The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

[Keraz]

You are taking the text too literally and it's causing you to resort to the ridiculous notion that Isaiah introduced the topic of the new heavens and new earth in verse 17 only to change the topic in the very next verse. Ridiculous! No, he did not.

Imagine someone trying to tell you that John changed the topic he introduced in Revelation 21:1 in the very next verse. What would you think of that? Be honest.

We are told how the Prophesies are mixed up. Isaiah 28:13....a little here, a little there.
Isaiah 65:17 says how there will be a new heaven and earth. We are told when they will come in Revelation 21.

Isaiah 65:18-25 BUT; you be glad and rejoice, for I will rejoice over My people, long lived .....they will build houses and eat the fruitful produce of the Land.......in peace and prosperity. Mortal peoples, living on the old earth.
This passage does not relate to the Eternal state, as described in Revelation 21 to 22.

Of course; the rejection of the Millennium, is your problem. You cannot, in all honesty, make Isaiah 65:18-25 fit with Eternity.

 

[Keraz]

So you believe the comprehension of the future determine ones destiny

No. Another jump to a wrong conclusion.

Our destiny is decided by our faith and trust in the Lord for His protection as we pass thru all that must happen. 1 Peter 4:12
My posts are aimed at informing people about what God has planned for the end times. That will be a great help to get through it all and to see the glorious Return of Jesus. Luke 21:25-28

 

[Keraz]

The Redemption of the Lord’s people, by Isaiah ben Amos:

Now: The Israel of God is everyone who believes in God and accepts the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16, Romans 2:9-10

Isaiah, the Lord’s servant – his task is to prophesy the restoration of the 12 tribes of Jacob, to bring back the survivors of Israel, so that the Lord’s salvation may reach all of the earth.1

The remnant of Judah left in Zion will be called holy, when the Lord cleanses the Land by a spirit of judgement burning like fire.2 The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength on the Day the Lord saves His people.3 Then His glory will provide a refuge and shelter. On that Day, a remnant of Israel, the survivors of Jacob will return to God, their strength. 4

On that Day, the Lord will exert His power a second time to recover the remnant of His people from the four corners of the earth. He will make a signal to the nations and gather those dispersed from Judah and Israel. Enmity between Judah and Israel will cease.5

Listen, in silence, My people in the coasts and islands, together we go to the place of judgement. Israel, My servants summoned from the ends of the earth, the furthest corners. Have no fear, you will be strengthened and helped, upheld by My Right hand.6

I shall give descendants to Israel and Judah, heirs to my chosen people, they will take possession of My Land. Those who forsake the Lord are destined for the sword. 7

Go out, clear a road for My people, hoist a signal, see your deliverance comes. Comfort My people, their term of bondage is served, their penalty paid. Clear a road through the desert for the Lord – level the ground. I am about to do something new, can you see it? I shall make a way through the desert and I shall provide water so that My people may drink. They will praise Me.8

For a passing moment, I forsook you, but with tender affection, I shall bring you home again. I swear that My covenant of peace will never be shaken. 9

Arise and shine, Jerusalem, your sons and daughters are coming from afar – sailing along like clouds, vessels from the coasts and islands, returning your children from distant places, to the honour of God, for He has given you glory.10

They are coming from far away. My holy Land, not forgotten, it is inscribed onto the palms of My hands. All your children are assembling, flooding back to the Land. So many that the place is too cramped. The nations will bear your sons and daughters in their arms. None who look to Me will be disappointed. 11

You will go out with joy, be led forth in peace. The Land and trees will be joyful and thriving. I, the Lord, will provide for their needs.12

He who makes Me his refuge will possess the Land. Peace for all, both far and near, I shall heal Israel, says the Lord. The Lords people, set free, will come back in triumph. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will flee away. 13

A spirit from on high is sent upon us. Justice and righteousness in the Land, His people are living happy and peaceful. 14

I am Almighty God, for My sake, I will wipe out your transgressions. Israel, never forget Me.15 You are My witnesses, My servants, chosen by Me. Trust Me and know that I am your God.16 The Lord will make a new Covenant with Israel.17

Buildings will be restored, rebuilt on ancient foundations. If you keep the Commandments, then you will find joy in the Lord and the Land of your father, Jacob, will be yours to enjoy.18 Others will serve you, while you become priests of the Lord, and will enjoy the wealth of the nations.19 Ref: REB. Verses abridged.



