The Gospel!! What is it?

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marks

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Why is it not the church? It is talking about the salvation of mankind is it not? If not why not?
Ezekiel 36:22-28 KJV
22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This is addressed to the house of Israel. They were scattered to the gentiles, but God will return them to the land that He gave to their fathers. Isn't that national Israel?

Much love!
 

1stCenturyLady

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I'm not sure it is possible to hold both positions simultaneously. Either Christ is the perfection in us, or we are ourselves perfect souls living in mortal bodies. When we are "Born Again" we do receive a New Nature. But as much as it is created to be like Christ it is not perfect as Christ is.

For me, a "New Nature" simply means that our souls have received fresh spiritual life from Christ--not that it is an entirely new, immortal entity living inside a mortal body.
You said: "Are you saying we have sin excised from our flesh,"

Yes, by Jesus. He cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness. That wouldn't be true if he didn't take away the source of sin, the DESIRE to sin in our our nature. A clean nature lets us partake of the divine nature of God.

or are you just saying that we have a pure nature from Christ existing within our sin-infected mortal bodies?

Our mortal body will die because of sin - Adam's sin. But we have a clean nature from Christ AND He lives inside.
By "taking away our sins" John is meaning that *legally* our sins are erased--not that we have in any way become perfect yet.
Not perfect, because that means the maturing also of all the fruit of the Spirit. But we are sinless on day one of having all our sins taken away (not just covered like a screen over a cesspool which is a false teaching). Run from any teacher that uses the word "covered," because that is Old Testament and ignorant.
In context Paul was talking about the complementary aspects of the Law and the Gospel of Grace. Both established righteousness as the rule for Man, since we were all created in the image of God. Both the Law and the Gospel established that reality.

The change from the Law of Moses to the Covenant of Grace was an intended and natural progression, rather than a rebuttal against living by the rules of the Law. Once Christ died for sin, animal sacrifices were no longer needed. But living by the moral guidance of the Spirit of God did not change at all. Again, this has nothing to do with our adopting perfect natures through Christ!
Adopting perfect natures through Christ? It isn't us, but the Author and Finisher of our faith. The difference between the laws of God from the Old to the New Covenants is the Spirit. Under the Old Covenant, the Jews had to keep laws in opposition to their sin nature. In the New Covenant, because of the cleansing of the desire to commit lawlessness out of our nature, and the indwelling Spirit, we keep God's laws naturally.
We agree on our need to be righteous, that we are not "Sinners" in the sense we remain "Sinful" and do not reflect the introduction of Christ's renewing life into our lives.
We are not sinners, period. We are children of God. We "keep ourselves" meaning we obey our conscience. 1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

1 John 3:3 "And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure."

Both of those would be impossible to do with a sin nature present. Once clean, it is easy to keep ourselves that way. The Spirit in us sensitizes us to not sin in the first place. Seeing as abiding in Christ is the reason we can "keep ourselves" we already have the requirement for maturing all the fruit of the Spirit.

I am not teaching Sinless Perfection as that doesn't exist. I teach righteousness which is sinlessness, and is DAY ONE. Then towards the end of our life if we have been abiding in Christ we mature in the fruit and become like Christ - perfect. That is holiness. And both sinlessness and perfection can be in this lifetime. Otherwise when we die, we couldn't be holy as Revelation 22:11 says. It has nothing to do with our body as is taught by false teachers.
This has to do with legal resolutions, and not with our supposed metamorphosis from being a Sinner to being Sinless.
Just as it is not a myth that Jesus died a horrible death, sinlessness is absolutly real. When I was born again in 1977, I literally felt a heaviness lift out of me and I was completely freed of lawlessness. I had been struggling with adultery. The next day I was free. There is no struggle to be righteous after being filled with the Spirit, and this was after 30 years of going to church!
I would phrase it differently. To be holy is to conform our lives to the holiness of God. We simply adopt Christ as our life and forsake the selfishness of human carnality. We avoid wants, lusts, and anything independent of God. Fruit does not make us holy, as such, but is only the result of our choice to conform to God's holiness. If we choose to live in conformity with His will, we will produce His fruit of love and kindness.

You are not the author and finisher of your faith. It is the POWER OF GOD only. Our only involvement is not quenching the Spirit.
 

Godslittleservant

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Acts 19:1-7 KJV
1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

He learned they were disciples and asked if they had received the Holy Spirit. They were ignorant concerning the Holy Spirit.

