The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

[Keraz]

1/ Our situation for the last 2000 years and now:
The acceptance of Christianity by many people, but mainly those actually descended from the House of Israel -the ten Northern tribes.
This is the fulfilment of Jesus' Promise; Matthew 15:24 and of the OT Prophets about the restoration of Israel, but Spiritually, not genetic. Ezekiel 37:1-14, Ephesians 2:11-18 They will inherit the Kingdom. Matthew 21:42

2/ Soon to happen:
The terrible world changer of the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Revelation 6:12-17
All of the faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
They will at last be the people God always wanted there. His Witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:6, Matthew 5:14-16

3/ Jesus Returns:
All the wicked peoples will be destroyed. The Christian peoples will live in peace and prosperity, under the benign Kingship of Jesus. People will still marry, procreate and die, albeit, living much longer and disease free lives. Isaiah 65:20
At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released and he will be successful in convincing many to rebel against Jesus. Revelation 20:7-9
It is most likely all of the original people in the Millennium will have died by then. All the martyrs killed during the 42 months of world Satanic control and raised back to mortal life, as well. This will be their second death, as Revelation 13:5-7 & 20:6 explains. The second death as per Rev 20:14, applies to the wicked. God will burn up all of those rebels and Satan as well. He will Judge everyone who has ever lived, Revelation 20:11-15, including those who are alive and remain at that time. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

4/ Eternity:
Those whose name are found in the Book of Life, will go with God into Eternity, as Spiritual beings. Mark 12:25, Revelation 21:1-7, in the New Jerusalem.

 

[quietthinker]

1/ Our situation for the last 2000 years and now:
The acceptance of Christianity by many people, but mainly those actually descended from the House of Israel -the ten Northern tribes.
This is the fulfilment of Jesus' Promise; Matthew 15:24 and of the OT Prophets about the restoration of Israel, but Spiritually, not genetic. Ezekiel 37:1-14, Ephesians 2:11-18 They will inherit the Kingdom. Matthew 21:42

2/ Soon to happen:
The terrible world changer of the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Revelation 6:12-17
All of the faithful Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
They will at last be the people God always wanted there. His Witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:6, Matthew 5:14-16

3/ Jesus Returns:
All the wicked peoples will be destroyed. The Christian peoples will live in peace and prosperity, under the benign Kingship of Jesus. People will still marry, procreate and die, albeit, living much longer and disease free lives. Isaiah 65:20
At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released and he will be successful in convincing many to rebel against Jesus. Revelation 20:7-9
It is most likely all of the original people in the Millennium will have died by then. All the martyrs killed during the 42 months of world Satanic control and raised back to mortal life, as well. This will be their second death, as Revelation 13:5-7 & 20:6 explains. The second death as per Rev 20:14, applies to the wicked. God will burn up all of those rebels and Satan as well. He will Judge everyone who has ever lived, Revelation 20:11-15, including those who are alive and remain at that time. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

4/ Eternity:
Those whose name are found in the Book of Life, will go with God into Eternity, as Spiritual beings. Mark 12:25, Revelation 21:1-7, in the New Jerusalem.

You have set yourself up for a terrible deception Keraz. Of course you will deny it because of the pride that accompanies your reluctance to see anything apart from your own view. You have sold objectivity for subjectivity.

 

[Keraz]

You have set yourself up for a terrible deception Keraz. Of course you will deny it because of the pride that accompanies your reluctance to see anything apart from your own view. You have sold objectivity for subjectivity.

Any proper rebuttal, or is it just that you don't like it?

How is what I post 'my own view', when I have supported it with many scriptures?

 

[quietthinker]

Any proper rebuttal, or is it just that you don't like it?

How is what I post 'my own view', when I have supported it with many scriptures?

I gave an answer to your question here Keraz but it was deleted by Admin as inappropriate. Hmmmm, I wonder what triggered that?

 

[Keraz]

I gave an answer to your question here Keraz but it was deleted by Admin as inappropriate. Hmmmm, I wonder what triggered that?

If you can't make sensible comments, or refute what I post with scripture, then keep quiet and think on Bible truths.

 

[quietthinker]

If you can't make sensible comments, or refute what I post with scripture, then keep quiet and think on Bible truths.

Even if I refute it with scripture Keraz, you refuse to take it seriously.
I see, so you read my reply but instead of responding, you reported it. Is that the case?

 

[Keraz]

I see, so you read my reply but instead of responding, you reported it. Is that the case?

Yes, because your posts are just negative and unhelpful.
And you violated Forum rules by accusing me of being unchristian.