1/ Isaiah 49:5-6 – The Redemption, Restoration and Rejoining of all Israel: now every true Christian, by descent or grafted in by reason of righteousness. Galatians 3:26-29, Deuteronomy 30:1-10, Jeremiah 31:7-9, Ezekiel 37:1-28, Acts 26:6-7, Ephesians 2:11-18

2/ Isaiah 4:3-6 - All of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, but a remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 21:4, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 7:34, Zephaniah 1:18, Micah 5:11, Jeremiah 4:26-28, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 29:4, Zechariah 13:8-9

3/ Isaiah 30:26a – A Coronal Mass Ejection will explode out from the sun, literally fulfilling all the many prophesies about this forthcoming Day of the Lord’s wrath. Deut. 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 66:15-16, Psalms 97:3-5, Malachi 4:1,3, Jer. 25:33, Rev. 6:12-17

4/ Isaiah 10:20-21 – The Lord promises protection for His people and all who call upon His Name, on that Day. Joel 3:16, Isaiah 26:20-21, Zeph.2:3, Zech.9:15-16, Prov. 3:25-26

5/ Isaiah 11:11-13 – The exile punishment of the 12 tribes of Judah, the Jews and Israel, scattered among the Western nations, will be completed. Isaiah 40:1-2, 2 Chronicles 6:36-39, Jeremiah 29:13-14

6/ Isaiah 41:1-10 - They will re-join and gather at the place of judgement in preparation to enter the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-36, Isaiah 27:12-13, Amos 3:9

7/ Isaiah 65:9-12- Those judged righteous will take possession of the holy Land, Those who forsake the Lord will die. Ezekiel 20:37-38, Jeremiah 5:26, Isaiah 1:25, Isa. 10:17-22

8/ Isaiah 62:10, Isaiah 40:1-3, Isaiah 43:19-21 – The Lord’s people will march into the Land with great joy and thanksgiving. Psalms 68:7-9 & 19-27, Isaiah 42:16, Isaiah 40:26-31

9/ Isaiah 54:7-10 – The punishment by exile for Israel and Judah was for a decreed period. Now the Lord will make a new Covenant with them. Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 11:26-28, Hebrews 8:10-17

10/ Isaiah 60:1-9, Isaiah 49:8-23 – His Christian people, brought into the holy Land, all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Many millions; all true believers in the Lord. Isaiah 66:18-20, Zechariah 10:8-10, Micah 7:11-12, Isaiah 49:1-23

11/ Isaiah 49:14-21 - The Lord did [will] devastate and depopulate all the Holy Land, but now it is too small for all My righteous people. Psalms 83, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Micah 7:11-13, Rev.7:9

12/ Isaiah 55:12-13, Isaiah 41:17 – The Lord will send rain and the Land will be regenerated. He will provide food and water in plenty. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Isa. 35:1-2, Psalms 68:7-10

13/ Isaiah 57:13 & 19 At the present time, Judah has possession of a part of the holy Land, but soon all the Lord’s Christian people will live in all their heritage in peace and prosperity. Hosea 2:14-23, Psalms 69:22-36, Ezekiel 28:24-26, Revelation 7:9-10

14/ Isaiah 32:15-16, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 35:10 - God’s Spirit is sent onto His people. The Lord will heal them spiritually and physically. Psalms 126:1-5, Psalms 147:2-3, Isaiah 30:26b, Isaiah 44:1-5, Ezekiel 11:19-20, Ezekiel 37:1-14, Acts 2:17-21

15/ Isaiah 44:22 – Their sins are forgiven. 1 Kings 8:46-52, Psalms 79:8-9, Micah 7:18, Hosea 14:1-7, John 1:29, Hebrews 8:12

16/ Isaiah 43:10-11 – All this will happen in the end times, before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign. They will be ‘a light to the nations’ and will send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7

17/ Isaiah 59:21 – The Mosaic Covenant is superseded by a New Covenant. Jer. 31:31-34, Jer. 32:36-41, Hosea 2:19-23, Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 8:7-13

18/ Isaiah 58:12-14 – They will build a new Temple on Mt Zion. Ezekiel 40-44, Haggai 2:6-9, Zechariah 1:16-17, Zech. 6:15, Zech. 8:9, 2 Thess. 2:3-4, Revelation 11:1

19/ Isaiah 61:5-6 – Amazing promises of God to His people in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-24, Hosea 14:4-7, Psalms 102:15-22, Colossians 1:11-12

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are told how the Prophesies are mixed up. Isaiah 28:13....a little here, a little there.

