The Kingdom of God - do we have access to it now?

[FactsPlease]

The Kingdom isn't spiritual properties- even tho it inspires them.
It is a government set up by God and has it's King.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Nuff said.

Parsing synonyms is in bad form. I don’t subscribe to inventing word meanings to fit doctrine.

It’s not ‘nuff said’ at all if you believe that these two terms mean the same thing.....scripturally, they do not.
I have invented nothing.

“Everlasting life” in mortal flesh was what Adam and his wife were offered....not immortality. "Mortal" and" immortal" are opposites....right?

Their lives were sustained by external means, lovingly supplied by their Creator, and the means to facilitate unending life was placed in the garden with free access at first...”the tree of life” was their only means to keep living (again external) and the condition placed on accessing it, was obedience. Their everlasting life was conditional.

The free will they were granted however, was not totally “free”....it had to have boundaries otherwise their free will could be used in a way that was not beneficial to them and others. As we saw in the Genesis account...that is exactly what happened, but with satan first....and he deceived the woman by getting her to misuse her free will, which in turn forced Adam to choose between loyalty to his God, or to his wife. (divide and conquer...the oldest trick in the book) He abused his free will to join her in rebellion, throwing all of us under the bus.

Christ came to redeem us out of his debt. There would have been no need for Jesus to redeem us and no need for the Kingdom to bring us back to God, if Adam had just remained obedient. He is the one blamed for the plight of the human race....not his wife. (Rom 5:12) Why? Because she was the ‘newby’ and she was thoroughly deceived by the serpent....but Adam wasn’t. (1 Tim 2:13-14) What he did was a willful and deliberate choice to disobey his Sovereign. The scenario could have had a very different ending if he had just remained loyal to his God.

“The power of an indestructible life” (immortality) was not granted to Adam and Eve, or the death penalty would have been meaningless. They transgressed God’s command and stole something that was the exclusive property of their Sovereign Ruler. It was a capital offense. Immortals cannot die.

Death came after the aging process began, now barred from “the tree of life”......so from that day forward they began the descent into physical death, but spiritually, they died that day. There was not a single expression of remorse from either of them. They knew that they had lost their personal connection to Jehovah. But for the benefit of the children that would come from them, God initiated a rescue mission.

Their first experience of death with regard to their own kind, was when their older son murdered his brother. They knew what death was, as they would have seen it among the animal kingdom, who were not granted everlasting life. But the death of their son must have really driven home the gravity of what they had done.

Their eviction was to a harsh life, devoid of the loving provisions that God had made for them in the garden.

Immortality was the sole possession of the Creator who had no beginning and will have no end....not even the angels were immortal because God possessed the power to destroy them if they disobeyed him. As spirit beings, they do not need external means to go on living, but they still have to remain obedient to their Creator. The lake of fire awaits all who fail to use their free will obediently.......eternal death.

So why did God allow satan to control the earth? (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-6)
He could have just destroyed the three rebels and started again....why didn’t he?

Why did Jesus have to come and give his life for us.......and why did God institute a Kingdom, taking some ‘elected’ (chosen) from ones among Christ’s disciples to heaven, when he was already man’s rightful Sovereign?
Why would these alone be granted immortal life in heaven with Jesus, whilst those who are resurrected back to life on earth remain mortal?

Can you answer these questions from the Bible, Wrangler? If not, then you don't have the big picture.

Revelation 21:1-5 is talking about Jehovah bringing his rulership back to mankind...of his being "with humans" by means of his appointed King, and a reinstating what he originally purposed for them here on this earth. (Isaiah 55:11) A return to paradise with no death, no pain or suffering, because the "former things have passed away".

 

[Aunty Jane]

Ok - you finally got it figured out that a person can think they are a Christian, but never know Him.

I wasn't going to continue with you, but since you insist on keeping this going, there are a few points I will offer.

Your statement above isn't what I said....its not about us knowing Christ and more importantly "the only true God" who sent him (John 17:3) it is about Christ knowing us......do you see the difference? If Christ has never known those who offer their excuses to him at the judgment, at what point did their "Christianity" fail to be the real deal? Look at the history of the church after the second century.....its all there. The foretold apostasy came, but Christendom doesn't acknowledge it because their whole belief system is based on it.

