The Great Danger Of Being Out Of Church

[bigape]

Today, more and more Christians are making the decision, that “Church attendance”, really isn’t that important:
And are convinced that a weekly Bible study or some kind of online worship will do.

The end result, of this decision is disastrous.
--------------------------------------------------
When I talk about Church attendance, I am referring to regularly attending a local Bible believing Church, that has a pastor that preaches & teaches from the Bible, at every service.

There seems to be more and more “fellowships”, that either don’t have a pastor or who’s pastor, doesn’t “preach the Word”:
This is not, a Biblical Church.
--------------------------------------------------
We know that this is a disastrous decision, because God’s Word says it is........
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

The passage before this, tell of how God gave us the pastor/teacher, in order to mature God’s people.

Therefore, every Christian, that dose not put themselves under this Biblical authority, will not grow and will remain a Spiritual child.

 

[jiggyfly]

Today, more and more Christians are making the decision, that “Church attendance”, really isn’t that important:
And are convinced that a weekly Bible study or some kind of online worship will do.

The end result, of this decision is disastrous.
--------------------------------------------------
When I talk about Church attendance, I am referring to regularly attending a local Bible believing Church, that has a pastor that preaches & teaches from the Bible, at every service.

There seems to be more and more “fellowships”, that either don’t have a pastor or who’s pastor, doesn’t “preach the Word”:
This is not, a Biblical Church.
--------------------------------------------------
We know that this is a disastrous decision, because God’s Word says it is........
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

The passage before this, tell of how God gave us the pastor/teacher, in order to mature God’s people.

Therefore, every Christian, that dose not put themselves under this Biblical authority, will not grow and will remain a Spiritual child.

I stopped participating in religious liturgy 8 years ago but I haven't stopped growing spiritually and actually I believe I have matured at a much higher rate since, than the many years I attended.

 

[Paul]

Today, more and more Christians are making the decision, that “Church attendance”, really isn’t that important:
And are convinced that a weekly Bible study or some kind of online worship will do.

...

So, in your opinion, a Bible study group isn't a church? :blink: :unsure:

 

[Templar81]

I coudl say the same thing with regards to Eucharist. Wether you believe it is Christ's actualy body and blood or not you will agree that it is something that our Lord commanded us to do. A fellowship or Bible study group can't administer the Blessed Sacrament. I would say that the Eucharist(and it really doesn' matter what doctrine you adhere to here_ is the high point of the church service and being communion with God is even more important than scripture. If like me you believe in Transubstanciation then the Eucharist becomes even more important.

 

[bigape]

Good morning jiggyfly

You said......

“I stopped participating in religious liturgy 8 years ago but I haven't stopped growing spiritually and actually I believe I have matured at a much higher rate since, than the many years I attended.”

I can understand how this can happen;
Because today, most places that call themselves a “Church”, are not really a Biblical Church at all.

If a “Church” does not follow God’s instructions, than He will not show up at their services.
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Although it is possible to grow Spiritually while out of Church, you can grow stronger and more doctrinally sound, in a good Bible believing Church.

 

[jiggyfly]

Good morning jiggyfly

You said......


I can understand how this can happen;
Because today, most places that call themselves a “Church”, are not really a Biblical Church at all.

If a “Church” does not follow God’s instructions, than He will not show up at their services.
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Although it is possible to grow Spiritually while out of Church, you can grow stronger and more doctrinally sound, in a good Bible believing Church.

I still have fellowship with other believers on a regular basis but it is outside of any kind of religious liturgy or meeting. I also have yet to find a good "bible believing church" in my area. As far as "doctrinally sound" goes, I fail to see the benefit of this coming through a "church" vrs my own personal study time with God.

 

[bigape]

Hello Paul

You asked.......

“So, in your opinion, a Bible study group isn't a church?”

Well this is a good start.
Most Churches throughout history, have started from a Bible study group.

As for what I think, my opinion is of no importance at all.
What matters is, what does the Bible say about it.
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In the Bible, the word “Church” means (called out assembly).

And although there are several things that can transform “a Bible study group” into a Biblical Church, a good start is, authority.

One of the things that makes a group of Christians a Biblical Church, is a structure of Spiritual authority, that each member of your Bible study group, would be willing to place themselves under.
The Bible gives authority to local Churches, over their members.

In a Bible study group, anybody can join it and bring in whatever doctrine they choose to bring.
But a Biblical Church, has a set of Doctrinal standards, that they(the core group), have all agreed to; Therefore any new member that joins, is required to accept these Doctrinal standards.
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Next, after your group decides on these Doctrinal standards, you will have to call a pastor, to lead you.

