The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

[Reggie Belafonte]

To those determined to defend the church and claim it is Christ's church... His body.
Read the gospels. What's your overwhelming perception as to Who Christ is. Who said the following...
The devil comes but for to kill, steal, and destroy. I am come that you might have life, and have it in all its abundance.
When perusing the history of medieval religion, with us wars, persecutions, and coerced confessions etc, which of the above was being represented? Whose body in reality was in operation then? Was the church healing as Jesus does? Or destroying as the devil does?

The Devil and his Satanic Mob are more about cunning and stealth working delusions among all that they can, they come across as nice or any deal masquerading and many are just mislead due to the temptations of such.
If one is not born again of the Holy Spirit then one can easy be mislead, the worldly are lost to the powers of Satan, so they work in vain.
I see every Church is corrupted, I have to laugh at many people in the RCC what a worldly Pope that they have now, oh boy he is called the peoples Pope by the media the media love him. I find that amazing as all my life I have only seen the media try and slander the Popes 24/7 they were at war with every Pope. but now that Pope Francis is the medias Pope all is fine. the Media rules the world !

Most people in the Churches will sit and only be indoctrinated with dribble just like one does in school, no one questions them and if you do, you will get nowhere with them.

One could go back to the 1960's in a time machine and you would be astounded at how much any Church has changed it's tune over the years.
The Devil is in the detail in it all, their was always ones within working away at undermining Christ Jesus. they are very well organised and have plans set that span over a 100 years to reach their objectives, slowly with great stealth they set the tone to undermine Christ Jesus. the RCC has always had many bastards within it who are devoid of Jesus Christ anyone who is a homosexual or molester is under the power Satan to be sure. they are possessed !
Just look at the Churches today they have been exposed for covering up all grave Sins and what's more they have not repented truly at all, nothing has changed truly at all in that regard, in fact they are totally defiant as to their resolve as ever they have been proven to be over all them years, but words come just as cheap as it does with a whore.
Pell is guilty as hell in knowing that them Priest were molesters and he has not repented for that even publicly, what a dog ! such as that are worthy of hell, what a blight ! I am not going to set foot in a Church again with any regard for them, they are all of a Mob just like Jesus said about such in the vineyard, who set about and killed all the Prophets of God and Jesus himself, one in the same ! they have their own religion and it's a work of man, next we will see them with the Star of David that St Stephen pointed out what it truly was.
Go up and ask any Priest nowadays to preach on that subject St Stephen was on about, you will not get a peep out of them because they are exposed just as the Jews were totally exposed by St Stephen and they killed him. but what did St Stephen see ? remember that, it's the most wonderful in the Bible and they seen his face ? :)

 

[Enoch111]

Time for a history lesson . . .

Everything you have presented is AFTER the Gospels. The Gospel of Luke is sufficient to establish the canonicity of only the 24 books of the Hebrew Tanakh, and Christ is the Supreme Authority in this matter.
So time for a Bible lesson.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Everything you have presented is AFTER the Gospels. The Gospel of Luke is sufficient to establish the canonicity of only the 24 books of the Hebrew Tanakh, and Christ is the Supreme Authority in this matter.
So time for a Bible lesson.

I see - it was too much history for you after all . . .

Tell me - why are there some 200 references to the Deuterocanonical Books on the pages of the NT?

 

[Enoch111]

You can't answer Marymog's question without resorting to false history.

I don't need to resort to false history. This is from the 2nd century.

III.-Canon Muratorianus. 22 (In Muratori, V. C. Antiq. Ital. Med. oev., vol. iii. col. 854.)