LOL. Thinking that he introduced a topic in Isaiah 65:17 only to change it in the very next verse sis not what Isaiah 28:13 is talking about.

Isaiah 65:17 says how there will be a new heaven and earth. We are told when they will come in Revelation 21.

Isaiah 65:18-25 BUT; you be glad and rejoice, for I will rejoice over My people, long lived .....they will build houses and eat the fruitful produce of the Land.......in peace and prosperity. Mortal peoples, living on the old earth.
This passage does not relate to the Eternal state, as described in Revelation 21 to 22.

Of course; the rejection of the Millennium, is your problem. You cannot, in all honesty, make Isaiah 65:18-25 fit with Eternity.

Yes, I can, and I have. Unlike your dishonest approach, I acknowledge that Isaiah 65:18-25 relates to the new heavens and new earth because that is what Isaiah is talking about in that passage. He does not change the subject after verse 17.

 

[Keraz]

LOL. Thinking that he introduced a topic in Isaiah 65:17 only to change it in the very next verse sis not what Isaiah 28:13 is talking about.


Yes, I can, and I have. Unlike your dishonest approach, I acknowledge that Isaiah 65:18-25 relates to the new heavens and new earth because that is what Isaiah is talking about in that passage. He does not change the subject after verse 17.

The belief of Isaiah 65:18-25, being how it will be for Eternity, directly contradicts Revelation 21 & 22::1-5.....,.Only those whose names are inscribed in the Book of Life, shall enter. ......Every accursed thing shall disappear....

It is your wrong approach which is dishonest and is in error.
You need to tone down your comments and more than that; really study Bible truths, gain proper understanding and cease making wild assertions. Start with Matthew 22:29-30

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The belief of Isaiah 65:18-25, being how it will be for Eternity, directly contradicts Revelation 21 & 22::1-5.....,.Only those whose names are inscribed in the Book of Life, shall enter. ......Every accursed thing shall disappear....

Your interpretation of that passage directly contradicts Revelation 21 and 22 which should make you aware that you are misinterpreting that passage. Resorting to trying to say it doesn't relate to the new heavens and new earth is a case of blatantly twisting scripture to fit your doctrine. Any unbiased person can easily see that the topic of the new heavens and new earth is introduced in Isaiah 65:17 and then described in more detail in verses 18-25. But, that detail is mostly figurative, unlike Revelation 21:1-5 where John straightforwardly declares that there will be no more death on the new earth.

Compare Isaiah 65:17-19 to Revelation 21:1-4 and note the obvious similarities. They are so clearly speaking of the same thing, yet you deny that.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

By making Isaiah 65:18-25 about a supposed future thousand years on earth, you have to come to the conclusion that there will be a future time when death is still occurring, but people will no longer mourn anyone's death. Are you comfortable with having that belief that people will one day no longer weep or cry when a loved one dies?

It is your wrong approach which is dishonest and is in error.

It's dishonest to not try to think that Isaiah introduced a new topic in Isaiah 65:17 only to then immediately change the topic in the next verse? No, I don't think so.

You need to tone down your comments and more than that; really study Bible truths, gain proper understanding and cease making wild assertions. Start with Matthew 22:29-30

I have done that and I still disagree with you, so our disagreement is not because I have not studied the Bible enough. I've studied it just as much as you have.