Now comes the sticky part;
The man you call to be your pastor, will have to personally hold these same Doctrinal standards himself, before he comes in, or he will change your groups Doctrines, after he gets settled in.
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Now personally I have been a Baptist pastor, for the last 25 years or so and over that time, whenever I would be looking for a new Church to pastor, I would ONLY CONSIDER Baptist Churches, that held to Biblical Doctrinal standards.

I can give you a good example of how these standards work:
I have been in my present Church, for about 17 years, and over that period of time, we have had lots of families, come and attend our Church, but never join.

Now, the reason they would regularly attend, is because we are the only Bible preaching Church, within a 75 mile radius or so.
And they had found a place, where they could come three times a week and hear solid Bible preaching.

But the reason a lot of these families never joined our Church is because they personally held different Doctrinal standards than we did.
Therefore they could come and worship and fellowship with us as Christian brethren, but they knew that they could never “join” our Church unless and until, they changed their Doctrinal standards.

One example of this, was a dear family that had come from a Pentecostal background, and although they loved the Lord and enjoyed the Biblical preaching here, they knew that we did not allow tongue speaking.

Now I never once, made an issue of it; yet they knew, that they would have to give up this(& some other doctrinal errors), before they could join.
They were welcomed to join and we would have loved to have had them, but with our Church, sound Bible doctrine comes first.
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Therefore, the first step your Bible study group needs to take, is to adopt a list of Biblical Doctrinal standards, that all of you agree on.

This is why Biblical Churches, start from small groups.
Because if your have too many people, they will not be able to agree, on a set of Biblical Doctrinal standards.

One more thing: The reason Biblical Doctrinal standards are so important, is because we need them to keep us on the right track.
Just like my opening Scripture said......
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

Here, God warns us, that Satan is alive and well and hates us and wants to get us off track Spiritually; Therefore we need the protection that a set of Biblical Doctrinal standards brings.
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Sorry for being so long winded here, but this is important.

 

[Selene]

In a Bible study group, anybody can join it and bring in whatever doctrine they choose to bring.
But a Biblical Church, has a set of Doctrinal standards, that they(the core group), have all agreed to; Therefore any new member that joins, is required to accept these Doctrinal standards.
--------------------------------------------------
Next, after your group decides on these Doctrinal standards, you will have to call a pastor, to lead you.

Now comes the sticky part;
The man you call to be your pastor, will have to personally hold these same Doctrinal standards himself, before he comes in, or he will change your groups Doctrines, after he gets settled in.

Hello Bigape,

I thought it was supposed to be God who would call the Pastor. Isn't God the one who is supposed to do the calling and sending His message to the people rather than the other way around? Shouldn't the doctrines come from God rather than from the people?

In Christ,
Selene

 

[[email protected]]

Today, more and more Christians are making the decision, that “Church attendance”, really isn’t that important:
And are convinced that a weekly Bible study or some kind of online worship will do.

The end result, of this decision is disastrous.
--------------------------------------------------
When I talk about Church attendance, I am referring to regularly attending a local Bible believing Church, that has a pastor that preaches & teaches from the Bible, at every service.

There seems to be more and more “fellowships”, that either don’t have a pastor or who’s pastor, doesn’t “preach the Word”:
This is not, a Biblical Church.
--------------------------------------------------
We know that this is a disastrous decision, because God’s Word says it is........
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

The passage before this, tell of how God gave us the pastor/teacher, in order to mature God’s people.

Therefore, every Christian, that dose not put themselves under this Biblical authority, will not grow and will remain a Spiritual child.

There is a reason why more and more people do not attend church regularly. In Europe, the entire continent has reverted to paganism. In America, we are drinking the cup of judgment. A brew of our own making.

"I hate...your festivals, says the Lord, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies" Amos (5:21).

"I will send a famine on the land: not a famine of bread, or a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord" Amos (8:11).

"In the last days, people will have "a form of godliness," but it will not be based solidly on the Scriptures"
2 Timothy 3:15; 4:14

Those who love the Lord and whose conscience is clean need to know this; pray and work for those who have fallen away.

Our God is kind and forgiving and is not willing that any should fall away. He is still concerned with the work of reconciliation even in the midst of judgment, for therein lies the mystery of the mingling of Divine mercy and judgment.

Today we see the fruit of rebellion and hatred of God ripening on every side.