Even if I refute it with scripture Keraz, you refuse to take it seriously.

I take all scripture seriously. You have yet to make any valid rebuttal of any of my posts, Biblical or even sensible.

If you don't like what the Prophets tell us about our future; why be on the eschatology forum?

Just FYI, on other forums where I have posted the OP of this thread, there has been no replies. Like you, people are unable to refute it.
This is very telling and shows how the Lord has hidden His plans from all who have chosen false beliefs, like a 'rapture to heaven'. Matthew 11:25-26, 2 Timothy 3:3-4

 

[Keraz]

This applies to all of us:

While knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church. Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. (1 Corinthians 8:1b-2 NLT)

If you think you know a lot, you over-estimate yourself. Proud knowledge is the greatest proof of our ignorance.

Those from whom I have learned the most, are people who are most humble. Albert Einstein once said, “The definition of genius is taking the complex and making it simple.” The trait of a good teacher is to take a subject that is difficult for most people to understand and make it understandable to almost everyone. In my university experience, I have had professors who seemed to try and take simple things and make them complex. If you are constantly speaking over people’s heads, you are not teaching them, you are endeavouring to impress them. Einstein further commented, “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.”

The commentator Matthew Henry once wrote, “There is no proof of ignorance that is more common than proud knowledge. Those who understand their own ignorance are ones who know best.” God is the source of all knowledge. When we believe that knowledge comes through our great intellect or is expressed only through our eloquent words, we are becoming a fool. Proverbs 9:18 tells us that “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” Without God, we know nothing.

The Apostle Paul was often criticized for his lack of eloquence. He responded by saying he only sought to know Christ and him, crucified. The power of the Gospel speaks for itself. Proud knowledge is the language of fools and only broadcasts our ignorance.
Ref: Ken Barnes

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, because your posts are just negative and unhelpful.
And you violated Forum rules by accusing me of being unchristian.

hmmm, I see, and this course of action doesn't tell me how you're wired Keraz? hmmmm

Just FYI, on other forums where I have posted the OP of this thread, there has been no replies. Like you, people are unable to refute it.
This is very telling and shows how the Lord has hidden His plans from all who have chosen false beliefs, like a 'rapture to heaven'. Matthew 11:25-26, 2 Timothy 3:3-4

Your pride has disabled your eyesight Keraz. Could it be possible that lack of refutation is not because it cannot be refuted but more along the lines of Proverbs 26:4-5

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

 

[Keraz]

Your pride has disabled your eyesight Keraz. Could it be possible that lack of refutation is not because it cannot be refuted but more along the lines of Proverbs 26:4-5

Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

No; the reason is that people are locked into their delusions and made incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
The truths of Prophecy don't suit their fixed beliefs, but they are unable to refute them.

The verse which applies to those who disagree, by their opinion or by belief in incredible fables; without scriptural support is: Matthew 7:6

 

[quietthinker]

No; the reason is that people are locked into their delusions and made incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
The truths of Prophecy don't suit their fixed beliefs, but they are unable to refute them.

The verse which applies to those who disagree, by their opinion or by belief in incredible fables; without scriptural support is: Matthew 7:6

What about your fixed beliefs with the decisions and actions that flow from it, are they exempt?

 

[Keraz]

What about your fixed beliefs with the decisions and actions that flow from it, are they exempt?

I will stand before God in Judgment; like everyone.

The original plan of God was to have a people who would be His witnesses and be His Light to the nations. Ancient Israel failed in this mission, they were sent into exile, but only for a decreed time of punishment. Ezekiel 4:4-6 There are two groups: Israel and Judah. Judah have returned to a portion of the holy Land, but in unbelief and Israel remains scattered among the nations. Also many gentile people have been grafted into Israel through the New Covenant of Jesus.
Now the exile of Israel is over, but they; now every true righteous Christian person, Galatians 3:26-29, cannot go to their heritage, as all the holy Land is inhabited by atheists, Muslims and people with all kinds of ungodly beliefs and false religions. What is God to do?
The same as He did in Noah's day: wipe them out, only this time by fire from the sun. Isaiah 66:5-17, Isaiah 30:26-39, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17 The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, as prophesied in over 100 Bible passages: the means, the effects and the results.

