The Doctrine of OSAS

[Barrd]

Love is the key.

 

[ATP]

YOU believe that. I was not convinced.
Those verses speak of men who became false teachers.

Where does 2 Pet 2:1 NIV say they became false teachers?? They always were false teachers Barrd. Wow.

2 Pet 2:1 NIV But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2 Pet 3:17 NIV - Falling from your secure position is about how weak or strong your faith is. Also, the lawless one is deceiving us here, but scripture clearly states that believers are no longer condemned as lawless. We are no longer of the antichrist spirit 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, 2 Thess 2:7-9 NIV, Heb 10:17 NIV, 2 Pet 2:7-8 NIV. Our faith can be tested, but the root will always be there James 1:3 NIV.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

James 5:19-20 NIV - The NIV version says "turns the sinner". It is simply saying that sin brings death.

Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

James 5:12 NIV - This passage is about judging others. If you say more than yes or no with profane swearing you will be judged Matt 7:1 NIV, Heb 12:23-24 NIV.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 6:4-6 NIV. - Are you referring to the repentance that leads to death in Heb 6:1 NIV?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:26 NIV - Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. It's also ironic being that Jesus tells us in the same chapter that He died for all sins, past present and future Heb 10:10-12 NIV.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:38-39 NIV - The author clearly is speaking of two different people here. "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed". Why? Because we belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

1 Tim 4:1-2 NIV - Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-1.htm- 1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

1 Tim 6:20-21 NIV - "Godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge" is describing apostates. Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-21.htm

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1 Tim 6:9-10 NIV - Verse 10 says "some people have wondered from the faith". Wondering from the faith is not departing from faith. They are polar opposite. In 1 Tim 6:10, the word "wondering" in Greek is "apoplanaó" which means to go astray or to be led astray. In 1 Tim 6:21 NIV and 2 Tim 2:18 NIV the word "departed" in Greek is "astocheó:" which means to miss the mark. Going astray and missing the mark are polar opposite. They also use the term "some people".

Love is the key.

 

[ATP]

Scriptures that NON-OSAS has taken out of context......

Ez 18:24 NIV - This has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with the penalty of sin because sin is death. James 1:13-15 NIV When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Ez 33:30-32 NIV - To partake does not mean they are saved.

Matt 13:21 NIV The Root / Matt 13:20-23 NIV Nonbelievers / Matt 13:1-23 NIV The Root / Rom 11:20-23 NIV Unbelief / Rom 11:11-24 NIV The Branch and Root / Hebrews 6:4-8 NIV

Matt 18:21-35 NIV - The Unmerciful Servant - In this parable the unforgiving servant is sent to the torturers by the king (God) for his unwillingness to forgive others. In the broader context of understanding the law of love, and the immediate context of forgiveness, I think this means that if we are unwilling to love well and forgive others, God will “torture” us by using the devil at his disposal. I interpret torture as causing us to live and fail by our own efforts, to face our evil, recognize our sin and appreciate God’s forgiveness of us. Then we will in turn forgive others because we will see that we are just as bad as them and capable of doing the same thing they did to us.

This forgiveness is to be understood of averting calamities and judgments, likely to fall for his iniquities, which is sometimes the sense of this phrase: see 1 Kings 8:34 and so his being delivered to the tormentors may mean, his being distressed with an accusing guilty conscience, an harassing, vexing devil, many misfortunes of life, and temporal calamities. Though after all, this is not strictly to be applied to any particular case or person, but the scope of the parable is to be attended to; which is to enforce mutual forgiveness among men, from having received full and free pardon at the hands of God; and that without the former, there is little reason to expect the latter, as appears from what follows.

Matt 19:17 NIV, This Christ said, in order to show, that it is impossible to enter into, or obtain eternal life by the works of the law, since no man can perfectly keep it; and to unhinge this man from off the legal foundation on which he was, that he might drop all his dependencies on doing good things, and come to him for righteousness and life. It all goes back to what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Are we trusting in Him or our own works to get us into heaven....

John 15:1-17 NIV - This passage is an allegory.