Pray for our pastors, ministers, priests and rabbis.
Pray for all those who are called by the name of Christ.
Pray for Israel that God may hold that nation in the palm of His hand.

 

[Templar81]

In the UK church numbers are dwindling as people die off and arn't replaced and church attendance figures are always reaching a new low. The result is that churches in all denominations are taking on a larger missionary role and there are many different types of churchse out there besides traditional ones. Many of these are aimed at children, teenagers and families and often the people that attend are people who for as many as three generations have had no religon in their family at all. many of these new converts are people in their 30s or 40s for example who themselvves never grew up with any knowledge of Christianity and of course had none to isntil their own children with. The kind if churches that spring up now are not traditional at all, the have no liturgy at all and often consist of games, quizes and a meal with some time for prayer both outloud and contemplative. My own church; St James' does very well at this. We have a congregation that meets on a friday evening and is called "Good friday," which consists basically of what I mentioned above and it is doing very very well. The problem is though that while it has brought many young people to God and resulted in the the Baptismsand Confirmations of many people chiildren and adults it still stands apart from the regular Sunday congregation. I have always udnerstood that the idea of these churches which are great at missionary work was to work as a stepping stone between wanting to find out aabout Christianity and attending regular liturgical church services, but what happens in reality is that those who attendjust go to the alternative church and never become part of the main church family which I think is sad as they miss out on both traditiaonal church teaching and of course the Eucharist.

There are many weird and wonderful chruches springing upincuding: Messy chruches (ones where people fing a lot of paint around), skateboarding churches, BMX churches and extreme sports churches. There are other chruches which take on the form of cafes and pubsand have services and prayers. Agape meals are becoming more and more common as well in these palaces. Seriosuly there really is a BMX church, I'm not kidding.

 

[bigape]

Hello Selene

You asked........

“I thought it was supposed to be God who would call the Pastor. Isn't God the one who is supposed to do the calling and sending His message to the people rather than the other way around? Shouldn't the doctrines come from God rather than from the people?”

Yes, God does call pastors and He sends them.

God calls men to preach His Word(He called me);
And for the rest of my life, I will be preaching His Word.

Now, the way that God “sends” pastors to Churches, is kind of interesting.
(It has nothing to do with any man-made organization or denomination.)

It takes place, when a Church who needs a pastor, falls on their face before the LORD and asks Him to send them the man that He wants to be their pastor.

And at the same time, there will be a pastor somewhere, who is available to come to that Church; This pastor, will also be fervently praying for the LORD to guide him.
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Now, when the pastor finds out that a local Church is without a pastor, he will first determine if this local Church holds to the same Biblical Doctrinal standards as he does and if they do he will prayerfully prepare a resume and send it to them.

(Praying all the time, for the Lord to shut the door, if this isn’t the Church He wants him in.)
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Later, when the Church receives his resume; They should prayerfully read it to determine of this man holds to the same Biblical Doctrinal standards as they do.
(This may involve a phone call, to talk to the prospective pastor.)

Later, if the Church has a peace about inviting him to preach, they will call him and arrange for a date for him to come and preach view-of-call.

At this time, the pastor & his family will come to the town where the Church is located and he will preach one or two services at their Church and go back home.
(All the time, the pastor and Church are praying for the Lord to guide each of them!)
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Later(a few days to a week or so), the Church will take a vote, to determine how many people in the Church have a peace about this man being their pastor.

Now some Churches call a man, with a simple majority vote, but I personally like to see a Church require a 100% vote, but this is up to the Church.

If the Church votes to call this man to be their pastor, now it is up to him.
(All this time, this pastor has been praying and asking the LORD to speak to his heart and either give him a peace about it or to take his peace away.)

Now when the pastor, receives this call from the Church, he will either say yes or no.
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All this praying and waiting is to make SURE that it is the Lord’s will for this particular man to be the pastor at this particular Church.

Now God is still on His throne and He hears and answers our prayers.
Therefore this is a foolproof method of connecting pastors & Churches.

The only time that it does not work, is when a Church or a pastor get in too big of a hurry and don’t take the time to listen to the LORD!

 

[Paul]

... wind...

I will take my Bible Study group any day over your Baptist Theology.

 

[Selene]

Hello Selene

You asked........


Yes, God does call pastors and He sends them.

God calls men to preach His Word(He called me);
And for the rest of my life, I will be preaching His Word.

Now, the way that God “sends” pastors to Churches, is kind of interesting.
(It has nothing to do with any man-made organization or denomination.)

