THE LORD WILL REIGN ON EARTH WITH ISRAEL

[Doug]

Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

These verses speak of the day of the Lord.

[Matthew 24:29-30 KJV] 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[Mark 13:24-26 KJV] 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The day of the Lord will see these celestial events and include the coming of Christ who will reign on earth from Jerusalem:

Psalm 97:1 The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

The believing remnant of Israel will reign on earth with Christ:

Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

[Luke 12:32 KJV] 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

The little flock is the believing remnant of Israel who will inherit the kingdom on earth and reign as kings and priests (Revelation 5:10).

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The church, the body of Christ will not reign on earth, but eternally in heaven:

 

[Jay Ross]

Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Context, context and more context is required.

Isaiah 24:21-23: - ​

21 It shall come to pass in that day​

That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,​

And on the face of the land the kings of the face of the land.​

22 They will be gathered together,​

As prisoners are gathered in the pit,​

And will be shut up in the prison;​

After many days they will be punished.​

23 Then the moon will be disgraced​

And the sun ashamed;​

For the Lord of hosts will reign​

On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem​

And before His elders, gloriously.​

Doug, there is a timespan of around 1000 years, i.e. after many days as written in verse 22, between verse 22 and verse 23 in the above passage.

What happens after the 1,000 years? The Bottomless pit where the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth have been imprisoned, it will be unlocked for a little while period of around 24 years, during which time the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will cause havoc around the earth as they march towards Jerusalem in a last ditched effort to install Satan as a deity over all of the peoples of the earth. It is during this little while time period that the moon will be disgraced, and the sun will be ashamed, after which, Satan, the beast and the False Prophet will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire and the peoples of the earth will be judged based on their righteous, and those who are deemed unrighteous will also be sent into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death.

I may be able to see many tops of parallel mountain ridges but not the distance between the mountain ridges which may take years to cross.

Shalom

 

[Doug]

Context, context and more context is required.

Isaiah 24:21-23: - ​

21 It shall come to pass in that day​

That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,​

And on the face of the land the kings of face of the land.​

22 They will be gathered together,​

As prisoners are gathered in the pit,​

And will be shut up in the prison;​

After many days they will be punished.​

23 Then the moon will be disgraced​

And the sun ashamed;​

For the Lord of hosts will reign​

On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem​

And before His elders, gloriously.​

Doug, there is a timespan of around 1000 years, i.e. after many days as written in verse 22, between verse 22 and verse 23 in the above passage.

What happens after the 1,000 years? The Bottomless pit where the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth have been imprisoned, it will be unlocked for a little while period of around 24 years, during which time the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will cause havoc around the earth as they march towards Jerusalem in a last ditched effort to install Satan as a deity over all of the peoples of the earth. It is during this little while time period that the moon will be disgraced, and the sun will be ashamed, after which, Satan, the beast and the False Prophet will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire and the peoples of the earth will be judged based on their righteous, and those who are deemed unrighteous will also be sent into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death.

I may be able to see many tops of parallel mountain ridges but not the distance between the mountain ridges which may take years to cross.

Shalom

[Mat 24:29-30 KJV] 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I have not studied end times in depth but I think the celestial events happen at Christs coming .........do you know a verse that shows these events later on.........I think the day of the Lord begins mid trib and runs til new heavens and earth

 

[JunChosen]

@ Doug,

Many in Christendom believes in a one thousand years reign of Jesus with believers on earth citing Revelation Chapter 20. However, by my reading the texts, I can't seem to find the correct verse.

Can you or anyone expound on the correct verse? Thank you.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Doug]

@ Doug,

Many in Christendom believes in a one thousand years reign of Jesus with believers on earth citing Revelation Chapter 20. However, by my reading the texts, I can't seem to find the correct verse.

Can you or anyone expound on the correct verse? Thank you.

To God Be The Glory

Here are two verses

[Rev 20:4, 6 KJV] 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. ............................. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The believing remnant of Israel that will come thru the tribulation will reign with Christ in the kingdom...........also the old testament saints like David, also the dead new testament saints who are Christ;s, and the Gentile nations that treated Israel well in the tribulation

 

[Seeding Loving]

This is one of the most wonderful forums topics that I have so much love and joy is reading, especially when I see truth and honesty pertaining to the Scriptures.

we can honestly ask the question "" How is God not gathering His Jewish people back to Israel today ? """

or is it so important to ask the question " " is God not still gathering even more Hebrew people back to their homeland before - HE FULFILLS THE REST OF THE PROPHECY OF Zechariah

_ - TO Gods RETURNING TO DEFEND THEM IN THEIR BATTLE and attack. - _

- Our Bible says that - God himself - is literally, physically, bodily returning back to defend Israel / Judah, in the last days.

As the Book Of Zechariah prophecies and promises.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

:3 ........ all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

: 9 I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

: 10 ..............and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[keithr]

Context, context and more context is required.