But you still don't realize that was exactly what was happening in the Bible with most of the Jews also.

Jesus told them:

Jn 5:39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

The thing is that if you really know Him, you really know Him as someone who you have conversations with!!

I agree that we should be able to speak freely with our heavenly Father, but we are not encouraged to speak with Jesus but rather "through" him as God's appointed "mediator". We are to talk to the Father by means of him.
1 Tim 2:5-6...
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”

Read that carefully......the appointed "mediator" is the one who facilitates communication between two parties...us and Jehovah. A mediator cannot be one of the parties, therefore I do not believe that Jesus is God Almighty...but that he is what he called himself..."the son of God"....nowhere will I find a single passage of scripture that calls him "God the Son".

Jesus is a "holy servant" of his God and Father and is appointed as our "High Priest" (Acts 4:27; Hebrews 3:1).....again, a High Priest facilitates worship between God and humans.....he be cannot be a "High Priest" to his God, if he is God.

We talk!!

Of course it is via His Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit, but I hear words from Him. Yet there are many who don't have conversations with Him, still they go around casting out demons in His name, healing the sick in His name, and praying for all kinds of things, 'in His name". They do that because they were told to pray like that instead of getting into conversations with Him.

We can talk to God any time of the day or night, but if we hear audible responses, I believe that it is the mind playing tricks, because God does not send Jesus to have conversations with us. (as much as we might like that) Jesus is the one who acts as the "go between"....he carries our prayers to God because they are said on the basis of Jesus' name....in full knowledge about what that means.

And if a person does come to know Him, they come to know certain things because they know Him. They know He is the Word of God who is God (Jn 1:1,2) They know it is not by their own power and authority that miracles happen and demons are cast out, but He and His Kingdom of angels that serve Him make things happen. And if a person prophesies, that person knows that it was not their words but His, becasue they actually heard Him tell them to tell someone something!! So they don't go around saying, 'didn't we cast out demons in your name', because they were only doing what He asked, and they even know they don't do that very well.

John 1:1-2 does not mean in English what is says in Greek.

After the apostolic period, the 'gifts of the spirit' were withdrawn because they had accomplished what God had sent them to do. These miracles drew people to Christ because they knew that the prophets of old could perform miracles...Moses, Elijah, and others showed that Jehovah their God was empowering them, whereas the corrupt religious leaders of Jesus' day could not. Those wicked men saw the miracles with their own eyes and heard about them, but attributed Jesus' power to Beelzebub. This is why "gehenna" awaits them. (Matt 23:33) "Gehenna" is not "hell"....but that's another story.

The gifts that were manifested by Jesus and his apostles, were a foregleam of what was to come under the rulership of God's Kingdom.....the healing of the sick, raising of the dead, feeding of the multitudes, the preaching of good news to all the ones suffering from the endless sources of trouble that the devil brought upon us all. (Revelation 21:2-4)

The miracles were not to continue after the apostolic period for a very good reason.....the devil was going to use his version of the gifts to fool people into believing that they were still on offer.....but his trickery is a poor imitation of the ones performed in the first century.....its the same power of God they claim, but there are so many failures, which destroys the faith of many. There were no failures in Jesus' day.

"And the report about him spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him ALL those who were suffering with various diseases and torments, those who were demon-possessed and epileptic and paralyzed, and he cured them." (Matt 4:24)

Now I was talking to Him last night about this posting, and He was telling me about how nobody gets into the Kingdom of God unless like a little child, and He reminded me of a couple of parables He had given me. He was telling me how people "over think" this.

Once upon a time there was this ant carrying a heavy load and looking up at a big hill. At the same time there was this little boy that was looking down at this small ant hill and the boy just decided to jump right on top of it.

Interesting that he gave you this parable exclusively.....?...telling you "how people overthink this"....? OK....

So the question is: What is your view point of heaven?

It is of course, vastly different to yours. I see heaven as the dwelling place of God and the creatures he designed to live there in his presence.

I do not see earth as a training ground for heaven because he never intended that any human should go there at the beginning. Selecting some to assist Jesus in the administration of his Kingdom was a thoughtful and magnanimous thing for him to do, seeing as how he already had a large family in heaven, serving his interests there. He could have used any of them, but he chose those who knew what sin is, and who had to deal with it in their daily lives.