It takes place, when a Church who needs a pastor, falls on their face before the LORD and asks Him to send them the man that He wants to be their pastor.

And at the same time, there will be a pastor somewhere, who is available to come to that Church; This pastor, will also be fervently praying for the LORD to guide him.
--------------------------------------------------
Now, when the pastor finds out that a local Church is without a pastor, he will first determine if this local Church holds to the same Biblical Doctrinal standards as he does and if they do he will prayerfully prepare a resume and send it to them.

Hello Bigape,

From what I understand....Jesus had many disciples, but He only chose 12 to be Apostles. After Judas committed suicide, Mathais was chosen to replace Judas. Then St. Paul and St. Barnabus were also called to be Apostles by Christ. God sent the Apostles to build the Churches rather than the Churches looking for them. In my opinion, a Church is a "community of believers." The Apostles go out to the people to find and build this "community of believers" (Church). By preaching the Good News, those who heard and believed stayed and became a Church....a community of believers. Those who did not believe the words preached to them left. So, the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonia, etc. were built by Christ through the Apostles. When the Apostles left to build other churches, they left other people in charge to care of the Church. It's the leaders who decide rather than the people. The pastor is supposed to serve God, not the people. If the people are the ones to choose the pastor, then the pastor is there to serve the people rather than God.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Rahmani]

Hi ,I am of the category you mentioned ,i rarely go to church ,, i claim that i could not have matured in the word as much as i have, had it depended on a church attendance ,my relationship with Jesus Christ is personal, it does not go thru a doctrine ,church or pastor ,Christ Jesus said wherever two or more people gather in my name i am there with them, my wife and i form that church , we share the word every day ,and Jesus is right there with us ,what more could we ask fore ?

God Bless

Today, more and more Christians are making the decision, that “Church attendance”, really isn’t that important:
And are convinced that a weekly Bible study or some kind of online worship will do.

The end result, of this decision is disastrous.
--------------------------------------------------
When I talk about Church attendance, I am referring to regularly attending a local Bible believing Church, that has a pastor that preaches & teaches from the Bible, at every service.

There seems to be more and more “fellowships”, that either don’t have a pastor or who’s pastor, doesn’t “preach the Word”:
This is not, a Biblical Church.
--------------------------------------------------
We know that this is a disastrous decision, because God’s Word says it is........
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

The passage before this, tell of how God gave us the pastor/teacher, in order to mature God’s people.

Therefore, every Christian, that dose not put themselves under this Biblical authority, will not grow and will remain a Spiritual child.

 

[jiggyfly]

One more thing: The reason Biblical Doctrinal standards are so important, is because we need them to keep us on the right track.
Just like my opening Scripture said......
Ephesians 4:14
“That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”

Here, God warns us, that Satan is alive and well and hates us and wants to get us off track Spiritually; Therefore we need the protection that a set of Biblical Doctrinal standards brings.
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry for being so long winded here, but this is important.

I am glad that we have the testimony of the scriptures and the scriptures clearly tell us repeatedly to be led and governed by HolySpirit. People can and have found biblical support for the many many "doctrines" that riddle and cause division within the christian religious system.

 

[Selene]

I am glad that we have the testimony of the scriptures and the scriptures clearly tell us repeatedly to be led and governed by HolySpirit. People can and have found biblical support for the many many "doctrines" that riddle and cause division within the christian religious system.

Hi Jiggfly,

If the Scripture is so clear, then how can so many people come up with so many different interpretations from it? How can we be certain who is interpreting Scripture correctly? Already in this forum board, we've had people who say that Jesus is God and others who say that He is not God. We have people who say that we have to follow the dietary laws in Leviticus, and others who interpreted scripture as saying that we don't have to follow it.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[bigape]

Hi Selene

Nice to hear from you again.

You said.....

“God sent the Apostles to build the Churches rather than the Churches looking for them. In my opinion, a Church is a "community of believers." The Apostles go out to the people to find and build this "community of believers" (Church). By preaching the Good News, those who heard and believed stayed and became a Church....a community of believers.”

Not exactly.
The Lord mainly used the Apostles to give us the New Testament..........
Hebrews 2:3-4
V.3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
V.4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were also used to start some Churches.

I noticed you spoke of Apostles, in the present-tense;
The Apostle Paul was the last man to be made an Apostle.

When John finished receiving the Book of Revelation from the Lord, the Apostles work was finished.
--------------------------------------------------
I also noticed that you refer to Paul and Barnabus as “saints”.