[Note: Matthew and Mark may have been mentioned but are missing from this fragment in Greek]
I. ...those things at which he was present he placed thus.
23 The third book of the Gospel, that according to Luke, the well-known physician Luke wrote in his own name 24 in order after the ascension of Christ, and when Paul had associated him with himself 25 as one studious of right. 26 Nor did he himself see the Lord in the flesh; and he, according as he was able to accomplish it, began 27 his narrative with the nativity of John. The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, "Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us." On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.
28 And hence, although different points
29 are taught us in the several books of the Gospels, there is no difference as regards the faith of believers, inasmuch as in all of them all things are related under one imperial Spirit,
30 which concern the Lord's nativity, His passion, His resurrection, His conversation with His disciples, and His twofold advent,-the first in the humiliation of rejection, which is now past, and the second in the glory of royal power, which is yet in the future. What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things
31 so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, "What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written."
32 For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order.
Moreover, the Acts of all the Apostles are comprised by Luke in one book, and addressed to the most excellent Theophilus, because these different events took place when he was present himself; and he shows this clearly-i.e., that the principle on which he wrote was, to give only what fell under his own notice-by the omission 33 of the passion of Peter, and also of the journey of Paul, when he went from the city-Rome-to Spain.

3. As to the epistles 34 of Paul, again, to those who will understand the matter, they indicate of themselves what they are, and from what place or with what object they were directed. He wrote first of all, and at considerable length, to the Corinthians, to check the schism of heresy; and then to the Galatians, to forbid circumcision; and then to the Romans on the rule of the Old Testament Scriptures, and also to show them that Christ is the first object
35 in these;-which it is needful for us to discuss severally,36 as the blessed Apostle Paul, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name, in this order: the first to the Corinthians, the second to the Ephesians, the third to the Philippians, the fourth to the Colossians, the fifth to the Galatians, the sixth to the Thessalonians, the seventh to the Romans. Moreover, though he writes twice to the Corinthians and Thessalonians for their correction, it is yet shown-i.e., by this sevenfold writing-that there is one Church spread abroad through the whole world. And John too, indeed, in the Apocalypse, although he writes only to seven churches, yet addresses all. He wrote, besides these, one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in simple personal affection and love indeed; but yet these are hallowed in the esteem of the Catholic Church, and in the regulation of ecclesiastical discipline.

There are also in circulation one to the Laodiceans, and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, and addressed against the heresy of Marcion; and there are also several others which cannot be received into the Catholic Church, for it is not suitable for gall to be mingled with honey.

4. The Epistle of Jude, indeed, 37 and two belonging to the above-named John-or bearing the name of John-are reckoned among the Catholic epistles. And the book of Wisdom, written by the friends of Solomon in his honour. We receive also the Apocalypse of John and that of Peter, though some amongst us will not have this latter read in the Church.

The Pastor, moreover, did Hermas write very recently in our times in the city of Rome, while his brother bishop Plus sat in the chair of the Church of Rome. And therefore it also ought to be read; but it cannot be made public 38 in the Church to the people, nor placed among the prophets, as their number is complete, nor among the apostles to the end of time.

Of the writings of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Miltiades, we receive nothing at all. Those are rejected too who wrote the new Book of Psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides and the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians.39

 

[Marymog]

You really need to educate yourself instead of continuing to promote the myth that the Catholic Church gave us our Bibles.

Hmmmm.....You said Christians had already established the canon of Scripture LONG BEFORE the Catholic church came into existence.

I asked you for evidence to back up your statement and that is how you respond with an attempted insult of me?

Until you provide evidence what you said it is either a lie or your opinion.

 

[Joseph77]

God Says God Is In Charge, not mere men/mortals/religious or otherwise.

 

[Joseph77]

Amen. False history is what has been perpetrated since a little before 312a.d. - since "there are many anti-christs among us" was written (in the first century.) ... it only got worse after that, not better.
============================
QUOTE="Enoch111"]I don't need to resort to false history. This is from the 2nd century.

III.-Canon Muratorianus. 22 (In Muratori, V. C. Antiq. Ital. Med. oev., vol. iii. col. 854.)