Isaiah 24:21-23: - ​

21 It shall come to pass in that day​

That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,​

And on the face of the land the kings of face of the land.​

What translation is that? Other translations are:

KJV:

(21) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.​

WEB:

(21) It shall happen in that day that Yahweh will punish the army of the high ones on high, and the kings of the earth on the earth.​

UASV+:

(21) On that day Jehovah will punish the army of heaven, in heaven, and the kings of the earth, on the earth.​

Brenton Septuagint:

(21) And God shall bring his hand upon the host of heaven, and upon the kings of the earth.​

LSV (Literal Standard Version):

(21) And it has come to pass in that day, YHWH lays a charge on the host of the high place in the high place, And on the kings of the earth on the earth.​

 

[CadyandZoe]

Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

In this passage, Isaiah may be employing a symbolic expression to convey a profound truth: the LORD of hosts surpasses the celestial bodies in both power and authority. While the sun and the moon do not possess minds that can experience confusion, nor do they have hearts that can feel shame, the people of Israel have placed their faith in these luminaries, believing they exert influence over their existence. Isaiah's message serves as a reminder that the LORD stands far greater than these heavenly entities, urging the people to recognize and understand His supreme dominance over all things, including the very forces they mistakenly regard as powerful.

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

In this particular instance, the Prophet vividly personifies the celestial bodies, inviting us to imagine the constellations as sentient beings possessing the agency to choose whether or not to illuminate the darkness. The moon, for example, has the option to decide if her gentle light should pierce through the night. This metaphor suggests that the "light" they offer symbolizes wisdom and deep understanding. The passage conveys a powerful message: whatever insights and enlightenment Israel believed they were obtaining from the Sun, Moon, and constellations will soon be rendered moot. God is poised to transform the night sky in such a profound manner that it will serve as a testament to His unmatched power and authority over these celestial entities. This divine intervention not only reveals His supremacy but also signifies a shift in the source of wisdom and guidance for His people.

After that, astrologers will be left with nothing but to discard their charts.

 

[Jay Ross]

What translation is that?

In the KJV the translators have changed the meaning of "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" which has embedded within the Hebrew word used in this verse, the Hebrew root word H:0127 which has the meaning of "soil," to "of the earth" and "upon the earth."

I have just expressed "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" differently to what you are accustomed to reading without changing the context of the verse which is closer to the original contextual meaning within this verse.

I could have expressed "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" in English as "God's fertile soil" which would have been more confronting for you, but closer to the Hebrew context of this word within my understanding of what was being said by Isaiah.

Shalom

 

[Seeding Loving]

So glad and privileged to read and study each and every post or comment in the forum,

such thoughtful words, thoughts and a thirst and striving for seeking truth.,

To you " Jay Ross " could you please be more specific about what particular portions of the Scriptures you were referring to ?

 

[Jay Ross]

To you " Jay Ross " could you please be more specific about what particular portions of the Scriptures you were referring to ?

First off, if you want people to know that you are asking a question of them, you could have inserted "@" + the member's tag, i.e. in my case, "Jay Ross" and I would receive a notification under the bell symbol at the top right-hand side of the forum's page, which if I then clicked on the bell would list all of the notification for me to view. You will also receive a notification there as well because I have referred to a portion of your post quoted above.

Secondly, your request was vague as to what you were wanting me to address. As an example, wherever I see the English word "forever" in the Old Testament, I ask myself was the Hebrew word finite or infinite as that make a big difference in our understanding of many of God's promises to Israel. The same is true for the English word "land" which is often found associated with the word "forever."

The Strong definition for H:5769 is as follows: -

H:5769 עוֹלָם `owlam (o-lawm'); or `olam (o-lawm'); from H:5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - KJV - alway (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+without end).

H:5956 עַד `alam (aw-lam'); a primitive root; to veil from sight, i.e. conceal (literally or figuratively): – KJV - any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing).

The Hebrew Root word H:5769 is found embedded in 16 different Hebrew word variations, 438 Hebrew Word ranging from once up to 208 times. Biblehub gives this listing: -


Strong's Hebrew 5769
438 Occurrences

1. hal·‘ō·w·lām — 2 Occ.
2. hal·‘ō·w·lā·mîm — 1 Occ.
3. hā·‘ō·w·lām — 14 Occ.
4. lə·‘ō·lām — 174 Occ.
5. lə·‘ō·lā·mîm — 1 Occ.
6. lə·‘ō·w·lām — 2 Occ.
7. mê·hā·‘ō·w·lām — 1 Occ.
8. mê·‘ō·w·lām — 15 Occ.
9. mê·‘ō·w·lām — 1 Occ.
10. ‘ō·w·lām — 208 Occ.
11. ‘ō·w·lā·mîm — 9 Occ.
12. ‘ō·w·lā·mōw — 1 Occ.
13. ‘ō·wl·mê — 1 Occ.
14. ‘ō·w·lām — 4 Occ.
15. ū·lə·‘ō·w·lām — 1 Occ.
16. ū·mê·‘ō·w·lām — 3 Occ.

As you can see the contextual meaning for these 16 Hebrew word occurrences within the verses where they are found may also vary greatly.

