The Holy People and the Treaty

[Keraz]

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME.
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are at that time; living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, + The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17. But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

These are Biblical truths, proving the many prophesies about the great Second Exodus of all the Lords people, from every tribe, nation, race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, that will happen before the Return of Jesus. Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That this teaching is not known to most Christians, is how God wanted it to be. Matthew 11:25, Isaiah 42:18-20
But now as we are so close to the time of fulfillment, God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few who are willing to put aside false teachings and really understand His Plans for our future. Jeremiah 30:24

 

[Zao is life]

Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him

According to the text that happened when Christ ascended to heaven. That's why after talking about him pursuing the woman who had given birth to Christ, he turned his attention to "the rest of her seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" which appears to be talking about all the saints, Jew and Gentile.

If you build a scenario about the way things will unfold upon a misinterpretation what one text is telling us, then the castle you have built is a sand-castle because your foundation is sand.

You do that after misinterpreting - and hence misrepresenting - what other texts are saying also, and so it becomes a case of trying to sift the parts of what you say that have been produced by human imagination out of the truth of what you are saying, and it becomes very confusing.

 

[Keraz]

According to the text that happened when Christ ascended to heaven.

Revelation 12:7-12 is clearly an end times event; yet to happen.

You do that after misinterpreting - and hence misrepresenting - what other texts are saying also, and so it becomes a case of trying to sift the parts of what you say that have been produced by human imagination out of the truth of what you are saying, and it becomes very confusing.

Unless you can provide a specific instance of my imagination, I will just dismiss your objections as unpleasant and unsupported rantings.

Any confusion is with you, as I view the end times in a coherent and logical sequence.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 12:7-12 is clearly an end times event; yet to happen.

It clearly is not. Satan was cast out of heaven long ago because he was then not able to accuse believers before God any longer. The reason for that was because Christ's blood covers the sins of believers and Satan can't make any accusations against those whose sins are covered and no longer held against them.

Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Who can accuse us now? No one, including Satan.

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who can bring any charge/accusation against us? No one. Including Satan. So, he is not in heaven any longer making accusations against believers.

Look at what else it says in Revelation 12:10. It says "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah". Salvation, and the power and kingdom of God and authority of his Messiah came long ago already by way of the death and resurrection of Christ and subsequent preaching of the gospel of Christ.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

How did salvation and the power and kingdom of God come? By way of the gospel which teaches that Jesus died and rose again from the dead bringing salvation to everyone who believes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27,

It just amazes me that people think a verse about Christ confirming the new covenant is about some imaginary Anti-Christ confirming some imaginary peace treaty instead. Terrible.

 

[covenantee]

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27

Keraz, I thought you knew better than to swallow this desecrated dispenbunk.

Obviously I erred.

 

[Douggg]

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME.
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are at that time; living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, + The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17. But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

These are Biblical truths, proving the many prophesies about the great Second Exodus of all the Lords people, from every tribe, nation, race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, that will happen before the Return of Jesus. Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That this teaching is not known to most Christians, is how God wanted it to be. Matthew 11:25, Isaiah 42:18-20
But now as we are so close to the time of fulfillment, God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few who are willing to put aside false teachings and really understand His Plans for our future. Jeremiah 30:24

keraz, it does not say peace treaty, nor peace covenant, in the text of Daniel 9:27.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The covenant is the Mt Sinai covenant. The 70 weeks (of years) have determined upon Daniel's people, the Jews, and Jerusalem in Daniel 9:24. The Jews still go by the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Daniel 9 is talking about the relationship between God and Daniel's people made on Mt. Sinai.

Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 laid out the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant to be every 7 years, as a speech given to the nation of Israel, from the place of God's choosing, that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

It has not been done in modern times because of the Muslim presence on the temple mount. But after the Ezekiel 38-39 event, that situation will change, and the Antichrist, as the king of Israel perceived messiah, will make the big speech from the temple mount - and the 7 years will begin, as will the false messianic age of peace and safety.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Zechariah 14:1-2

Wrong. Zechariah 14 was about the fall of Old Testament Congregation. And the Saints fled into the New Testament congregation where Christians has kept the Feast of the Tabernacles since the Cross. The chapter has NOTHING to do with national Israel in the end.

Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period

If you have the wisdom of Christ and spiritual discernment.

that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him.

False. Satan will be thrown out of the fallen Old Testament congregation with his messengers (Jewish messengers) as their kingdom was taken and gave to the New Testament Church as kingdom representative in three days.

He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel.

The woman is congregation Israel, the the kingdom of God is based on, making up of all Old Testament Saints and New Testament Saints.