[Note: Matthew and Mark may have been mentioned but are missing from this fragment in Greek]
I. ...those things at which he was present he placed thus.
23 The third book of the Gospel, that according to Luke, the well-known physician Luke wrote in his own name 24 in order after the ascension of Christ, and when Paul had associated him with himself 25 as one studious of right. 26 Nor did he himself see the Lord in the flesh; and he, according as he was able to accomplish it, began 27 his narrative with the nativity of John. The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, "Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us." On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.
28 And hence, although different points
29 are taught us in the several books of the Gospels, there is no difference as regards the faith of believers, inasmuch as in all of them all things are related under one imperial Spirit,
30 which concern the Lord's nativity, His passion, His resurrection, His conversation with His disciples, and His twofold advent,-the first in the humiliation of rejection, which is now past, and the second in the glory of royal power, which is yet in the future. What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things
31 so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, "What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written."
32 For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order.
Moreover, the Acts of all the Apostles are comprised by Luke in one book, and addressed to the most excellent Theophilus, because these different events took place when he was present himself; and he shows this clearly-i.e., that the principle on which he wrote was, to give only what fell under his own notice-by the omission 33 of the passion of Peter, and also of the journey of Paul, when he went from the city-Rome-to Spain.

3. As to the epistles 34 of Paul, again, to those who will understand the matter, they indicate of themselves what they are, and from what place or with what object they were directed. He wrote first of all, and at considerable length, to the Corinthians, to check the schism of heresy; and then to the Galatians, to forbid circumcision; and then to the Romans on the rule of the Old Testament Scriptures, and also to show them that Christ is the first object
35 in these;-which it is needful for us to discuss severally,36 as the blessed Apostle Paul, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name, in this order: the first to the Corinthians, the second to the Ephesians, the third to the Philippians, the fourth to the Colossians, the fifth to the Galatians, the sixth to the Thessalonians, the seventh to the Romans. Moreover, though he writes twice to the Corinthians and Thessalonians for their correction, it is yet shown-i.e., by this sevenfold writing-that there is one Church spread abroad through the whole world. And John too, indeed, in the Apocalypse, although he writes only to seven churches, yet addresses all. He wrote, besides these, one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in simple personal affection and love indeed; but yet these are hallowed in the esteem of the Catholic Church, and in the regulation of ecclesiastical discipline.

There are also in circulation one to the Laodiceans, and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, and addressed against the heresy of Marcion; and there are also several others which cannot be received into the Catholic Church, for it is not suitable for gall to be mingled with honey.

4. The Epistle of Jude, indeed, 37 and two belonging to the above-named John-or bearing the name of John-are reckoned among the Catholic epistles. And the book of Wisdom, written by the friends of Solomon in his honour. We receive also the Apocalypse of John and that of Peter, though some amongst us will not have this latter read in the Church.

The Pastor, moreover, did Hermas write very recently in our times in the city of Rome, while his brother bishop Plus sat in the chair of the Church of Rome. And therefore it also ought to be read; but it cannot be made public 38 in the Church to the people, nor placed among the prophets, as their number is complete, nor among the apostles to the end of time.

Of the writings of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Miltiades, we receive nothing at all. Those are rejected too who wrote the new Book of Psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides and the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians.39[/QUOTE
=====================================================================

 

[Marymog]

I don't need to resort to false history. This is from the 2nd century.

III.-Canon Muratorianus. 22 (In Muratori, V. C. Antiq. Ital. Med. oev., vol. iii. col. 854.)

[Note: Matthew and Mark may have been mentioned but are missing from this fragment in Greek]
I. ...those things at which he was present he placed thus.
23 The third book of the Gospel, that according to Luke, the well-known physician Luke wrote in his own name 24 in order after the ascension of Christ, and when Paul had associated him with himself 25 as one studious of right. 26 Nor did he himself see the Lord in the flesh; and he, according as he was able to accomplish it, began 27 his narrative with the nativity of John. The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, "Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us." On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.
28 And hence, although different points
29 are taught us in the several books of the Gospels, there is no difference as regards the faith of believers, inasmuch as in all of them all things are related under one imperial Spirit,
30 which concern the Lord's nativity, His passion, His resurrection, His conversation with His disciples, and His twofold advent,-the first in the humiliation of rejection, which is now past, and the second in the glory of royal power, which is yet in the future. What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things
31 so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, "What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written."
32 For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order.
Moreover, the Acts of all the Apostles are comprised by Luke in one book, and addressed to the most excellent Theophilus, because these different events took place when he was present himself; and he shows this clearly-i.e., that the principle on which he wrote was, to give only what fell under his own notice-by the omission 33 of the passion of Peter, and also of the journey of Paul, when he went from the city-Rome-to Spain.