Choosing those who had lived life as humans, (as Jesus had, though he was sinless) allows our 'rulers and priests' to be empathetic to our plight. (Rev 20:6) As priests they will intercede for us as they gently and lovingly restore us to the original perfection of mind, body and spirit with which Adam and his wife were created. Jesus loved us enough to unhesitatingly offer his life for ours....but God loved us enough to send him on that mission. (John 3:16)

And perhaps the strange part is that He likes it. He once told me to just ask Him questions all day long. I was sittin in a fast food restaurant eating and talking with Him at the time. So when He gave me that instruction, I had to start looking for questions to ask Him. I pointed to a little tray at the table which had ketchup packets, salt, and pepper in it. So I pointed to it and asked Him, "What about that?"

He instantly responded, "Wasn't it a great idea I gave them?"

It was a great idea, because I hate having to go up and find the salt and ketchup. Often I have to ask the cashier for them, and the cashier is always busy so I usually have to wait while my food gets cold. He had a great idea, that someone there heard from Him, but whether anyone knew it was His idea is questionable. He is just standing there speaking to us, but unless a person starts actually believing in Him they will never understand that He is still there for us!!

I personally find that a bit sad.....as our King has enough to do saving the worthy ones he is searching for among the human race, and directing the greatest preaching campaign that the world has ever seen....(Matt 10:11-14; Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) I don't think ketchup and salt are high on his agenda.....though I guess it makes you happy to think so....

That is not wrong, that is right. But many think that is wrong. So they don't seek the Lord, don't get to know Him, and He winds up telling me to go again and make a post about Him, and His Kingdom, being there for them - because they still didn't get it!!

I don't think Jesus had the internet in mind when he told his disciples to preach the word about his Kingdom. His disciples had to put in the leg work. (Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20) Even though the written word is helpful, Jesus knew that face to face preaching offered so much more. Conversations here are a prime example of why face to face preaching is a much better means of communication.

In the Lord's Prayer, if Jesus was there as King of the Kingdom, why did he tell his disciples to pray for it to "come"? Wasn't it already there?
How does the kingdom "come" Karl? When is God's will "done on earth as it is in heaven"?

 

[Wrangler]

It’s not ‘nuff said’ at all if you believe that these two terms mean the same thing

14 paragraphs but surely you meant the opposite in your opening sentence. It IS ‘nuff said’ at all if you believe that these two terms mean the same thing. LOl

 

[Aunty Jane]

14 paragraphs but surely you meant the opposite in your opening sentence. It IS ‘nuff said’ at all if you believe that these two terms mean the same thing. LOl

Read it again Wrangler...I said it wasn't "nuff said".....wasn't that obvious?

The two terms are not synonymous. Mortal life can be finite, otherwise the death penalty was a lie......but immortal life is infinite...never ending.
Everlasting life was conditional. Immortality isn't.

The humans were created mortal....not that they had to die...but only that they could if they transgressed God's specific command concerning the TKGE. Am I gettin' through?

 

[Wrangler]

Read it again Wrangler...I said it wasn't "nuff said".....wasn't that obvious?

LOL You are killing me! How about you SLOWLY read the rest of the sentence you wrote

It’s not ‘nuff said’ at all if you believe that these two terms mean the same thing

What makes sense is either:

1. It IS nuff said if you believe they are synonyms.
2. It is NOT nuff said if you believe they are NOT synonyms.

So eager were you to launch your 14 paragraph diatribe, you bungled the logic of your rebuttal to your bungled logic. Too funny!

 

[Aunty Jane]

LOL You are killing me! How about you SLOWLY read the rest of the sentence you wrote



What makes sense is either:

1. It IS nuff said if you believe they are synonyms.
2. It is NOT nuff said if you believe they are NOT synonyms.

So eager were you to launch your 14 paragraph diatribe, you bungled the logic of your rebuttal to your bungled logic. Too funny!

Ok...pedantic point taken if it makes you feel victorious to gloat about trivialities.....but where is your response?
The logic was not bungled because I went into some detail (as I always do) to substantiate what I said....

The point was the difference between everlasting life and immortality....so what say you...?

Are you smoke screening or something? All I hear is crickets.....

 

[Karl Peters]

Lot's of great points there Karl!



I got banned for saying otherwise. Not too funny. See 1 Kings 22:19-22.