This Day will be triggered by the commencement of an attack on Israel, from all directions by a confederation of nations and entities. Psalms 83:1-18 Iran will prepare their nuke missiles, Isaiah 22:6, but at the moment of firing, the Lord will destroy them by the powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from an explosion of the sun. Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35, Ezekiel 32:24-25, Deuteronomy 32:22
24 hours later the main mass of this Coronal Mass Ejection will arrive on earth. It will mainly affect the Middle East region killing all life except a remnant of the Jews in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3
The rest of the world will see it coming and will hide among the rocks and in caves, Isaiah 2:21, Luke 23:30, Revelation 6:16, so most will survive.
Luke 21:25-26 ...signs will appear in the sun....people will stand helpless, not knowing which way to turn....They will faint with terror as they see what is coming. Luke 21:28 When you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near.
The Return of Jesus, mentioned in verse 27 happens later, as we know from the sequence in Revelation. Jesus does not Return in fire.

 

[quietthinker]

I will stand before God in Judgment; like everyone.

The original plan of God was to have a people who would be His witnesses and be His Light to the nations. Ancient Israel failed in this mission, they were sent into exile, but only for a decreed time of punishment. Ezekiel 4:4-6 There are two groups: Israel and Judah. Judah have returned to a portion of the holy Land, but in unbelief and Israel remains scattered among the nations. Also many gentile people have been grafted into Israel through the New Covenant of Jesus.
Now the exile of Israel is over, but they; now every true righteous Christian person, Galatians 3:26-29, cannot go to their heritage, as all the holy Land is inhabited by atheists, Muslims and people with all kinds of ungodly beliefs and false religions. What is God to do?
The same as He did in Noah's day: wipe them out, only this time by fire from the sun. Isaiah 66:5-17, Isaiah 30:26-39, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17 The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, as prophesied in over 100 Bible passages: the means, the effects and the results.

This Day will be triggered by the commencement of an attack on Israel, from all directions by a confederation of nations and entities. Psalms 83:1-18 Iran will prepare their nuke missiles, Isaiah 22:6, but at the moment of firing, the Lord will destroy them by the powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from an explosion of the sun. Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35, Ezekiel 32:24-25, Deuteronomy 32:22
24 hours later the main mass of this Coronal Mass Ejection will arrive on earth. It will mainly affect the Middle East region killing all life except a remnant of the Jews in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3
The rest of the world will see it coming and will hide among the rocks and in caves, Isaiah 2:21, Luke 23:30, Revelation 6:16, so most will survive.
Luke 21:25-26 ...signs will appear in the sun....people will stand helpless, not knowing which way to turn....They will faint with terror as they see what is coming. Luke 21:28 When you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near.
The Return of Jesus, mentioned in verse 27 happens later, as we know from the sequence in Revelation. Jesus does not Return in fire.

You say, 'The original plan of God was to have a people who would be His witnesses and be His Light to the nations, so I would say what you propagate is hardly being a witness of or to God. What it is is projecting your interpretation of OT prophecies and labelling those interpretations as being a witness.

Let's take Paul as case in point when it comes to being a witness or any of the disciples for that matter. Did they take it upon themselves to be proponents of eschatological events? No. Eschatology, unless it highlighted Messiah was not their game or their passion.

Paul tells us all the promises of God are fulfilled in Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20. What do you think that might mean?
It is evident in HOW and to what all the apostles witness. It is not evident at all in what you deem as witness.
You have taken it upon yourself to be a self-styled eschatological guru independent of the primary witness of the scriptures to Jesus.
This might come as a shock to you but it is no shock to me.

 

[FredVB]

There is little if anything people in general have as information on what their descent really is. It is almost entirely unknown. Fortunately, regardless of any interpretations, God is not willing that any just perish, and makes the way of salvation not difficult, that any with repentance can come to God restored through Christ who makes that possible according to that essential faith. It is available to any and their descent will not matter, for that. There would be various parts included in salvation, but, also fortunately, no one coming to salvation would need to know or be aware of all of those, that it would happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

3/ Jesus Returns:
All the wicked peoples will be destroyed. The Christian peoples will live in peace and prosperity, under the benign Kingship of Jesus. People will still marry, procreate and die, albeit, living much longer and disease free lives. Isaiah 65:20

I disagree. Jesus said that people will not marry or die in the age to come, so you are contradicting what He taught.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Isaiah 65:20 relates to the new heavens and new earth and John was quite clear that there will be no more death there (Revelation 21:4).

 

[Keraz]

I disagree. Jesus said that people will not marry or die in the age to come, so you are contradicting what He taught.

Which age to come? He did not say.

Isaiah 65:20 relates to the new heavens and new earth and John was quite clear that there will be no more death there (Revelation 21:4).

