The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End…

[BroRando]

Also you forget that Jesus is king and Savior of the world not just Israel. The watchtower robs you of the ability to read the Scriptures as written.

Interesting. So according to you, Jesus Christ is not the Prince of Peace in (Isaiah 9:6)?? I think you are lying. When the Prince of Peace stands up, it's to assume Kingly Power and the first resurrection begins. Are you aware that in the Greek Septuagint Wonderful Counselor reads Angel of Great Counsel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Actually he is, see the previous links. If you have any questions, please let me know. We can look together in scripture and in history afterwards.

History is rife with heresy as early as the great heretic Origen and his student Arius.

Conflating the angel of the Lord with Michael is a subjective bias. Angel of the Lord is an OT nomenclature almost exclusively used of preincarnate appearances of Jesus. The early saints had no concept of the triunity of God.

Yes Jesus is called prince of peace. He is also called everlasting Father and Jehovah and God and Creator.

Also Michael is a subordinate creature to Satan. Satan was the anointed(messiahed) cherub who covered the throne. The order of superiority of spirit creatures is as follows.
1. Cherubs
2. Seraphs
3. angels.
That is why Michael in Jude dared not bring a railing accusation against Satan in Jude. but when Jesus walked the earth he had no problem railing against teh devil and making all sorts of accusations against HIm.

I am not interested in reading the hundreds of pages you linked to. but if you need help in seeing that this doctrine that Jesus is a created angel is heresy, I will be glad to help.

 

[BroRando]

Actually John 1:1 is speaking about Michael the Chief Messenger as the word of God.
He was later given the Name Jesus in (Philippians 2:6-11)
That is how he became better than the angels, he inherited a Name more excellent than theirs. (Hebrews 1:4)
He was begotten a second time in (Hebrews 5:5)
He makes others who are also conquerors, pillars in his God's Temple with his New Name. (Revelation 3:12)
He also claims to be the Bright Morning Star. (Revelation 22:16)
This Bright Morning Star Battles the other morning star that became unfaithful. (Revelation 12:7-9)
All the angels of God are called sons of God. (Job 38:7) (Job 1:6) (Genesis 6:2)

 

[kcnalp]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus was not reigning as king in heaven until October of 1914.

Makes me wonder how they come up with stuff like this.

Me too. lol

 

[kcnalp]

"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:10-11)

See how the wicked respond to the Good News of God's Kingdom? There is No Peace until the wicked are removed.

So, anyone who isn't JW is "the wicked"?

 

[kcnalp]

2034 is not an end date for the earth, but rather, the end of Satan's Rulership over the earth. "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time." (Rev 12:12)

Religious Zealots for Satan do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end here on the earth. It's coming to an end. This is a cause for celebration is it not? Certainly not for the Religious Zealots for Satan who do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end. Thus is the reason for fierce opposition to Satan's Last Days.

Interesting how you pick that to be literal and then deny perfectly clear Scriptures as "symbolic".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Interesting. So according to you, Jesus Christ is not the Prince of Peace in (Isaiah 9:6)?? I think you are lying. When the Prince of Peace stands up, it's to assume Kingly Power and the first resurrection begins. Are you aware that in the Greek Septuagint Wonderful Counselor reads Angel of Great Counsel.

NO , Jesus is the Prince of Peace, but it is those who twist the Word of God to make the Prince of peace, the same person as teh great prince of Daniel 12.

why do you so readily accept Jesus as the prince of peace but reject Him as teh Everlasting Father, God, and Jehovah as He is called in several verses?

 

[kcnalp]

Religious Zealots for Satan do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end here on the earth. It's coming to an end. This is a cause for celebration is it not? Certainly not for the Religious Zealots for Satan who do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end. Thus is the reason for fierce opposition to Satan's Last Days.

Yep, I think he's calling all non JW's "Religious Zealots for Satan".

 

[kcnalp]

For sure dear friend . Has anyone bothered to look at israel , the jews , they are just as lost in sin
as is the rest of the world . The embrace the same sex , many do . many still outright reject Christ .
Between the adventists , mormons , and Jw , we got us some serious deadly and serious blasphemous teachings going on .

God's work is not finished with Israel!

Ezekiel 11:17-20 (NKJV)
17 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." ' 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

 

[BroRando]

Belief in the eternal Hell is not required for residency therein.
==============================================================================

Eternal Hell is the teaching of the demons. They teach that Jesus Christ has no power or authority to force hell to deliver up its dead. Notice that those dead are not giving the gift of life just to be tortured as Satan and his hordes claim. Now for the revealing of the truth.

Ta da! "hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Religious Zealots for Satan do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end here on the earth. It's coming to an end. This is a cause for celebration is it not? Certainly not for the Religious Zealots for Satan who do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end. Thus is the reason for fierce opposition to Satan's Last Days.

2034 is not an end date for the earth, but rather, the end of Satan's Rulership over the earth. "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time." (Rev 12:12)

Religious Zealots for Satan do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end here on the earth. It's coming to an end. This is a cause for celebration is it not? Certainly not for the Religious Zealots for Satan who do not want Satan's woes to be brought to an end. Thus is the reason for fierce opposition to Satan's Last Days.