Hmmm. I've thought about this a lot. Can you name a time that Jesus said something for the fun of it? I do not believe there is a lot of support in the Bible for comedy and fun. Rather, there is quite a bit about being serious.


We are coming to the end of all things, so be serious and keep your wits about you in order to pray more forcefully.
1 Peter 4:7 (VOICE)

While dining with a ruler, pay attention to what is put before you.
Proverbs 23:1



Praise God! I pray I one day have such an experience.


Both sentences could each be there own thread. Are you saying a lot of angels that had a sense of humor fell?


This is why I take food in Romans 14 rather metaphorically. Not merely food but what one exposes themselves to. For instance, while Jesus commands us to be the light, he also commands us not to throw pearls before swine. Both ought to guide our path.

I really am starting to like your posts!

Yeah - if we just read the Bible we do mostly read things that are not so funny, like the prophecy given to people who won't listen to Him. It is not funny that people are going to hell, and that is what has to be discussed for their sake.

Yet as to an example of the Lord being funny comes from the same place where we see Sarah laugh. She of course found what He said about her having a child in her old age, somewhat amusing so laughed at the idea. We understand that He knew she would laugh even before she laughed, right. That is why Isaac was named Isaac, so we do see that in a personal relationship the Lord does have a sense of humor. Remember they had eaten together, right?

So He does not have much humor for those who don't know Him, but as we get to know Him we can find that side of Him. We might call it a promise, considering Isaac (laughter) was the promised son to Sarah. Our kid's should bring us some joy and laughter, right? So it is with Him. He doesn't just love us, but He enjoys us.

Now as for a lot of angels having a sense of humor, I'd say they all have personalities, like people, and for a reason. The reason for which the Lord made them. We know that some people have more of a sense of humor than others. It is not so different with the angels I have meet.

He once sent me 40 angels and asked me to figure out their names. It was a very interesting instruction, because I saw them come as a group with my spiritual eyes. And I worked on it for some years, and in fact I still get some information about them from the Lord. If I figure out one of their names He then tends to send them to minister to me about themselves.

I can tell you that the angel up front of the 40 was Praise. When I talked to him he pointed out that Praise usually goes before the army of God. You can see this in the Bible. Judah means praise, and when the Israelites went out Judah usually was in front. There is a connection with that and why most church services tend to start with praise. God lives in His praise, so it is important to lead off with praise. That is an example of how they ministered to me when I figured out their names.

Joy was at the right hand of Praise, and He appears like a tall powerful angel. And that is because the Joy of the Lord is our strength. You can see the power of those two in the Bible story where Paul was singing joyfully in prison and the earth quaked and the jail was opened.

Now to the left of Praise was an angel I called Reason, because He like to point to the verse in Isaiah where it say to reason with the Lord and He your sins will be white like snow. And what do we usually get from the podium if not some reasoning and teaching.

Behind them was Focus, and though he appeared somewhat small he turned out to be a very helpful angel. Have you ever had the days when you just have trouble focusing on what you need to do. It could be that you need to ask God to help you focus, and sending you an angel that helps you focus on what you need to is likely how the Lord will help you.

Now as for not throwing our perils before the swine, those cannot be what we hear whispered in our ears, becuase those things are to be shouted on the house tops! There are many other things that I see with my spiritual eyes, and experience with the Lord. Some of those are things must be the perils. I still also have the command to preach the Kingdom of God, like others in the Bible preached. :)

I hope that helps, and I am still planning to get to your other thread. :)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

And what of Nathaniel you all ? what was it that Jesus said of him and what he would see ?

Who was Nathaniel ? regarding Israel !

Did Nathaniel see what Jesus said he would see ? and what is that ?

Remember Stephen ? what did he say before he was killed by the Mob of people who were under Delusions and Deceptions ? relating to there Father of Lies and were Murders in fact ! as Stephen pointed out to them in fact, in Acts the situation ?
Stephen pointed out the main point of the Jews who were in control being lost as to God. And Saul what of him, he was their and he got the message later on, that Stephen was in fact totally correct.