 

[soberxp]

1/ Our situation for the last 2000 years and now:
The acceptance of Christianity by many people, but mainly those actually descended from the House of Israel -the ten Northern tribes.
This is the fulfilment of Jesus' Promise; Matthew 15:24 and of the OT Prophets about the restoration of Israel, but Spiritually, not genetic. Ezekiel 37:1-14, Ephesians 2:11-18 They will inherit the Kingdom. Matthew 21:42

2/ Soon to happen:
The terrible world changer of the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Revelation 6:12-17
All of the faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
They will at last be the people God always wanted there. His Witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:6, Matthew 5:14-16

3/ Jesus Returns:
All the wicked peoples will be destroyed. The Christian peoples will live in peace and prosperity, under the benign Kingship of Jesus. People will still marry, procreate and die, albeit, living much longer and disease free lives. Isaiah 65:20
At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released and he will be successful in convincing many to rebel against Jesus. Revelation 20:7-9
It is most likely all of the original people in the Millennium will have died by then. All the martyrs killed during the 42 months of world Satanic control and raised back to mortal life, as well. This will be their second death, as Revelation 13:5-7 & 20:6 explains. The second death as per Rev 20:14, applies to the wicked. God will burn up all of those rebels and Satan as well. He will Judge everyone who has ever lived, Revelation 20:11-15, including those who are alive and remain at that time. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

4/ Eternity:
Those whose name are found in the Book of Life, will go with God into Eternity, as Spiritual beings. Mark 12:25, Revelation 21:1-7, in the New Jerusalem.

I don't know where you get these ideas from.
Don't try to understand the prophecies in the Bible because there are false prophets. What is a false prophet? I think the name is accurate.

 

[Keraz]

It's dishonest to not try to think that Isaiah introduced a new topic in Isaiah 65:17 only to then immediately change the topic in the next verse? No, I don't think so.

Isaiah 65:20 says; people will die. This can only be during the Millennium,
Revelation 21:4 says; Death will be no more. This can only be for the Eternal state.

Your beliefs contradict plainly stated scripture. Happy with that?

 

[Keraz]

I don't know where you get these ideas from.
Don't try to understand the prophecies in the Bible because there are false prophets. What is a false prophet? I think the name is accurate.

Who needs to 'sober up'?
I quote what the Prophetic Word says. It is the truth and the unfulfilled Prophesies will literally take place, [allegories excepted] as the fulfilled Prophesies have done.
False prophets teach fables and lies and many people have fallen for them, to their discredit. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isaiah 65:20 says; people will die. This can only be during the Millennium,
Revelation 21:4 says; Death will be no more. This can only be for the Eternal state.

Your beliefs contradict plainly stated scripture. Happy with that?

Of course I'm not happy with your false statement. You are apparently too afraid to address what I said about the similarities between Isaiah 65:17-19 and Revelation 21:1-4. Why is that? You don't think you need to address why it is that you believe Isaiah 65:20 is talking about death occurring at the same time when people are no longer weeping or crying? You expect us to believe that people will no longer mourn at some point when a loved one dies?

Why are you happy with interpreting Isaiah 65:20 in such a way that completely contradicts what is written in the verses that immediately precede it?

 

[Keraz]

You don't think you need to address why it is that you believe Isaiah 65:20 is talking about death occurring at the same time when people are no longer weeping or crying? You expect us to believe that people will no longer mourn at some point when a loved one dies?

there will be no more weeping and distress in the Millennium, because no infant will die and people will live for long and useful lives. Isaiah 65:18-25
No infant will die.....; there are births and deaths.
Long and useful lives..... Even today, a person like that is celebrated and their funeral is not a sad occasion.

You are dictating to Isaiah and to God for telling us about the New heavens and earth, before the description of the Millennium. Not wise.
We are expected to use our intelligence to properly sort out the Prophesies sequence.
In fact, the ONLY actual sequence of end times events, is the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls of Revelation. All the rest is 'a little here, a little there'.

Why are you happy with interpreting Isaiah 65:20 in such a way that completely contradicts what is written in the verses that immediately precede it?

There is no contradiction:
Verse 17 simply states; God is Creating a new heaven and earth. WE know when it will come to us; Revelation 21:1-7
Verses 18-25, then gives us a beautiful picture of the thousand year rule of King Jesus.

I set out the scripturally correct sequence in the OP.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

there will be no more weeping and distress in the Millennium, because no infant will die and people will live for long and useful lives. Isaiah 65:18-25
No infant will die.....; there are births and deaths.
Long and useful lives..... Even today, a person like that is celebrated and their funeral is not a sad occasion.