For those who die before 2034, only die a temporary death. Why? "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

However, those who die AFTER 2034 die a permanent death of everlasting destruction. They will die forever. The Great Crowd continue living and are restored in a physical manner. (Rev 7:14) Keep On Living into Christ's Millennial Reign...

• "He forgives all your errors And heals all your ailments; He reclaims your life from the pit And crowns you with his loyal love and mercy. He satisfies you with good things all your life, So that your youth is renewed like that of an eagle." (Psalm 103:3-5)

• "Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25)

It truly is sad that teh Watchtower has failed to learn its lesson about date setting. They have been false prophets many many many times in the past with all their date setting.

Like 1914 and the 144,000. Up until the 1960's one could only be part of the 144,000 if they saw the events of 1914 "with understanding" (which the WT pegged atr age 12) So that would make the youngest of the made up Watchtowers 144,000 119!!!!!!

then they changed it to those born by 1914, which would make the youngest of this false 144,000 107!!!!!

Then they changed it again.

Every year they would write how many would take the Lords supper (for only the 144,000 could partake).

Their lame excuse has been "the light is getting brighter"! But if new light contradicts old light then the old light was false light! and Jesus had something very ominous to say about that:

Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Flee the judgment that is being stored up for the Watchtower bible and Tract Society.

 

[kcnalp]

Belief in the eternal Hell is not required for residency therein.
==============================================================================

Eternal Hell is the teaching of the demons. They reject that Jesus Christ has the power or authority to force hell to deliver up its dead. Notice that those dead are not giving the gift of life just to be tortured as Satan and his hordes claim. Now for the revealing of the truth.

Ta da! "hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

 

[BroRando]

why do you so readily accept Jesus as the prince of peace but reject Him as teh Everlasting Father, God, and Jehovah as He is called in several verses?

Prince of Peace actually read Angel of Peace in the Greek Septuagint. Everlasting Father read.. Father of the New Age.
The Prince of Peace came to help Gabriel to fend off Satan who was called Prince of Persia.
Why do you want to know my name it is Wonderful? (Judges 13:18)

None of these are the God and Father of Lord Jesus Christ. Have you never read the Our Father Prayer??
What Jesus first priority in his prayer to his Father?

 

[BroRando]

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

Yes... everyone dies and that's where they go. Hell is simply the Grave. That is why it is emptied. (Rev 20:13) The reason you believe hell is more powerful than Jesus Christ is because you swallowed the Wormwood of Satan.

You already drank the Kool-aide. “And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.” (Rev 8:11)

Both the righteous and or the just and unrighteous and or the unjust people go to the grave (hell). Jesus and Jonah were both released from hell but you deny this? Doesn't the scripture teach "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

Who Goes to Hell?

 

[BroRando]

Have you Lost a dead loved one... Would you like to find out the truth?
Play the video entitled "Today"

 

[Robert Gwin]

Ultimately, for each of us, is not the time that matters, our time period allotted to during which we may choose which way to travel for ourselves... toward God or toward mammon? My actual physical time exposed to the natural light of the sun began in December of 1943, but I made no decisions for myself for several years after that.

The end of my allotted time arrives when I am no longer able to make any more decisions, which probably means when I am about to draw my final breath as a man of flesh. At my current age of 77 years it could easily occur long before the 2034 end date mentioned by @BroRando in his OP. God has allowed each of us our period of time.

Is not what we do with our allotted period of time for God or for mammon ultimately what matters? On this point we probably agree. Why would those dates of 1914 or 2034 even if they really were the beginning and ending of something definite as per the written scriptures make a difference for a person who does not know he will live until 2034? The youngest one among us could be killed in an automobile accident before the sun goes down today...

Yes sir, even Jesus spoke of urgency in his day, and although he didn't know the day or hour himself, no doubt he realized that it would yet be some time off Mk 13:32

One thing that is really great if one does not survive till the return of Christ, is they will most likely receive a resurrection and a clean slate Rom 6:7, whereas if they survive to the return to Jesus, likely they will have been judged as goats. Obviously that is my opinion, and hopefully I am in error on that, but the scriptures clearly state that those who do not know God, and do not obey the gospel of Christ will be destroyed upon his return 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[ReChoired]

I have some questions. It concerns the time prophecies as understood by the WTS/JW org. I would like to cite from their common books, which I have here in front of me, and then ask a few questions.

Original link: https://i.ibb.co/DVgg8vk/AWHN-Bible-Timeline-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Time-Chart.jpg

Question 01 - Is this timelime (picture) accurately representing the WTS/JW prophetic timeline as understood in their source materials?