3. As to the epistles 34 of Paul, again, to those who will understand the matter, they indicate of themselves what they are, and from what place or with what object they were directed. He wrote first of all, and at considerable length, to the Corinthians, to check the schism of heresy; and then to the Galatians, to forbid circumcision; and then to the Romans on the rule of the Old Testament Scriptures, and also to show them that Christ is the first object
35 in these;-which it is needful for us to discuss severally,36 as the blessed Apostle Paul, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name, in this order: the first to the Corinthians, the second to the Ephesians, the third to the Philippians, the fourth to the Colossians, the fifth to the Galatians, the sixth to the Thessalonians, the seventh to the Romans. Moreover, though he writes twice to the Corinthians and Thessalonians for their correction, it is yet shown-i.e., by this sevenfold writing-that there is one Church spread abroad through the whole world. And John too, indeed, in the Apocalypse, although he writes only to seven churches, yet addresses all. He wrote, besides these, one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in simple personal affection and love indeed; but yet these are hallowed in the esteem of the Catholic Church, and in the regulation of ecclesiastical discipline.

There are also in circulation one to the Laodiceans, and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, and addressed against the heresy of Marcion; and there are also several others which cannot be received into the Catholic Church, for it is not suitable for gall to be mingled with honey.

4. The Epistle of Jude, indeed, 37 and two belonging to the above-named John-or bearing the name of John-are reckoned among the Catholic epistles. And the book of Wisdom, written by the friends of Solomon in his honour. We receive also the Apocalypse of John and that of Peter, though some amongst us will not have this latter read in the Church.

The Pastor, moreover, did Hermas write very recently in our times in the city of Rome, while his brother bishop Plus sat in the chair of the Church of Rome. And therefore it also ought to be read; but it cannot be made public 38 in the Church to the people, nor placed among the prophets, as their number is complete, nor among the apostles to the end of time.

Of the writings of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Miltiades, we receive nothing at all. Those are rejected too who wrote the new Book of Psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides and the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians.39

OK.....Soooooo you just proved that Scripture was NOT established in the 2nd century. What’s your point....

 

[Marymog]

What if it is proven to be the One False Church?

Every Baptist owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if Baptist beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.

Every Lutheran owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if Lutheran beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.

Every Christian Who sits in their basement on Sunday calling it “church” owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if their personal beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.

Every SDA owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if SDA beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.

Can you see how ludicrous your statement is?

 

[Brakelite]

Can you see how ludicrous your statement is?...
No more ludicrous than the Catholic listening to the local priest and trusting that he is telling the truth because...oh, he's a priest. He went to seminary. And at seminary they are taught doctrine from the Bi... Teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi... Tradition, which evolved from the teachings of other priests who got their teachings from the Bi.... The church fathers who got their teachings from other priests such as Origen and His disciples who got their teachings from the Bi... Greek philosophy...

 

[Illuminator]

I don't need to resort to false history. This is from the 2nd century.

III.-Canon Muratorianus. 22 (In Muratori, V. C. Antiq. Ital. Med. oev., vol. iii. col. 854.)