1 Cor 9:27 NIV - Paul is referring to being a castaway by men, not God. Notice it says, "after I have preached to others"..

1 Cor 10:12 NIV - This has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with temptation. Also read 1 Cor 10:13 NIV.

Col 1:21 NIV - This passage is about losing blessings in Christ, not salvation. Without blemish and accusation precedes verse 23. Being accused is not about losing salvation. The devil accuses us every day, but who can bring a charge against God's elect? Rom 8:33 ESV. Also, if you notice here it says we have already been reconciled through the blood of Christ shed on the cross. His blood is permanent Jim...Col 1:20-22 NIV and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

1 Tim 4:1-2 NIV - Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-1.htm- 1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons

1 Tim 6:9-10 NIV - Verse 10 says "some people have wondered from the faith". Wondering from the faith is not departing from faith. They are polar opposite. In 1 Tim 6:10, the word "wondering" in Greek is "apoplanaó" which means to go astray or to be led astray. In 1 Tim 6:21 NIV and 2 Tim 2:18 NIV the word "departed" in Greek is "astocheó:" which means to miss the mark. Going astray and missing the mark are polar opposite. They also use the term "some people".

1 Tim 6:20-21 NIV - "Godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge" is describing apostates. Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-21.htm

Heb 6:4-6 NIV. - Are you referring to the repentance that leads to death in Heb 6:1 NIV?

Heb 10:26 NIV - Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. It's also ironic being that Jesus tells us in the same chapter that He died for all sins, past present and future Heb 10:10-12 NIV.

Heb 10:38-39 NIV - The author clearly is speaking of two different people here. "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed". Why? Because we belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV.

James 5:12 NIV - This passage is about judging others. If you say more than yes or no with profane swearing you will be judged Matt 7:1 NIV, Heb 12:23-24 NIV.

James 5:19-20 NIV - The NIV version says "turns the sinner". It is simply saying that sin brings death.

2 Peter 1:5-10 NIV - This passage is about losing blessings in Christ, not salvation. Notice the word "promises" in 2 Peter 1:4 NIV. Now notice the word "promise" in the following...Acts 2:38-39 NIV, Gal 3:22 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Phil 1:6 NIV, Heb 4:1 ESV, 2 Peter 2:4-10 NIV, 1 John 2:24-25 NIV, Jude 1:24 NIV. Also notice in 2 Peter 1:11 NIV it does not say we will NOT be welcome into the eternal kingdom, rather it says if we do these things we will receive a rich welcome. It's only being applied to HOW we will be greeted, not IF we will be greeted.

2 Peter 2:1 NIV Script / 2 Peter 2:3 NIV / 2 Peter 2:17 NIV / 2 Peter 2:20-22 NIV / - These passages are about false teachers that knew Jesus but still walked away from salvation, similar to Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV. Even the title of this section is called "False Teachers and Their Destruction". (1) False prophets 2 Pet 2:1 NIV, (2) deny Tit 1:15-16 NIV, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4-7 NIV. (3) condemnation 2 Peter 2:3 NIV (4) springs without water 2 Peter 2:17 NIV

2 Peter 2:20 NIV Escaped / Just like any man that escapes sin. If he's an alcoholic then he will stop going to the liquor store, but not going to the liquor store doesn't cleanse you of your addiction. Only the free gift of salvation can do that and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit. The word "escaped" here in Greek is apopheugó, which means to flee from. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world,.... The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature: the phrase is Rabbinical; it is said (q),

2 Pet 3:17 NIV - Falling from your secure position is about how weak or strong your faith is. Also, the lawless one is deceiving us here, but scripture clearly states that believers are no longer condemned as lawless. We are no longer of the antichrist spirit 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, 2 Thess 2:7-9 NIV, Heb 10:17 NIV, 2 Pet 2:7-8 NIV. Our faith can be tested, but the root will always be there James 1:3 NIV.

 

[Jun2u]

The Barrd, on 10 Sept 2015 -3:30 PM, said:

And every sin I commit has the potential to send me to hell.

If that is the case, then all of your sins have not been forgiven. No “saved” person can be condemned for sins that are forgiven Ro. 8:1.

