah to come....and his father Jesse is a type too....well who is the Father of the Messiah Yeshua?

Mar 4:11-12
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Mat 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Expecting an earthly utopia and political kind of king/messiah is one thing that tripped the Jews up in the first century, sadly. Yeshua taught that the kingdom of God comes not with our careful observation but is within/among His people. It is a spiritual/heavenly kingdom. Only a remnant out of all Israel came to believe in Him, just as Isaiah said...though the number of Israel be as the sands of the sea only a remnant will be saved.

 

[CC7799]

The Messiah you are waiting for will be the Antichrist.

He will claim to be God and Christ and you will fall for it.

Jesus of Nazareth was the true Messiah of Israel, but when He comes the second time, He will come to judge the unbelieving and the ungodly (and also destroy the Antichrist). So now is the time to believe that He died for your sins.

Agree.