3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

John's baptism was to prepare people for Jesus, and John directed them to Jesus.

5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

These men accepted Paul's words, and were baptized into the Name of the Lord Jesus.

6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7) And all the men were about twelve.

The first mention of the Holy Spirit is that the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied, when Paul laid hands on them.

Where is there a connection here in this passage of them receiving the Holy Spirit through water baptism? I don't see that. What I see is the Spirit came upon them when Paul laid hands on them.

And this can't be "cast in stone" either, considering no one laid hands on Cornelius.

Much love!
You really missed the main point because of your view. Let us look at this again.
Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed / We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. They have not heard the now completed gospel of the cross only of that of John pointing to the cross

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? if they were believers then they would have been baptized in the name of Christ Acts 2:38 but they had not heard of the cross only Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. See what baptism we are baptized into does matter. We are to be baptized into the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with and it is according to Paul the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38 which is the one that gives the spirit.
When they heard the complete gospel they believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38

Now when Paul had taken care of their salvation he laid hands on them to give them the gifts to grow the church he just established through the word of God.
Verse 6 was not to give the spirit that was done according to Paul in the baptism in Christ name. I was not the spirit coming upon them as it was with the Apostles and Cornelius but by the laying on of hands so that is not the way some teach the baptism of the holy ghost they do not compare as scripture makes it clear. What some call the baptism of the holy ghost where the spirit supernaturally came on a few without any help from man is not what happened here. We have to read scripture for what is said not through our preconceived ideals.
 

Godslittleservant

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Ezekiel 36:22-28 KJV
22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This is addressed to the house of Israel. They were scattered to the gentiles, but God will return them to the land that He gave to their fathers. Isn't that national Israel?

Much love!
Yes before the completion of the plan came about so why can they not be restored the same way now as the rest of all other nations?
 

marks

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Yes before the completion of the plan came about so why can they not be restored the same way now as the rest of all other nations?
I believe that Biblical Prophecy is perfect, and will be fulfilled. Do you believe this prophecy will be fulfilled, or do you think it is abrogated?

Much love!
 
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Godslittleservant

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Good God man I dealt with them, i even explained them to you multiple times

You want to boast about you saving yourself because you allowed some man to immerse you in water. Thats your right

i will boast in God who baptized me into himself..
No I am sorry you have not shown me where Paul was lying about the spirit being given in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ I am still waiting for your scriptures that prove he lied You seem to just want me to take your word for it but I will take Paul's word over your unless you prove him wrong.
 

Godslittleservant

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I believe that Biblical Prophecy is perfect, and will be fulfilled. Do you believe this prophecy will be fulfilled, or do you think it is abrogated?

Much love!
I know it will be fulfilled not just sure you have it all figured out correctly therefore we must let the bible solve our difference.
 

marks

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Narrative passages tell you what happened at that time, with those people, and do not always tell you why. Teaching passages give instructions to us.

Much love!
 

Eternally Grateful

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No I am sorry you have not shown me where Paul was lying about the spirit being given in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ I am still waiting for your scriptures that prove he lied You seem to just want me to take your word for it but I will take Paul's word over your unless you prove him wrong.
Just because you do not see it does not mean it is not true

Once again, You want to boast of saving yourself by allowing a man to baptize you in water. feel free

I will boast In God, who baptized me into himself.
 
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marks

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again what time?
Narrative passages give you the historical account of what people did in those days, in that particular instance, and don't always tell you why they did what they did, and what it meant.

Teaching passages, those which are directed towards us, give us specific instruction about what we are to do, and why.

Paul in particular gives much detailed information so we can understand these things.

Much love!
 

Godslittleservant

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Just because you do not see it does not mean it is not true

Once again, You want to boast of saving yourself by allowing a man to baptize you in water. feel free

I will boast In God, who baptized me into himself.
Please Please show me why Paul is not telling the truth you boast in your understanding now is your chance to shine
 

marks

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Ok to many different things going on what was this in response to was it Acts 19
It's in reponse to you saying that I was really missing the main point because of my view. I didn't see you inside my head, so how would you know? Maybe it's you who is missing the main point because of your view. I figured if we are going to bandy about who is and is not blinded by their preconceptions . . . maybe I could play too!

But then again, that's not what I tend to do . . .

Much love!