The idea that a person can sin, and because they are "saved" there will be no punishment...that is like spitting on Christ's cross.

Consider Romans Chapter 7

To God Be The Glory

 

[Barrd]

Where does 2 Pet 2:1 NIV say they became false teachers?? They always were false teachers Barrd. Wow.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

According to what I'm reading there "were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you"...
The "were" is past tense. Obviously, Peter is thinking of false prophets among the Jews. The "shall be" is future tense, and "among you" is pretty obvious.

And see what these false prophets shall do! They shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them!
Beware of them, or you will share in their "swift destruction"!

There is quite a bit more about these false teachers who shall bring in these damnable heresies.
Consider this verse:

2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Oh, my..."great swelling words of vanity"...do I know anyone who has that kind of arrogance? Hmmmm...
And "they allure through the lusts of the flesh"...it almost sounds as if they might be teaching folks that they can sin, and there will be no consequences, doesn't it?
And who is it that they are attempting to "allure" "through much wantoness"? Oh, look. "those that were clean escaped from them who live in error".

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Now, there is a verse OSASers need to ponder.

But where shall these false teachers arise from?

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

These "shall be" men who had escaped the pollutions of the world...that would be sin, ATP...through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ...there is no other way to escape the ravages of sin, ATP.
I don't see how it could be any plainer...these guys are Christians who have become again entangled in their sin, and, Lord help them, overcome. And, says Peter, their in deeper trouble now then they had been before.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

They had known the way of righteousness...only Christians know the way of righteousness, ATP. But, Peter says it would have been better for them if they had never known it, than to turn from the holy commandment given to them. These are Christians who have turned from their faith, ATP....in order to teach a bunch of lies.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I don't think I could do a better job of describing their plight than Peter does here. This verse doesn't need any commentary....you go, Peter!!

The bottom line is that you have grossly misunderstood these verses.

2 Pet 3:17 NIV - Falling from your secure position is about how weak or strong your faith is. Also, the lawless one is deceiving us here, but scripture clearly states that believers are no longer condemned as lawless. We are no longer of the antichrist spirit 2 Thess 2:3 NIV, 2 Thess 2:7-9 NIV, Heb 10:17 NIV, 2 Pet 2:7-8 NIV. Our faith can be tested, but the root will always be there James 1:3 NIV.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Hear what the Apostle says: be diligent! I don't know about you, but my own ambition is to be found in peace, without spot and blameless. To that end, I intend to take Peter's advice...I will be diligent.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

I like that Peter acknowledges Paul here. Between the two of them, I think Peter is my favorite. But then, he has much more reason to be meek...having once fallen and been restored himself. Three times he denied Jesus....and three times, Jesus allowed him to reaffirm his love.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another verse to ponder. Scripture twisting leads to one's own destruction.

2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Now, you want me to believe that this is only about the strength of our faith. In a sense, you are right...those with strong faith are not as likely to be "led away with the error of the wicked"...however, I think we both know the consequences of "the error of the wicked"....don't we?

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Amen

 

[ATP]

Amen. We are saved until the day of redemption secured by His blood. Eph 4:30, Heb 9:12. I am exhausted. I've been fighting with you people for a month. I need me a break.

 

[Barrd]

James 5:19-20 NIV - The NIV version says "turns the sinner". It is simply saying that sin brings death.

From my own beloved KJV:

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

the word translated "err" from Strong's:
G4105 (Strong)

πλανάω

planaō

plan-ah'-o

From G4106; to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.

In other words, ATP, they had left their faith.

Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

James 5:12 NIV - This passage is about judging others. If you say more than yes or no with profane swearing you will be judged Matt 7:1 NIV, Heb 12:23-24 NIV.

Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

It is possible to fall into condemnation.

By the way, Peter heard this from Jesus, Himself:

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

And Jesus wasn't talking about people judgine one another.

 

[Barrd]

Amen. We are saved until the day of redemption secured by His blood. Eph 4:30, Heb 9:12. I am exhausted. I've been fighting with you people for a month. I need me a break.