[Note: Matthew and Mark may have been mentioned but are missing from this fragment in Greek]
I. ...those things at which he was present he placed thus.
23 The third book of the Gospel, that according to Luke, the well-known physician Luke wrote in his own name 24 in order after the ascension of Christ, and when Paul had associated him with himself 25 as one studious of right. 26 Nor did he himself see the Lord in the flesh; and he, according as he was able to accomplish it, began 27 his narrative with the nativity of John. The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, "Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us." On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.
28 And hence, although different points
29 are taught us in the several books of the Gospels, there is no difference as regards the faith of believers, inasmuch as in all of them all things are related under one imperial Spirit,
30 which concern the Lord's nativity, His passion, His resurrection, His conversation with His disciples, and His twofold advent,-the first in the humiliation of rejection, which is now past, and the second in the glory of royal power, which is yet in the future. What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things
31 so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, "What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written."
32 For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order.
Moreover, the Acts of all the Apostles are comprised by Luke in one book, and addressed to the most excellent Theophilus, because these different events took place when he was present himself; and he shows this clearly-i.e., that the principle on which he wrote was, to give only what fell under his own notice-by the omission 33 of the passion of Peter, and also of the journey of Paul, when he went from the city-Rome-to Spain.

3. As to the epistles 34 of Paul, again, to those who will understand the matter, they indicate of themselves what they are, and from what place or with what object they were directed. He wrote first of all, and at considerable length, to the Corinthians, to check the schism of heresy; and then to the Galatians, to forbid circumcision; and then to the Romans on the rule of the Old Testament Scriptures, and also to show them that Christ is the first object
35 in these;-which it is needful for us to discuss severally,36 as the blessed Apostle Paul, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name, in this order: the first to the Corinthians, the second to the Ephesians, the third to the Philippians, the fourth to the Colossians, the fifth to the Galatians, the sixth to the Thessalonians, the seventh to the Romans. Moreover, though he writes twice to the Corinthians and Thessalonians for their correction, it is yet shown-i.e., by this sevenfold writing-that there is one Church spread abroad through the whole world. And John too, indeed, in the Apocalypse, although he writes only to seven churches, yet addresses all. He wrote, besides these, one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy, in simple personal affection and love indeed; but yet these are hallowed in the esteem of the Catholic Church, and in the regulation of ecclesiastical discipline.

There are also in circulation one to the Laodiceans, and another to the Alexandrians, forged under the name of Paul, and addressed against the heresy of Marcion; and there are also several others which cannot be received into the Catholic Church, for it is not suitable for gall to be mingled with honey.

4. The Epistle of Jude, indeed, 37 and two belonging to the above-named John-or bearing the name of John-are reckoned among the Catholic epistles. And the book of Wisdom, written by the friends of Solomon in his honour. We receive also the Apocalypse of John and that of Peter, though some amongst us will not have this latter read in the Church.

The Pastor, moreover, did Hermas write very recently in our times in the city of Rome, while his brother bishop Plus sat in the chair of the Church of Rome. And therefore it also ought to be read; but it cannot be made public 38 in the Church to the people, nor placed among the prophets, as their number is complete, nor among the apostles to the end of time.

Of the writings of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Miltiades, we receive nothing at all. Those are rejected too who wrote the new Book of Psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides and the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians.39

The Muratorian Canon was rejected by the Church. It excluded Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter and included false gospels. What are you trying to prove???

 

[Illuminator]

What if it is proven to be the One False Church?

Every Catholic owes it to himself/herself to carefully search the Scriptures and see if Catholic beliefs and practices are supported by the Bible.

Nowhere does the Bible say that each and every authentic belief and practice must be explicitly found in the Bible to be trustworthy. That is a man made tradition. Until you can find a verse that clearly supports this false notion, you are just blowing it out the wrong end. There were PLENTY of authentic beliefs and practices that didn't make it into the Bible, but that doesn't prove them wrong. Absence does not prove non-existence. see John 21:25; Acts 20:35 (Paul quotes a saying of Jesus that is not found in the gospels)

Before the canon of the Bible, the Christian Rule of Faith (TRADITION) included belief in the Apostolic succession through the Episcopate, the authority of Tradition itself, the authority of Scripture, the three fold ministry (bishop-priest-deacon), the Eucharist as Sacrifice, belief in baptismal regeneration, prayers for the dead, veneration of the Saints, the Seven sacraments, the evangelical counsels, and others. The historical evidence is there for anyone who wishes to see it.