So we see a person who Jesus said all of Nathaniel ? being worthy !
Then we see the people who have faith in Jesus maybe the Lord Jesus but they do not know 100% that he is in fact ? and even Peter and the Cock story comes to mind ? But it's not until Jesus goes to Heaven that the disciples of Jesus know truly who he is in fact ! and they kick off the Body of Christ ? the real Church ! because that is who such are abiding in him as him the Head their of. That is the only real Church in fact, they who know and abide in him. It was started !

Jesus started it "The Kingdom" and he will finish this that he started, She grows but the weeds prevail until the day that the weeds do not prevail against it.

So we see in history the ebb and flow strengthen and weaken of peoples Nations faith rise and fall, but when comes the day of Satan dominating over all then comes Satan's fall. and all his games will be burnt up and nothing for people to swallow such deceptions or delusions, so the only way forward is Christ Jesus ! As is the case anyway, as any one who is truly born again understands.
Fact is one who is truly Saved can not be born again twice ! We have that Gift, we picked it up, behold the Gift is a Awesome Gift ! does one put it down to the side ? No, One holds it up ! for all to see, for this Gift to behold is taken place in you. For you are of the Kingdom of God ! set forth among the Wolves ! but fear not the Wolves.

 

[Cassandra]

It's like you are in a special place, kinda like a Kat kerr, only God wakes her up around noon, and I found out from her on a TV show that Santa is in Heaven too, and there is a special Christmas place. She goes to Heaven all the time. Jesus told her to dye her hair pink.

 

[Wrangler]

The point was the difference between everlasting life and immortality....so what say you...?

AJ, I did respond. Again, in your eagerness to pontificate paragraph upon paragraph of your indoctrinated world view, you didn’t simply answer my simple question(s)

The point was the difference between everlasting life and immortality....so what say you...?

Yet, you did not address the underlying logical flaw in your understanding of the big picture. Again, If Adam already had everlasting life, why was there a Tree of Life in the Garden that God later had angels guard so Adam would NOT partake of it? (The correct answer ought to be short, not entrenched with paragraphs of indoctrinated "knowledge.")

If your answer is what it seems, that Adam did not have everlasting life but immortality, we are done here.

To summarize my response:

1. Immortality and everlasting life are synonyms.
2. Your denial of this is void of logic. It is a copious regurgitation of JW doctrine that is nonsensical at base.
3. Is your answer is what it seems, that Adam did not have everlasting life but immortality? YES or NO?
4. If Adam already had everlasting life, why was there a Tree of Life in the Garden that God later had angels guard so Adam would NOT partake of it?
5. We’ve talked before several times about your pedantic tendency, which is ultimately ineffective. My questions are fundamental and axiomatic, requiring PRECISE but also CONCISE answers. You must know you write longer posts than most. This is NOT a positive, for it reinforces the common perception of JW indoctrination, a pre-programmed response to the general area of discussion that actually misses the mark of what is the specific points exchanged.
6. Laborious lectures, like you write, is so unlike Christ.
7. If you cannot provide a YES or NO answer to question 1 and a short 1 paragraph answer to point 2, we are done here, because I’m not going to muddle through dozens of paragraphs in multiple posts to find what you claim is a cogent reply that I need to respond.

EDIT: Eureka! I got the word. Your posts tend to be esoteric, unintelligible to those not indoctrinated into the JW world view of ‘special knowledge.’ It causes you (and your posts) to be un-relatable.

This thread is about the Kingdom of God. Specifically, about the delicious YES or NO question, is it accessible now. You’ve written dozens of esoteric paragraphs parsing synonyms. Is the kingdom accessible now? YES or NO.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Wrangler.....

"To summarize my response:

1. Immortality and everlasting life are synonyms."

No they are not, detailed reasons given. Post #42...its all there. Or if that's too long try post #45....

1. Your denial of this is void of logic. It is a copious regurgitation of JW doctrine that is nonsensical at base.

It is not devoid of logic...it just doesn't agree with your logic....or lack of it.

1. Is your answer is what it seems, that Adam did not have everlasting life but immortality? YES or NO?

If you read my post you already know why Adam was not an immortal. He died. Immortals cannot die. Its not rocket science ya know....

1. If Adam already had everlasting life, why was there a Tree of Life in the Garden that God later had angels guard so Adam would NOT partake of it?

He didn't already have everlasting life....he had the potential for everlasting life by partaking of the "tree of life"....once he sinned, the tree of life was off limits....no "tree of life" meant death.