Every born again Christian, is a saint just as every Old Testament believer was.
This goes back to the Catholic unbiblical practice of declaring certain people as saints.
--------------------------------------------------
Then you said.......

“So, the Church of Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonia, etc. were built by Christ through the Apostles. When the Apostles left to build other churches, they left other people in charge to care of the Church. It's the leaders who decide rather than the people.”

So the point you are making, is that some Church hierarchy needs to place pastors over Churches that need one.
Even though lots of “Churches” do this, that doesn’t make it Biblical.
--------------------------------------------------
Then you said........

“The pastor is supposed to serve God, not the people. If the people are the ones to choose the pastor, then the pastor is there to serve the people rather than God.”

Pastors are God’s servants to God’s people, but they are not to please people........
Galatians 1:10
“For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi Jiggfly,

If the Scripture is so clear, then how can so many people come up with so many different interpretations from it? How can we be certain who is interpreting Scripture correctly? Already in this forum board, we've had people who say that Jesus is God and others who say that He is not God. We have people who say that we have to follow the dietary laws in Leviticus, and others who interpreted scripture as saying that we don't have to follow it.

In Christ,
Selene

Tis the very reason we are to be led and governed by HolySpirit, He is the one who leads into all truth not the scriptures.

 

[Selene]

Hi Selene

Nice to hear from you again.

You said.....

Not exactly.
The Lord mainly used the Apostles to give us the New Testament..........
Hebrews 2:3-4
V.3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
V.4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were also used to start some Churches.

I noticed you spoke of Apostles, in the present-tense;
The Apostle Paul was the last man to be made an Apostle.

When John finished receiving the Book of Revelation from the Lord, the Apostles work was finished.
--------------------------------------------------
I also noticed that you refer to Paul and Barnabus as “saints”.

Every born again Christian, is a saint just as every Old Testament believer was.
This goes back to the Catholic unbiblical practice of declaring certain people as saints.

Hello Bigape,

I refer to all the Apostles as "Saints." The Apostles were instructed to go out and baptize every nation to the ends of the earth; therefore, their duty was to spread this Good News and bring mankind to God. Yes, I used the Apostles in the "present tense" because they had faith in Christ and Christ did promise that all who have faith in Him will have eternal life. Thus, the Apostles already have eternal life, so they are not dead unless you believe that our Lord was lying about having "eternal life." When a true Christian dies, death does not take away his/her being a Christian. A true Christian remains a Christian even when they die and a true Christian will have eternal life in Heaven as Christ promised. Death has already been conquered by Christ, and that is why I speak of the Apostles in the present tense. The Apostles who believed and have faith in Christ are not dead because Christ did say that He is Truth, the Way, and the Life and those who have faith in Him will not die but have everlasting life.

The Apostles work was never done when they died. It continues on to this day because there are still people who need to receive the Good News. There are still people who are born and have never heard the Word of God because they live in a country where the Holy Bible is banned. As Christians, we are called to continue the work of the Apostles and spread the Good News to all people.

So the point you are making, is that some Church hierarchy needs to place pastors over Churches that need one.
Even though lots of “Churches” do this, that doesn’t make it Biblical.

Actually, it is biblical because it is found in Sacred Scripture. As you can see from Scripture, the bishops are placed to rule the Church.

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Spirit hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There is nothing in the Bible saying that the people are to rule the Church themselves and to choose the pastors and priests. Instead, the Bible tells us that the people in the Church are to obey their pastors or priests.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Surf Rider]

Being born of God, I am OF the church. Since I don't have out of body experiences, then wherever I go, I am in church, especially since it is Christ in me, the hope of glory. The statement of being out of church is only possible when looking at it in a severely limited scope, with a very strong overtone of institutionalization addiction. That can be by ignorance or knowledgeable choice. The OP needs to be restated, for the very foundation of it's premise denies the conclusions that are stated in it. Kind of like a reverse of, "turn on the light so that you can find the lightswitch". Institutionalization addiction is IA. And that is merely the dyslexial evidentiary of AI -- artificial intelligence.

No insult intended. Just a play on words here.

Enjoy!

Tis the very reason we are to be led and governed by HolySpirit, He is the one who leads into all truth not the scriptures.

They listen to the docrine of demons, taught by hypocritical liars, who know not that which they teach, being teachers of themselves. They, and those who listen to them, both fall into the pit.

That's all scriptural. Sometime, someplace, scripture has to fit reality, or it's a lie too.