You really show your bias and error with this comment!
Plainly; Isaiah 65:18-25 IS talking about the Millennium period. Verse 17 does refer to the final age, after the Millennium.

 

[Keraz]

There is little if anything people in general have as information on what their descent really is. It is almost entirely unknown. Fortunately, regardless of any interpretations, God is not willing that any just perish, and makes the way of salvation not difficult, that any with repentance can come to God restored through Christ who makes that possible according to that essential faith. It is available to any and their descent will not matter, for that. There would be various parts included in salvation, but, also fortunately, no one coming to salvation would need to know or be aware of all of those, that it would happen.

Of course; ethnicity has nothing to do with Salvation. Ephesians 2:11-18 makes that crystal clear.
But God does need to fulfil His Promise to the Patriarchs. The majority of Christians who will live in the holy Land, will have the heritage of an Israelite.
Genetic mathematics shows that every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes, but there are certain characteristics which identify the true descendants. Galatians 3:26-29

 

[Keraz]

Paul tells us all the promises of God are fulfilled in Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20. What do you think that might mean?

It means that the faithful Christians are [will be] the recipients of Gods Promises to Israel. Ephesians 1:11-14,

This might come as a shock to you but it is no shock to me.

The shock and awe to come will terrify all who have failed to comprehend Gods Plans for our future.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which age to come? He did not say.

LOL. Is there more than one? No. But, even if there was more than one He obviously would have been talking about the next age after this one.

You really show your bias and error with this comment!

No one here is more biased than you are, so this comment means absolutely nothing to me.

Plainly; Isaiah 65:18-25 IS talking about the Millennium period. Verse 17 does refer to the final age, after the Millennium.

Plainly, you prove your own bias with this nonsensical claim. Let's look at the text itself and see what verses 18-25 are referring to.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

How can you be any more biased than to think that Isaiah introduced the topic of the new heavens and new earth in verse 17 only to change the topic in the very next verse? LOL! You can't get any more biased than that.

Any unbiased person can easily understand that Isaiah would not introduce a new topic in one verse only to completely change the topic in the next. That is utterly ridiculous.

Compare Isaiah 65:17-25 to this:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Notice it says in Isaiah 65:18 "But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create:". That refers back to verse 17 which refers to God creating new heavens and a new earth. Only doctrinal bias can prevent someone from seeing that. Then he said "I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying". Compare that to Revelation 21:2-4 above and the similarities are impossible to miss. There will be no more weeping or crying in the new heavens and new earth and that will be the time when God will dwell with His people, so how can you think that Isaiah 65:18-19 is not related to the new heavens and new earth? You have to be completely biased to think that.

The thing that trips you up is Isaiah 65:20 because you wrongly think it implies that death will occur during the time it represents. How can there be death if there's no weeping or crying? What do you think, that people will die and no one will mourn their deaths at that point? Only a biased person would think something so ludicrous.

What you don't understand is that in verse 20 Isaiah is describing eternity in a figurative way that people back then could understand. They did not yet have a concept of eternity that we do now because of the New Testament. When it says "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days" that is because there will be no more death at that point. No more babies dying and no more old people dying because there will be no more death.

When it says "the child shall die an hundred years old" that is not meant to be taken literally. A hundred year old child? There's no such thing and never will be. That's clearly figurative text. It's a figurative saying to show that even after 100 years someone will be thought to be a child because no one will age in eternity. When it describes the sinner being a hundred years old and accursed that is a figurative way of saying that no matter how much time goes by in eternity (if there was time in eternity) it would still be the case that the sinner is accursed because there is no chance for sinners (unbelievers) to be redeemed at that point. They are accursed forever at that point.

You are taking the text too literally and it's causing you to resort to the ridiculous notion that Isaiah introduced the topic of the new heavens and new earth in verse 17 only to change the topic in the very next verse. Ridiculous! No, he did not.

Imagine someone trying to tell you that John changed the topic he introduced in Revelation 21:1 in the very next verse. What would you think of that? Be honest.

 

[quietthinker]

It means that the faithful Christians are [will be] the recipients of Gods Promises to Israel. Ephesians 1:11-14,

The shock and awe to come will terrify all who have failed to comprehend Gods Plans for our future.

So you believe the comprehension of the future determine ones destiny. Pity the cognitive impaired or those who lived in locations, times and circumstances which dictated their comprehension.

All self styled 'prophets' follow the same course. They believe their 'crystal ball' whatever it consists of, gives them insight into the future, blow by blow.

This approach inevitably makes Jesus redundant or he becomes a side dish of 'niceties'