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17.

False. The covenant of Daniel 9:27 is not "peace treaty". It is a covenant that Christ made with His New Testament congregation. Christ made a covenant with many which make up of New Testament Christians. Not Israel.

But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15

Oh brother.

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The testament is a covenant. Christ confirmed the covenant with His Blood when he died on the Cross. This is how the covenant with many (Chosen Elect) becomes a force. Nothing to do with your so-called peace treaty or treaty of death.

, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

The place of safety (salvation) is Church prepared by God as you can see in next post.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 12:7-12 is clearly an end times event; yet to happen.

You do err.

Rev 12:7-17
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Michael is a signification for Jesus Christ. The Hebrew origin is [miykael], means "whom or he, is surely God." It's taken from three root words, [miy] meaning whom or he, [kiy] meaning surely or assuredly, and ['el], meaning God. [miykael] or Michael is Christ who assuredly is God. He is called the Arch (Chief or Head) Messenger because He is the Messenger of the Covenant (Malachi 3:1) who was prophesied to come.
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

The woman of Revelation 12 symbolizes the Congregation of God. The heaven here is symbolizing the Kingdom of Heaven where the congregation dwells! On Earth. Not literally in heaven!

(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When Christ sent the 70 (BTW the number 70 was representing the fullness or totality of the church) out to witness two by two, and when they returned, He said He saw Satan as lightning fall from heaven (Luke 10:18), this is what Revelation 12 is symbolizing. The accuser is cast out! There is no longer a fear of death as the law does not condemn us, and he no longer has power in the Church. Michael and His Messengers fought against Satan and his messengers by the work of the cross. Ultimately through Christ's death, Satan was cast out and the Lord's army gained the Victory. They go forth Conquering and to conquer, because Christ went forth Conquering and to Conquer and they were risen in Him. They go forth in battle, and overcome not of themselves, but by the blood of Christ. Devils are subject to them through Christ's Power of the cross.

(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The accuser of the brethren is sin. Satan is the essence, the embodiment of sin. But at the cross Michael (Christ) cast down the accuser by purging us from sin, and destroying (making idle or void) Satan who held this fear of death over us (Hebrews. 2:14). we read, Now has come Salvation and Strength! At the Cross! Christ strengthened or confirmed the Covenant in His Blood at the cross (Hebrews 9:17). That is when Satan was cast down. That is when Salvation came. Who did it? Christ! He is Michael, the Chief Messenger of that Covenant. This verse tells us how the victory was achieved. Now is Come the Kingdom. Selah!

(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The Church, the Messengers of Michael overcame Satan how? By the Blood of Christ, and by the WORD of their testimony, and they loved not their lives even unto death. ..EVEN UNTO DEATH! Nothing to do with national Israel at all, Selah!

(12) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The earth and sea is symbolic of the world. Just as Ships are symbolic of the Church in the world or as when Jesus said, I will make you fishers of men. The fish were men in the sea 9world). Our Job as Christians is to go fishing for them. By no stretch of the imagination was God talking about literal fish or sea creatures when He said "Woe unto the inhibitors of the sea". Again, the inhabitors of the sea is a symbolic term for peoples of the world. The Devil is cast out of the Kingdom of heaven, and he has great wrath, and it's woe unto those messengers cast out with him to inhabit the sea/earth (world). For they have been "cut off" and will perish in the earth and in the sea. Though Satan is bound for the kingdom of Heaven's sake, for the world, he goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1st peter 5:8).

(13) And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The Woman is the Israel of God, the Children of God. Before the cross, mainly blood descendants of Abraham, after the cross, the Israel of God is made up of Jews and Gentiles alike. Gentiles have been grafted into Covenant (not national) Israel). This is the Covenant Israel of God, out of whom the Man Child came. And she is persecuted by Satan. For Satan is at enmity with Covenant Israel! Satan working through men persecute the Church of Christ because he is it's adversary. Selah!

Contiune to next post due to space limit

 

[TribulationSigns]

(14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
The wings symbolize the protection of God. The Wilderness is typifying the world (a spiritual desert) where the delivered Church spends it's journey until they reach the promised land. This wilderness is her place where the Church must first tabernacle before it enters the promised land. The wings she is given symbolize the Care, Protection, and Security that God established for His Church. The woman is now protected on eagles wings "in the world" where is her place until Christ's return. This is God using symbolism to put forth many Spiritual truths. And note, it is an exact parallel with the nation Israel when she was freed from bondage to Egypt. Israel then had to go through a wilderness journey before she could enter the promised land. Likewise here in Revelation 12 this woman must spend time in the wilderness after she is delivered of the man child before she enters the Promised land. Just as the "type" or [skia] shadow which preceded her. And the Lord will bring this Woman unto Himself, just as He brought the nation Israel unto Himself. By no stretch of the imagination would we think that any of these things are coincidences. And yet there are some who try very hard to convince themselves it is not parallel, nor a type. But you would really have to be trying very hard not to see this truth illustrated here. The Wings that the Woman is given in Revelation 12 corresponds to the wings God has "always" provided for Israel to bring her securely unto Himself. For example, God said to Moses of the bringing out of Israel..