LOL. You have to be kidding me with this argument. You think grandchildren don't weep when their grandparents die just because they were old? That's nonsense. Children of old parents cry when their parents die no matter how old they are. You are not honest enough to acknowledge the contradiction you create in your interpretation of Isaiah 65:18-19 compared to your interpretation of Isaiah 65:20.

You are dictating to Isaiah and to God for telling us about the New heavens and earth, before the description of the Millennium. Not wise.

You are making it so that no one will be sad when someone dies during this imaginary future millennium you believe in. Not wise.

We are expected to use our intelligence to properly sort out the Prophesies sequence.

So, you should start doing that then.

In fact, the ONLY actual sequence of end times events, is the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls of Revelation. All the rest is 'a little here, a little there'.

LOL. Nonsense. In your mind "a little here, a little there" means every verse in scripture related to end time events except in Revelation starts a new sequence of events. LOL. Give me a break.

There is no contradiction:
Verse 17 simply states; God is Creating a new heaven and earth. WE know when it will come to us; Revelation 21:1-7
Verses 18-25, then gives us a beautiful picture of the thousand year rule of King Jesus.

I set out the scripturally correct sequence in the OP.

I can't take you seriously. Imagine someone saying that Revelation 21:2-5 is not related to the new heavens and new earth. That's what it's like for you to deny that Isaiah 65:18-25 is about the new heavens and new earth.

 

[quietthinker]

1/ Our situation for the last 2000 years and now:
The acceptance of Christianity by many people, but mainly those actually descended from the House of Israel -the ten Northern tribes.
This is the fulfilment of Jesus' Promise; Matthew 15:24 and of the OT Prophets about the restoration of Israel, but Spiritually, not genetic. Ezekiel 37:1-14, Ephesians 2:11-18 They will inherit the Kingdom. Matthew 21:42

2/ Soon to happen:
The terrible world changer of the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Revelation 6:12-17
All of the faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
They will at last be the people God always wanted there. His Witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:6, Matthew 5:14-16

3/ Jesus Returns:
All the wicked peoples will be destroyed. The Christian peoples will live in peace and prosperity, under the benign Kingship of Jesus. People will still marry, procreate and die, albeit, living much longer and disease free lives. Isaiah 65:20
At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released and he will be successful in convincing many to rebel against Jesus. Revelation 20:7-9
It is most likely all of the original people in the Millennium will have died by then. All the martyrs killed during the 42 months of world Satanic control and raised back to mortal life, as well. This will be their second death, as Revelation 13:5-7 & 20:6 explains. The second death as per Rev 20:14, applies to the wicked. God will burn up all of those rebels and Satan as well. He will Judge everyone who has ever lived, Revelation 20:11-15, including those who are alive and remain at that time. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

4/ Eternity:
Those whose name are found in the Book of Life, will go with God into Eternity, as Spiritual beings. Mark 12:25, Revelation 21:1-7, in the New Jerusalem.

Sooo, when are you moving to the holy land Keraz?

 

[Keraz]

Sooo, when are you moving to the holy land Keraz?

Soon after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East region. Deuteronomy 32:34-43
As Isaiah 66:15-21 describes. [Note; S.I., that this Prophecy is in the proper sequence. Note too, how the Lord swears by His Promise of the NHNE, to come later. Isaiah 66:22]

The best Prophecy about our going to live in the holy Land, is Psalms 107. The thread; Living in the Holy Land, gives more detail.

 

[quietthinker]

Soon after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East region. Deuteronomy 32:34-43
As Isaiah 66:15-21 describes. [Note; S.I., that this Prophecy is in the proper sequence. Note too, how the Lord swears by His Promise of the NHNE, to come later. Isaiah 66:22]

The best Prophecy about our going to live in the holy Land, is Psalms 107. The thread; Living in the Holy Land, gives more detail.

I guess the larger majority of those calling themselves Christians also have their focus on Israel with intensity. The determination of interpreting events in Israel as a priority tells me they do not interpret Jesus as a priority. If they did, Jesus would shine as the focus, however, the language used denies this.