To answer your request is not a simple black and white response.

Shalom

 

[JunChosen]

@Doug,

Sorry I don't read/see any one thousand years reign of Christ on earth with believers in your Scripture references.

Are we now suppose to read the Bible with "fill in the blanks, whenever we want?" Where are you going to put the thousand years reign of Christ seeing the Bible stipulates in Matthew 24:29-31:
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above passages does not seem to say there will be a thousand years reign of Christ on earth! BECAUSE, the world/earth as we know it will be destroyed immediately after the tribulation!!!

So where will you place the the one thousand years reign of Christ on earth?

BTW, the "Day of the Lord" is Judgement Day.

To God Be The Glory

 

[keithr]

... Where are you going to put the thousand years reign of Christ seeing the Bible stipulates in Matthew 24:29-31:
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above passages does not seem to say there will be a thousand years reign of Christ on earth! BECAUSE, the world/earth as we know it will be destroyed immediately after the tribulation!!!

That passage does not say that the world/earth will be destroyed - it says those living on the earth will see Jesus coming with great power and glory, and that then the "elect" shall be gathered (“These are those who came out of the great tribulation", Revelation 7:14, those that became believers after the rapture of the Church, which occurs before the tribulation).

So where will you place the the one thousand years reign of Christ on earth?

The tribulation ends with Jesus returning (symbolically shown as riding a white horse) to save the righteous, and to punish the wicked, Revelation 19:11-21 (WEB):

(11) I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.​

(12) His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.​

(13) He is clothed in a garment sprinkled with blood. His name is called “The Word of God.”​

(14) The armies which are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in white, pure, fine linen.​

(15) Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged sword, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.​

(16) He has on his garment and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”​

(17) I saw an angel standing in the sun. He cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the sky, “Come! Be gathered together to the great supper of God,​

(18) that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, small and great.”​

(19) I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse, and against his army.​

(20) The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.​

(21) The rest were killed with the sword of him who sat on the horse, the sword which came out of his mouth. All the birds were filled with their flesh.​

Then Satan is bound up and the 1,000 year reign starts (Revelation 20). Barnes' Notes on Revelation 19:21 says:

The general idea here is, that these great anti-Christian powers which had so long resisted the gospel, and prevented its being spread over the earth; which had shed so much blood in persecution, and had so long corrupted and deceived mankind, would be subdued. The true religion would be as triumphant as if the Son of God should go forth as a warrior in his own might, and secure their leaders for punishment, and give up their hosts to the birds of prey. This destruction of these great enemies - which the whole course of the interpretation leads us to suppose is still future - prepares the way for the millennial reign of the Son of God - as stated in the following chapter. The “beast” and the “false prophet” are disposed of, and there remains only the subjugation of the great dragon - the source of all this evil - to prepare the way for the long-anticipated triumph of the gospel. The subjugation of the great original source of all those evil influences is stated in Rev_20:1-3; and then follows the account of the thousand years’ rest of the saints, the resurrection of the dead, and the final judgment.​

 

[Doug]

@Doug,

Sorry I don't read/see any one thousand years reign of Christ on earth with believers in your Scripture references.

Are we now suppose to read the Bible with "fill in the blanks, whenever we want?" Where are you going to put the thousand years reign of Christ seeing the Bible stipulates in Matthew 24:29-31:
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The above passages does not seem to say there will be a thousand years reign of Christ on earth! BECAUSE, the world/earth as we know it will be destroyed immediately after the tribulation!!!

So where will you place the the one thousand years reign of Christ on earth?

BTW, the "Day of the Lord" is Judgement Day.

To God Be The Glory

At the end of the tribulation the nations gather against Jerusalem (Joel 3) ......Christ comes to battle (Revelation19).....the sun and moon are darkened (Matthew 24:29).....the angels gather the elect into the kingdom and they will reign with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6)

 

[Seeding Loving]

In the KJV the translators have changed the meaning of "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" which has embedded within the Hebrew word used in this verse, the Hebrew root word H:0127 which has the meaning of "soil," to "of the earth" and "upon the earth."

I have just expressed "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" differently to what you are accustomed to reading without changing the context of the verse which is closer to the original contextual meaning within this verse.

I could have expressed "hā·’ă·ḏā·māh" in English as "God's fertile soil" which would have been more confronting for you, but closer to the Hebrew context of this word within my understanding of what was being said by Isaiah.

Shalom

sorry for taking too long to reply and for not being more direct

been super busy

i was looking closer at what you were saying there about the Hebrew word - 'ădâmâh " האדמה "

I do see exactly what you are referring to, the scriptures make a very direct meaning of the word as the top soil as in the quality of the ground and the growth of crops when using this word.

God even sets conditions upon his chosen people, saying that their land and soil will be blessed by their very obedience to him.

Mal 3:11 the fruits of your - ground - 'ădâmâh
Gen 4:2 Cain was a tiller of the - ground - 'ădâmâh

thanks for the reply, i understand