Exodus 19:4

• "Ye have seen What I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on Eagle's Wings, and brought you unto MYSELF."

This is how God always cares for His Children. When He brought Israel out of bondage, He protected her on eagle's wings. The same thing in Revelation 12 when He brought this woman, the Church, out of bondage to spiritual Egypt. He provided those same eagles wings for her protection and security in the wilderness. God isn't playing word games here, He wants us to know that Israel of old was a "type" of the Israel of God who He would deliver by the Messiah at the cross. The Woman is the bride of Christ. God gathered her in Peace and safety under his eagles' wings. Those wings symbolize His protection. She is safe! That's the wilderness journey the woman (The Israel of God) must go through. God calls the place that Christ was crucified (Rev 11:8) spiritually "Egypt" because spiritually, it is Egypt (1st Cor. 2:13). It was by "His death" at that cross that He brought the Children of Israel out of this House of Bondage. The historical deliverance of Israel from Egypt was a shadow of the true deliverance of Israel by Christ. All those cleansed by His blood, whether Jewish or Gentile have part in the promise of the New Covenant with Israel. Which is what Hebrews 2:14 is pointing out. This was Israel's deliverance from Bondage. God is giving us a marvelous picture of it.

The woman is fed by the bread or manna which is the WORD OF GOD, just as Israel of old was fed in the wilderness by the manna from heaven (the type). Christ is our manna from heaven. the time, times, and a half are a spiritual signification of the midst of the seven or week, or feast of tabernacles. Spiritually 3 and 1/2 or until 1260 days when the beast shall be loosed (this time illustrated again in rev. 11).


(15) And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Note that this flood (River) comes from the mouth of Satan. In other words, it is his WORDS that he uses to try and hurt the Church (woman). Satan was using the false teachers and false prophets of Israel was trying to stop the Church with word and to carry the church away. This is Satan's mission, it has always been Satan's plan, for he is the adversary of the Church, and anything of God!
(16) And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Again, the earth and sea are the world. The world swallows up the false teachings that come out of Satan's mouth like a flood. Instead of the river of lies taking the woman away (as Satan wanted) the people of the world swallow it up! They are deceived of Satan and they come with him to make war with the Saints. Revelation 20 tells us that after Satan is loosed, he musters the nations from the four corners of the world to come up against the camp of the Saints. This is what is in view. The earth swallows the false deceiving lies of Satan, and with him go to make war with the Saints. The world becomes more wicked as you can see today, as Satan deceives them. The world grows more wicked by the hour it seems. The true believers (the woman) will not swallow this flood, but the people of the world do and they hasten the time of the lord's return and the consummation in the promised land.

(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Satan is enraged or wroth with the woman because she is of God. He goes to make war with the remnant of her seed. Her seed is Christ! The remnant of her seed are all those left after Satan's fall. Namely, the 1/3 who were not cut off but brought through the fire. This is the remnant Chosen by Grace. Satan makes war with those who keep God's word faithfully, and whose testimony is faithful.

 

[Davy]

The anti-Biblical propaganda is so thick on this Thread, that it's like taking a bath in crude oil.

Keraz is correct about the Rev.12:7-17 Scripture though, that has yet to happen, and it should be easy to grasp since it is giving SIGNS that involve the very end of this world like the future fate of some saints per the 5th Seal of Revelation 6.

But both 'houses' of Israel won't be joined back together in the holy land as one nation until Jesus returns. And only then it will be those of Christ's Church in the "beloved city", which is why Revelation 20 calls it the "camp of the saints" after Christ's coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Keraz is correct about the Rev.12:7-17 Scripture though, that has yet to happen, and it should be easy to grasp since it is giving SIGNS that involve the very end of this world like the future fate of some saints per the 5th Seal of Revelation 6.

So, you think Satan is still up in heaven accusing believers? What can he accuse us of when our sins are given and have been covered by the blood of Christ and are not held against us?

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Apparently, your answer to the question "If God is for us, who can be against us" is "Satan". And your answer to the question of who will bring any charge/accusation against those whom God has chosen is "Satan" while Paul says "No one".