I'm still waiting for you to prove the Bible didn't come from the CC using reputable documentation, not from some wanna-be preacher with a fake degree and a sophisticated video editor.

 

[RogerDC]

Sooooo let me see if I understand your theory: You believe that there is no way that man can know the Truth of Scripture? Or in this case if @Brakelite2 or @BreadOfLife is right or wrong in their given interpretation of Scripture?

How did man "know" what books belonged in Scripture?

Curious Mary

Protestantism is a sea of uncertainty - it claims every individual is taught the meaning of scripture by the Holy Spirit, but none of them are sure that their interpretation is the correct one. Go figure. It doesn't seem to occur to them that man must have access to infallible, universal doctrines.

 

[RogerDC]

Hmmmmm.....so you and @Brakelite2 agree on everything? I KNOW you don't sooooo when you do disagree, which one of you has their "head in the sand"?

Curious Mary

Since they are both led by the Holy Spirit, they must be both right, even though they disagree.

lol.

 

[Illuminator]

 

[Philip James]

'm still waiting for you to prove the Bible didn't come from the CC using reputable documentation,

I find it ironic that the source cited says this: ' but yet these are hallowed in the esteem of the Catholic Church, and in the regulation of ecclesiastical discipline.' And yet is presented as proof that the canon didnt come from the CC. :

Peace!

 

[RogerDC]

No - anti-Catholics do.

You guys claim that Christ's Church failed (which means HE lied) - ALL because there were some bad guys in the Church, which he warned about (Matt. 7:15-20).

An alternative passage could be:
” 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”” (Matt 13:24-30)

 

[RogerDC]

You twist the terms, you elevate yourself and your perceived role, you tell others what they should be doing and believing and even your your signature statement by Chesterton reveals your wiring......yet you are oblivious to all of this.
In your own eyes you are a crusader for all that is right and fair and deception is something that others indulge in.
Yours is the signature of a religious zealot and I would not doubt that if you had the power you would enthusiastically walk in the shoes of your forefathers actions whose history you deny.......but not forgotten by those on the receiving end.

The Catholic Church could well use a lot more warriors and knowledgeable truth-tellers like BreadOfLife.

 

[RogerDC]

We had the leader of the Australian Jesuits in the 1960's come out and say that a bastard group within had over thrown all that they were on about, he was livered about how their order was over run and changed, they were nothing like what the order was once about in Australia. they had changed their spots. so the order was changed so vastly in his opinion and he was the top one, so he would know what was taking place.

That sounds correct. In the 1960’s, Catholic intellectualism was hijacked by Marxists (and sadly, it remains that way today - mainstream Catholicism is saturated with cultural Marxism, which often operates under the pretence of “social justice”). Considering how intellectually influential the Jesuits had always been, chances are the Red Rot started with them (probably well before the 1960’s). By "they changed their spots", the Jesuit leader you refer to was almost certainly talking about the mass infiltration of Marxism into the Jesuit order (which Our Lady of Fatima warned the Church about - ie, “the errors of Russia”). I suspect many Jesuits in that era even become closet-Communists.
However, none of this corruption proves that the CC is not the Church founded by Christ or that the CC has lost her way.

I would like to learn more about what this Australian Jesuit leader had to say. Can you provide a link, please?

 

[RogerDC]

Can you give the same assurances that the Vatican now had gone beyond those policies that allowed for, encouraged, and even instigated the persecution of 10s of millions of innocent Christians, Jews, and Muslims over 10 centuries of predatory power hungry devastation on at least 3 continents?

Which Church launched the Crusades that saved Europe from Islamic invasions? The SDA? Er, no … I believe history says Europe (and therefore Christianity) was saved by the Catholic Church.

And have the Jesuits repented of their crimes and altered their ambitions if world dominion on behalf of the pope?

Jesus wants “world domination” from his followers - “Go therefore and makes disciples of all nations” (Matt 28:19).