1. We’ve talked before several times about your pedantic tendency, which is ultimately ineffective. My questions are fundamental and axiomatic, requiring PRECISE but also CONCISE answers. You must know you write longer posts than most. This is NOT a positive, for it reinforces the common perception of JW indoctrination, a pre-programmed response to the general area of discussion that actually misses the mark of what is the specific points exchanged.

My answers are well researched and detailed.....just longer than your attention span can handle apparently....I have researched all the material I comment on, and I am happy with the answers I get from many sources, not just from JW sources. If you cared to read what I write, you would see how much you miss and then write about assumptions you have made rather than what I said. That is entirely your problem.

1. Laborious lectures, like you write, is so unlike Christ.

Well, the sermon on the Mount was hardly a 5 minute discourse. To do justice to the scriptures, a short retort is hardly going to do a subject justice because certain people have the attention span of a goldfish... (Proverbs 6:6)

1. If you cannot provide a YES or NO answer to question 1 and a short 1 paragraph answer to point 2, we are done here, because I’m not going to muddle through dozens of paragraphs in multiple posts to find what you claim is a cogent reply that I need to respond.

Well since I have already addressed all your points, looks like we are done then.....nice dodge BTW....

See ya.

 

[Wrangler]

My answers are .....just longer than your attention span can handle

Yup. 100%. I have no intention of falling into your esoteric world view.

Too bad you have no intention of meeting people where they are, of being 'all things to all people' so some can be saved. Your posts are consistently to glorify - not Christ- but yourself and the pride you have in 50 years of research, in paying homage to your IDOL, knowledge.

If you cared to read what I write

Others have commented on your tendency to engage as a superior teacher to an inferior student, rather than equals having a conversation - and discussing opinions. If you could only get off your high horse, abandon your works based pride, you'd observe a lot more caring going on about what you write.

After all that, I still don't believe you answered the OP question, repeated in post #51, Is the kingdom accessible now? YES or NO

 

[Karl Peters]

Your statement above isn't what I said....its not about us knowing Christ and more importantly "the only true God" who sent him

This is where Jehovah witness get it all wrong!!!

Christianity is Christianity because we follow Jesus Christ!!!

Jesus Christ perfectly follows His Father in heaven, but we follow Jesus Christ!!

We do that because the One true God is: The Father Son, and Spirit!!!

So it is that nobody - not Aunty Jane, not the Jehovah Witnesses, not anybody, comes knows the Father except the Son, and anyone the Son shows Him to.

The Father set it up that way on purpose!! He did so to glorify His Son. He gave His Son all things which He had!! That includes the very words of God, so the all the authority of God (because the authority of God comes through His words), it includes all things created (because God Father, Son, and Spirit did the creating) or have you not read your Bible to know that all things were created through the Son who had the words of God? It also includes the Kingdom of God - so all the angels but some got rebellious and tried to break away from the Son whom they were given to and it will and has cost them. It also includes all peoples, but like the angels that got rebellious, and in our case all people came from the rebelliousness of our parents (Adam and Eve).

So you just don't get the fact that you belong to the Son of God and were in fact given to Him by the Father from the beginning!!!

Therefore you have to get to know the Son, worship Him, and stop being rebellious to Him, The Son, Jesus Christ, because He is the King, and the Lord Our God!! But you are rebellious, just like the rest of us. Therefore He, the Son Jesus Christ who is the Word of God and God the Son, came to save us!! He alone is our salvation and there is only really one thing we must do to be saved, and that is to believe in Him!!

This was the plan the Father had from the beginning, knowing that if he gave us silly people freewill we would turn from Him! Or do you think so little of God that you don't think He knew what He was doing?? That is why I wrote 'us silly people' because all people have sinned, and have turned away from Him. Still, thanks to the Son, Jesus Christ the King, all we have to do is just believe in Him!! But you are trying to believe in the Father! If in fact you were to believe in the Father you would have believed in the Son, understood that He was made King by His Father, and would understand that you can not come to the Father, on the Son can. But He will show you the Father if and only if you come to Him and thus recognize Him as the King. So you will die in your sin.

Now I saw that this forum, supposedly a Christian forum, didn't really want this discussed, but this is basic Christianity, and indeed is why it is called "Christianity" and not "Jehovah Witness". That is to say again that we follow the Son, Jesus Christ!! He follows perfectly the Father whom only He knows!!!