Far be it from you to take all scripture into consideration when interpreting Revelation 12:7-12. That requires wisdom, so you naturally didn't do that.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 12:7-12 is clearly an end times event; yet to happen.

The logical conclusion of what you are asserting above is that the salvation of Christ is yet to come, and Satan has never been overcome by the blood of the Lamb yet (verses 10-11), because this would be the case in accordance with your above statement.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

So I have just provided evidence that your human imagination has caused you to build a sequence of future events upon a scripture that you have misinterpreted to be referring to something that lies in the future.

Even though there is more evidence, I don't need to provide more evidence. It's not necessary because the point I was making to you in my post has been proved already.

 

[Zao is life]

So, you think Satan is still up in heaven accusing believers? What can he accuse us of when our sins are given and have been covered by the blood of Christ and are not held against us?

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Apparently, your answer to the question "If God is for us, who can be against us" is "Satan". And your answer to the question of who will bring any charge/accusation against those whom God has chosen is "Satan" while Paul says "No one".

Far be it from you to take all scripture into consideration when interpreting Revelation 12:7-12. That requires wisdom, so you naturally didn't do that.

I agree with your post with exception of the last six words, but since you claim that it requires wisdom to interpret scripture correctly, you prove every time you misinterpret scripture that you lack wisdom just as much as (in your opinion) the one you're implying lacks wisdom does.

For example. you argue in another thread against the fact that whereas Paul speaks about all humanity dying in Adam in 1 Corinthians 15:22, he then narrows down what he is saying to only those who belong to Christ at His coming in 1 Corinthians 15:23. You deny it, even though Paul is also only talking about the resurrection of the saints at the time of Christ's coming when talking about the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

- except that IMO you deny the correct interpretations of scripture all too often not necessarily because you lack the wisdom to interpret things properly (as you're accusing another of in the above post), but because you do not place the authority of scripture above your own doctrine and theology - whenever it comes to what is being said by the authors of scripture not "complying" with your Amill doctrine.

So either all to frequently you deliberately do not interpret scripture in the way you insist @Davy should, or you lack the wisdom required to interpret scripture correctly that your post implies he lacks.

 

[Keraz]

keraz, it does not say peace treaty, nor peace covenant, in the text of Daniel 9:27.

It is an agreement - for a fixed period.
God is not involved, so it isn't the Sinai Covenant. It is between the 'many' and a powerful leader, for whom, I have given a viable designation. You do not disprove this, just make your own theory. which is untenable as the Sinai Covenant is superseded.

 

[Keraz]

The logical conclusion of what you are asserting above is that the salvation of Christ is yet to come, and Satan has never been overcome by the blood of the Lamb yet (verses 10-11), because this would be the case in accordance with your above statement.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

So I have just provided evidence that your human imagination has caused you to build a sequence of future events upon a scripture that you have misinterpreted to be referring to something that lies in the future.

Even though there is more evidence, I don't need to provide more evidence. It's not necessary because the point I was making to you in my post has been proved already.

Revelation 12:10-11, as you quote above; continues on to say:
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice you heavens and all who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea; for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, knowing that his time is short.
We are told that the short time of world control by the 'beast', Satan; is 42 months. Rev 13:1-7

Therefore; the fulfilment of Rev 12:10-11, must happen after the 42 months is over. The glorious Return, after the 6 & 7 Bowls, that is Armageddon.
Regarding our Salvation; of course we Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, but for now, we just get on with life and do the tasks assigned to us. The Promise will be fulfilled at the GWT Judgment, provided your name isn't erased from the Book of Life.

Will you retract your false belief and accusations of me? If not, then God may ask it of you.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 12:10-11, as you quote above; continues on to say:
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice you heavens and all who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea; for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, knowing that his time is short.
We are told that the short time of world control by the 'beast', Satan; is 42 months. Rev 13:1-7

Therefore; the fulfilment of Rev 12:10-11, must happen after the 42 months is over. The glorious Return, after the 6 & 7 Bowls, that is Armageddon.
Regarding our Salvation; of course we Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, but for now, we just get on with life and do the tasks assigned to us. The Promise will be fulfilled at the GWT Judgment, provided your name isn't erased from the Book of Life.

Will you retract your false belief and accusations of me? If not, then God may ask it of you.

You have just insisted that the blood of Christ and the salvation of Christ has not come yet in order that you can impose a future fulfillment of Satan's short time, and then you tell me I will need to answer to God for disagreeing with you .

