The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power

[marksman]

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

I can't see anywhere in these two verses where it says tongues will cease.

 

[marksman]

I understand your reaction. It took a long time for me to arrive at where I am now.

Judging by your posts, you don't understand anything except your own biased opinion not backed up by scripture.

 

[marksman]

What are the fruits of the Spirit? What if they are missing?

If you want to discuss the fruits of the Spirit, I suggest you start another thread.

 

[marksman]

The original gift of tongues edified the speaker because they understood what they were saying. And needed to interpret so the rest could understand and be edified.

Wrong again. The scripture says ANOTHER ONE interprets.

 

[marksman]

You have said this often Dave...why?
Where does it say that?

I have not met any one who "knows what they are saying"....
That is why we speak in tongues in the service and the member with the gift of interpretation then speaks it out for the assembly. Every joint supplying.

In private we pray in tongues, we do not know what we are saying...we can have a strong understand whether it is a prayer burden, or a overflowing of joy and thanksgiving to The Father...

Paul says in the church he spoke with the understanding..he was a teacher..but he also said "I speak in tongues more than ye all..."
Even a 8 yr old can see that if he spoke with the understanding in the meetings , then his speaking in tongues 'more than ye all' was in Paul's private life.

I have understood why you threw it all out. You had foolish and immature teachers. 'you were ruined' for the gifts..they will answer for that.

But why you hit those of us so brutally hard which did not have idiot shepherds like you...I don't understand.
Just because I got sold a bad egg, I would not go around telling everyone I met that all eggs are bad.

Idiot shepherds!! I like it.

 

[marksman]

I agree, but scripture out paces the gifts, doing completely what they could only do in part.

That does not prove they passed away. I am still waiting for your evidence, not speculation.

 

[marksman]

@marksman Since you are into church history, do you have anything on the voodoo element in early Pentecostalism? I'm interested in learning more about this.

I am not interested so do your own research.

 

[marksman]

Quite a history of scandal there depending on your resources. Lots of glossing over too.

Such a silly comment and not one that proves the gifts and tongues were done away with. I guess I will have to accept you don't seem to be attracting any likes. Grace has done me proud in that respect.

 

[marksman]

You need to have scripture tell you what to believe. Have you ever studied the roots of Pentecostalism in 1900s America? Some pretty seed characters involved.

I am sorry but I can't find the story of the roots of Pentecostalism in 1900s America in scripture.

And what is a seed character?

 

[Berserk]

REPLY TO THE OBJECTION THAT SPEAKING IN TONGUES IN THE NT CHURCH ALWAYS EXPRESSED HUMAN LANGUAGES.

Of the many modern examples that might be given, I have posted 3 very helpful and comforting examples familiar to me of tongues in modern languages similar to the unique case of Acts 2. Indeed, we have more evidence for modern glossolalia as modern languages than we have cases in the NT church of glossolalia as human languages.

But the tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 are NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18, citing Joel 2:28), but speaking in tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12 and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. So for all we know, those 2 eruptions of glossolalia were no different than their modern counterpart. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: “glossai”) is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as “zealots of spirits (14:12),” a phrase that means “zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7).” Jews in Paul’s day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages (e. g. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai and Testament of Job).

 

[Dave L]

I am sorry but I can't find the story of the roots of Pentecostalism in 1900s America in scripture.

And what is a seed character?

Search Voodoo Pentecostalism on the net.

 

[Dave L]

Such a silly comment and not one that proves the gifts and tongues were done away with. I guess I will have to accept you don't seem to be attracting any likes. Grace has done me proud in that respect.

We prove the gifts have ceased long ago to those who consider scripture above denominationalism.

 

[Dave L]

I am not interested so do your own research.

You need to consider this. It's pretty serious.

 

[Dave L]

Wrong again. The scripture says ANOTHER ONE interprets.

But the tongues speakers knew what they were saying because they were edified. And Paul says understanding what was said was the basis for edification.

 

[Dave L]

If you want to discuss the fruits of the Spirit, I suggest you start another thread.

All believers have the fruits of the Holy Spirit. It is the charismatic gifts that ceased.

 

[Dave L]

I can't see anywhere in these two verses where it says tongues will cease.

It says only the apostles passed them out beyond the two outpourings. No apostles = no gifts.

 

[Dave L]

REPLY TO THE OBJECTION THAT SPEAKING IN TONGUES IN THE NT CHURCH ALWAYS EXPRESSED HUMAN LANGUAGES.

Of the many modern examples that might be given, I have posted 3 very helpful and comforting examples familiar to me of tongues in modern languages similar to the unique case of Acts 2. Indeed, we have more evidence for modern glossolalia as modern languages than we have cases in the NT church of glossolalia as human languages.

But the tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 are NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18, citing Joel 2:28), but speaking in tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12 and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. So for all we know, those 2 eruptions of glossolalia were no different than their modern counterpart. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: “glossai”) is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as “zealots of spirits (14:12),” a phrase that means “zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7).” Jews in Paul’s day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages (e. g. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai and Testament of Job).

Scripture does not support tongues as being human languages. Paul says; “For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2)

The early Pentecostals tripped up on this and revealed their error from the start. The Apostles spoke to God in a tongue at Pentecost. And the devout Jews also received the gift of interpretation. Each hearing the singular tongues in their own native tongue.

 

[bbyrd009]

But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart

That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvar

um ok

 

[bbyrd009]

We prove the gifts have ceased long ago to those who consider scripture above denominationalism.

You do, huh. ok. Just bc you prove it doesn't mean it's true ok?

 

[marksman]

It says only the apostles passed them out beyond the two outpourings. No apostles = no gifts.

Can't see where it says tongues will cease.