Now this thread was clearly about the Kingdom of God, but you don't know about the Kingdom the KING OF KINGS is over because you don't know the KING!! That will mean that He, Jesus Christ, personally will honestly tell you "I NEVER KNEW YOU", and He does not lie!!

And that is why He personally sends me to preach both Him as the Word of God, because you have never heard God if you have not heard from Him, and also to proclaim/preach the Kingdom of God which includes Him, the King, and those heavenly hosts who serve Him so who did not get thrown down in the rebellion that took place in heaven.

You need to stop listening to those deceiving you!! Real true Christians are those following Jesus Christ!! Yes, He shows us the Father, but even that through Him!! Did you not even read:

Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus Christ is of course that child born to us, and so that son given to us!!

And He will be called... Eternal Father!!!

How can that be if since you think you are going to find the Father without Him???

He is called by us, "Eternal Father", because we see the Father in Him and in Him only!!!

John 14: 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

You don't understand the above verse!! If you know Jesus Christ and have been discipled by Him then you have seen the Father, because He is the perfect image of the invisible God and He does and says only what the Father tells Him. But if you knew Him you would know this about Him. We don't preach the Father, we preach Jesus Christ, and Him as the Word of God and the KING OF KINGS, just like Isaiah did!! He is that son born to us, and given to us, and if anyone believes in Him they will be saved, And I tell you that believing in Him means hearing from Him, because faith comes from hearing Him personally!!!

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

So, you missed it because you are trying to believe in the Father and thus failing to glorify and believe in the Son, Jesus Christ. Proving that you don't believe in Him!!

Still I have good news for you!! He, Jesus Christ, stands at the door knocking with His voice and if anyone (that includes all unbelievers who may have been making a mistake and not realize we seek Him as Christian) and if they open up to Him, then He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. That is to say that you too can personally get to know Jesus Christ!!

If you do get to know Him, you will come to know that One who does and says only what His Father tells Him, so that being a disciple of His means that "the one who has seen Him has seen the Father!!

You will then be a real Christian, following the King of kings, being taught by Him who is the Word of God, being shown things like His Kingdom, including those ministering angels who faithfully serve Him = and that is the topic of this thread

The Kingdom of God - do we have access to it now?​

The correct answer is "YES", but it comes through the KING OF KINGS!!

 

[Karl Peters]

1. Immortality and everlasting life are synonyms."

No they are not, detailed reasons given. Post #42...its all there. Or if that's too long try post #45....

There is a problem when we get into arguments about semantics!

2 Tm 14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly exhort them in the presence of God not to dispute about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the listeners.

Eternal life is what we are looking for. Is there eternal death, as in going into hell and the lake of fire? Well - that is not what we are looking for. We are looking to get to that place of everlasting life, and the angels gather us up!

Mark 13:27 “And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

So the elect will be in that place where the angels are.

Jn 10: 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

The elect are His sheep who actually hear Him and follow Him!! And He send forth the angels to gather us, but also to guard us, minister to us, and we can even go in and out now!

Jn 10:9 “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

This is not a question of semantics; it is a question of knowing Him who commands the angels!!

Who told you to argue of semantics?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yup. 100%. I have no intention of falling into your esoteric world view.

Too bad you have no intention of meeting people where they are, of being 'all things to all people' so some can be saved. Your posts are consistently to glorify - not Christ- but yourself and the pride you have in 50 years of research, in paying homage to your IDOL, knowledge.


Others have commented on your tendency to engage as a superior teacher to an inferior student, rather than equals having a conversation - and discussing opinions. If you could only get off your high horse, abandon your works based pride, you'd observe a lot more caring going on about what you write.

After all that, I still don't believe you answered the OP question, repeated in post #51, Is the kingdom accessible now? YES or NO

Wrangler, when you are faced with questions that you cannot address, you yourself do not respond humbly....backed into a corner you come out swinging....you resort to playing the victim to deflect attention away from your own lack of knowledge. You get personal instead of addressing the topic....is that your pride talking?

Jesus was a teacher...he imparted knowledge, but not everyone appreciated what he taught. They attacked the teacher. He taught his apostles and they imparted knowledge to others....they were attacked too. But this is what knowledge is for....to share. Attacking the teacher does not alter the truth.
All I do is share knowledge.....but when something disagrees with what you want to believe, you turn to attack.....do you even realise that you do this...it’s not the first time.