You have not realized that the reason he was no longer able to accuse the brethren is because Christ had paid the penalty for the very indictment against them he had been bringing to God - and that is why it's said that they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb.

But in your lack of discernment you have failed to understand that the reason Satan knew that his time was short, and still knows that his time is short, is because his works - his power over death - were destroyed by the blood of the Lamb which brought the salvation of God, and as a result he was cast down to earth (and has remained cast down to earth ever since them).

That spelled out to him: "My time is short!!!" (or do you think he never noticed?)

Satan does not know how long his short time is. God knows - and one day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day.

Satan knows that his time is short because of the facts - and that is why he was in a rage when he realized it, when he was cast down to earth, and is still raging against those of us who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 5:8:
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour"

etc etc - there are a few warnings and exhortations about the above given to the saints in the New Testament:

1. Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world"; and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will

2. give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

3. The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7).

4. Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

@Keraz you're doing what Amills do - they have not noticed most of the above or cannot see it or refuse to notice it because they need to make the New Testament 'comply' with their Amil false doctrine regarding Satan having been bound when he was cast down to the earth.

Satan knew that his time was short the moment the events described in Revelation 12:3-12 occurred. He never knew, and still does not know how long his short time is. Only God does.

 

[Douggg]

It is an agreement - for a fixed period.
God is not involved, so it isn't the Sinai Covenant.

The text of Daniel 9:27 does not say "agreement", but "covenant".

Who was Daniel praying to in Daniel 9 ? And about his people, Israel, breaking what covenant ?

What covenant established the animal sacrifices that will be stopped in the middle of the 7 years ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree with your post with exception of the last six words, but since you claim that it requires wisdom to interpret scripture correctly, you prove every time you misinterpret scripture that you lack wisdom just as much as (in your opinion) the one you're implying lacks wisdom does.

LOL. Leave it to you to agree with a vast majority of my post only to focus just on the last thing I said. Nice job, buddy.

For example. you argue in another thread against the fact that whereas Paul speaks about all humanity dying in Adam in 1 Corinthians 15:22, he then narrows down what he is saying to only those who belong to Christ at His coming in 1 Corinthians 15:23.

Stop being so deceptive. Do you have no conscience about being dishonest? My point was not in relation to who died in Adam, but rather was in relation to which people Paul was talking about being bodily resurrected. His focus in 1 Corinthians 15 was only on the bodily resurrection of those who are in Christ. Surely, unbelievers are not in Christ. So, him saying "in Christ shall all be made alive" is only in relation to believers who are in Christ. Immediately after saying that he shows the order of bodily resurrections while indicating that Christ's was first, which he had already indicated in verse 20, and then he said next in order are those who belong to Christ at His second coming. So, the ones in Christ who he said would all be made alive are those who are Christ's at His coming.

You deny it, even though Paul is also only talking about the resurrection of the saints at the time of Christ's coming when talking about the resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

What am I denying exactly? I don't deny that literally all people in Adam die. You have decided that Paul then said that in Christ literally all people will be made alive, but that makes no sense. Unbelievers will not be made alive in Christ.

- except that IMO you deny the correct interpretations of scripture all too often not necessarily because you lack the wisdom to interpret things properly (as you're accusing another of in the above post), but because you do not place the authority of scripture above your own doctrine and theology - whenever it comes to what is being said by the authors of scripture not "complying" with your Amill doctrine.

LOL. Total nonsense. You prove over and over again that you are not to be taken seriously. You make claims like this without doing anything to back them up. It's a joke.

So either all to frequently you deliberately do not interpret scripture in the way you insist @Davy should, or you lack the wisdom required to interpret scripture correctly that your post implies he lacks.

Tell me exactly what you think I believe wrongly about 1 Corinthians 15:22. Back up your hot air with some substance.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 12:10-11, as you quote above; continues on to say:
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice you heavens and all who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea; for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, knowing that his time is short.
We are told that the short time of world control by the 'beast', Satan; is 42 months. Rev 13:1-7

The Greek word translated as "short" in that verse is not a word used to refer to a literally small number. The same word is translated as "many" in Matthew 22:14 where Jesus said that "many are called, but few are chosen". It's a word that can be used in a relative sense. Satan's time is relatively short in the sense that it is limited. The 42 months is a figurative reference and is not supposed to be taken literally.

Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

So, you think Satan is still up in heaven accusing believers? What can he accuse us of when our sins are given and have been covered by the blood of Christ and are not held against us?

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Apparently, your answer to the question "If God is for us, who can be against us" is "Satan". And your answer to the question of who will bring any charge/accusation against those whom God has chosen is "Satan" while Paul says "No one".