Question 02 - Are the following statements accurate and perfect quotations from "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy":

In regards the WTS/JW timeline above, the '2,520' it is written in Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy:

PADP, page 96 reads, "... [28] Since the "seven times" are prophetic, we must apply to the 2,520 days the Scriptural rule: "A day for a year." This rule is set out in a prophecy regarding the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 4:6,7 compare Numbers 14:34.) ..."​

In regards the WTS/JW timeline above, the '2,300' it is written in Pay Attention To Daniel' Prophecy:

PADP, page 177 reads, "... The 2,300 days constitute a prophetic period. Hence, a prophetic year of 360 days is involved. (Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14) This 2,300 days, then, would amount to 6 years, 4 months and 20 days. ..."​

Question 03 - If Questions 01 and 02 are answered in the affirmative ('Yes'), then How can the WTS/JW say that the '2,520' of Daniel 4, according to their theology, needs to have the 'day for a year' principle, as cited, applied which makes for 2,520 natural years, and when it comes to the '2,300' of Daniel 8:14, which the WTS/JW org. say "constitute a prophetic period", and not apply the same rule therein, as done to the '2,520' which are the "prophetic" "seven times"? (This question is asking about consistency in application of said "Scriptural rule" in WTS.JW theology)

Question 04 - According to WTS/JW theology/doctrines, can anyone provide sourced documentation (available to be read online, PDF, etc) on what the WTS/JW org teaches on the following time prophecies (or if they are time prophecies at all), when they occurred, or will occur:

Daniel 11:14 (KJB) - "in those times"
Daniel 11:24 (KJB) - "even for a time"
Daniel 11:40 (KJB) - "at the time of the end"
Revelation 2:10 (KJB) - "tribulation ten days"
Revelation 3:10 (KJB) - "the hour of temptation"
Revelation 8:1 (KJB) - "about the space of half an hour"
Revelation 9:5,6,10 (KJB) - "five months", "those days", "five months"
Revelation 9:15 (KJB) - "an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year"
Revelation 10:6 (KJB) - "that there should be time no longer"
Revelation 11:9,11 (KJB) - "three days and an half"
Revelation 17:12 (KJB) - "one hour"

Also, are the times of Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5, differing or the same timeframes as found in Daniel 7:25, 12:7 (please expound briefly with source citation)?​

Question 05 - Why does the WTS/JW timeline (above), begin the 7 heads of Revelation 17 with [1] "Egypt" and [2] "Assyria" (PADP, page 165), rather than Babylon?

I guess I will never get these simple questions answered. I have asked in numerous places. Only one ever tried to even bother, and they could only point me to WTS online library, without anything specific. Sigh. I'm leaving. I don't care any more. Let it perish.

 

[amadeus]

Yes sir, even Jesus spoke of urgency in his day, and although he didn't know the day or hour himself, no doubt he realized that it would yet be some time off Mk 13:32

One thing that is really great if one does not survive till the return of Christ, is they will most likely receive a resurrection and a clean slate Rom 6:7, whereas if they survive to the return to Jesus, likely they will have been judged as goats. Obviously that is my opinion, and hopefully I am in error on that, but the scriptures clearly state that those who do not know God, and do not obey the gospel of Christ will be destroyed upon his return 2 Thes 1:6-9

I do like the way you are saying things. Too many who I see as insisting are often careless presuming that because they are "right" they must force the issue.

Of course in many [all?] things I also believe that I am right or I hope that I would being changing in anything recognized as being wrong.

In any case I do believe that we need to come the manner in which Jesus pursued the work which was his to do and follow that way as best we can. This may mean discuss, but much of what I see around this forum is not really discussion even though sometimes it receives that label.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin." Rom 6:7

Men are dead, but even when the gift of God, Life via the quickening Spirit of the Holy Ghost is received, something in us still has to die so as to stop us from sinning and defiling the new gift, even as Adam and Eve defiled the original gift of Life they had before their disobedience.

What has to die, I believe, is described here:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The "world", I believe, is not planet Earth, but the little world of each us, our little world still being tempted to sin by those lusts and pride. Jesus cleaned us out with his sacrifice, but all of our old ways and habits which led us to go our own ways instead of God's Way were still within us needing to be overcome as Jesus overcame the temptations in his own body of flesh... before he went to the cross.

Who has overcome their world already? Those who have may eat of that other Tree:

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Those not striving to overcome by and with the power of the Holy Ghost in them, if they have received Life anew, will then receive death anew... the second death? or...?

Who is right?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov. 21:2

 

[kcnalp]

Yes... everyone dies and that's where they go. Hell is simply the Grave.

Kingdom Hall lied to you.

NWT Rev 20:10 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER.

At least they got that one right even if JW's don't believe their own NWT!

 

[BroRando]

Kingdom Hall lied to you.

NWT Rev 20:10 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER.

At least they got that one right even if JW's don't believe their own NWT!

Belief in the eternal Hell is not required for residency therein.
==============================================================================

Eternal Hell is the teaching of the demons. They teach that Jesus Christ has no power or authority to force hell to deliver up its dead. Notice that those dead are not giving the gift of life just to be tortured as Satan and his hordes claim. Now for the revealing of the truth.

Ta da! "hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” (Rev 20:13)

The Last Days that began in 1914 are now coming to their End…