Even now there is no acknowledgment of the clear difference between everlasting life and immortality. You simply cannot admit that you might be wrong about it. Humble? Seriously? Is there a rafter you need to remove from your own eye perhaps?

In answer to your question.....don’t you first have to know what the Kingdom is before you can say anything about entry into it? The Kingdom has been in operation ever since Christ received his Kingship (Daniel 7:13-14)....but when was that?.....and to whom is it accessible? are also valid questions.

Please just stick to the facts and keep the personal attacks out of it.

 

[Karl Peters]

Wrangler, when you are faced with questions that you cannot address, you yourself do not respond humbly....backed into a corner you come out swinging....you resort to playing the victim to deflect attention away from your own lack of knowledge. You get personal instead of addressing the topic....is that your pride talking?

Jesus was a teacher...he imparted knowledge, but not everyone appreciated what he taught. They attacked the teacher. He taught his apostles and they imparted knowledge to others....they were attacked too. But this is what knowledge is for....to share. Attacking the teacher does not alter the truth.
All I do is share knowledge.....but when something disagrees with what you want to believe, you turn to attack.....do you even realise that you do this...it’s not the first time.

Even now there is no acknowledgment of the clear difference between everlasting life and immortality. You simply cannot admit that you might be wrong about it. Humble? Seriously? Is there a rafter you need to remove from your own eye perhaps?

In answer to your question.....don’t you first have to know what the Kingdom is before you can say anything about entry into it? The Kingdom has been in operation ever since Christ received his Kingship (Daniel 7:13-14)....but when was that?.....and to whom is it accessible? are also valid questions.

Please just stick to the facts and keep the personal attacks out of it.

Do you see not understand!!!!

I don't care if you converse with Wrangler of not!!!

I want you seek Jesus Christ, which you are not!!

This topic was about the Kingdom of God, and it's availability to us now if we get to know the King - who is Jesus Christ!!

Yet all we get through you is anything but. We get that we have to go after the Father, not the Son,

We get sidetracked with false negatives.

We get sidetracked with arguments over semantics.

So I keep turning you back to Jesus Christ as the Word of God and KING OF KINGS - because His sheep do hear His voice and have the ability to go in and out of the Kingdom of God now!

I want you to start seeking His voice, and getting to know Him, and conversing with Him - but you fail to see this!!

So who are you listening to if you are sidetracking the thread about the Kingdom of God being available to us through Jesus Christ, the King?

I asked you that question - not that I need to know but you need to know Him, Jesus Christ!!


If you do you will find the King, so the Kingdom of God also, and the place of eternal life, that His angels will gather up us to.

Yeah - the His Father will draw you to His Son, so why do you not understand that I am pointing you to the Son. How do you suppose the Father might go about drawing you to the Son???

Do you still not understand that I got instructions, to preach the Jesus Chrsit as the Word of God and King and so to preach the Kingdom of God, and those instructions come from the Son who only does and says what the Father tells Him - so the Father is trying to draw you to His Son, by the very words He gives to His Son who gives them to His sheep who hear His voice???

It is not about Wrangler, and it is not about me, it is about getting people to seek first the Kingdom of God which is available through and only through Jesus Christ the Lord Our God!!

If you know Jesus Christ you will know the Father, and you will know that the message the Father has is:

Mat 17:5 “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!”

So that is my message also, but you think I am trying to side with Wrangler???

You have it all wrong!!

I am trying to side with the Father who says to listen to Jesus Christ!!!

So do it!

 

[Wrangler]

We do that because the One true God is: The Father Son, and Spirit!!!

Of course, that is a trinitarian invention, bearing no resemblance to the actual explicit words of Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

Therefore you have to ... worship Him (the Son)

What verse says this, to worship anyone other than god, who we relate to as father? Odd that Jesus taught us, not to worship him but pray to our father, who is in heaven, while Jesus was on Earth.

Most churches pray to god, our heavenly father, in Jesus' name. This is as Scripture says, not as you say. If you truly follow Jesus, why do you teach what he did not?

 

[Wrangler]

Mat 17:5 “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!”

Who said that? (Jesus is not called the son of the father).