Ask yourself why you find it necessary to fight?
Do you wish to be found fighting even against Christ?

 

[Barrd]

Heb 6:4-6 NIV. - Are you referring to the repentance that leads to death in Heb 6:1 NIV?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The writer of Hebrews seems to think that those who were once enlightened, who have tasted of the heavenly gift, who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and had tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come....could fall away.
ATP, these are obviously Christians. And, the writer says that if they fall away, they cannot be renewed again unto repentance.
Something to think about...


Okay, let's look at the first verse:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Where, my deluded friend, do you see any "repentance that leads to death" here?

Heb 10:26 NIV - Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. It's also ironic being that Jesus tells us in the same chapter that He died for all sins, past present and future Heb 10:10-12 NIV.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I would have thought this verse was self-explanatory. But let's look at the next one:

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Not good, ATP!

 

[Jun2u]

Rockytopva on Sept 10, 2015 -11:55 PM, said:

“OSAS believers are also against a works based salvation…”

I guess you have not read Ephesians 2:8-9 and if you have, did not really understood the meaning. Just as you did not understand the gist of Luke
13:6-9.

If you are going to follow the work of others at least make sure they are faithful to the word of God. Remember, their best work is still tainted by sin.

If you have done word studies in the past you would have recognized that the word “tree” almost always mean “entity” in the Old and New Testaments, and likewise the term “fig tree” signifies National Israel.

In the Old Testament (I can't recall the references) God had scattered National Israel into all the world but one day bring them back to their land. (paraphrasing)

Sure enough, this prophecy bore fruit in 1948 when National Israel became an entity once again amongst the nations of the world.

But since then and up until today, National Israel bears no fruit that is they still do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

Except for a remnant, this condition of unbelief with National Israel will remain until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, that is until the last of the Gentile be saved.

The above is the interpretation.

Luke 13:6-9 is a parable and a parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Barrd]

Heb 10:38-39 NIV - The author clearly is speaking of two different people here. "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed". Why? Because we belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We are such a jaded generation! ATP, have you forgotten that the church was suffering tremendous persecution in those times?
There would have been a tremendous temptation to draw back...but at what a price!

Perhaps we ought to take notice...it may not be long before we also face such persecution. Many of the world's Christians face it every day...

 

[Barrd]

1 Tim 4:1-2 NIV - Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-1.htm- 1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron


Yes, ATP...apostasy is all over this. But what is "apostasy"?

APOSTASY
[uh-pos-tuh-see]


noun, plural apostasies. 1.
a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.



apostasy




noun
pl. apostasies
an abandoning of what one has believed in, as a faith, cause, or principles
Origin of apostasy
Middle English apostasie ; from Ecclesiastical Late Latin apostasia ; from Classical Greek apo-, away + stasis, a standing: see stasis


Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

So we see, then, that in order for there to be an "apostasy" there first needs to be faith to apostasize from.
Yes, ATP....these people were Christians who leave their faith.

1 Tim 6:20-21 NIV - "Godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge" is describing apostates. Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV. Apostasy is all over this. Apostates are not born again christians. They are polar opposite in their faith...http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-21.htm

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Not one of the verses you mentioned says anything about atheists, or "nonbelievers" having the knowledge of the truth. The very idea is a contradiction in terms...an "oxymoron" How do you think you can "know" something and not believe it?
For instance, can I say that I "know" that 2+2=4, but I don't "believe" that 2+2=4.

And again...you need to check out the definition of the term "apostate". You throw the word around without understanding what it means.




apostasy
[ə päs′tə sē]
Use apostasy in a sentence

noun


The definition of an apostasy is the act of leaving behind, or straying from, your religious or political beliefs or your principles.
An example of apostasy is when someone decides to become atheist.

1. YourDictionary definition and usage example. Copyright © 2015 by LoveToKnow Corp

Seriously, ATP, there are all kinds of dictionaries online. There is no excuse for you not to know the meaning of the term you use so often...

 

[ATP]

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

There are so many scriptures to start with, let's start here........

Heb 10:27 NIV but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - This entire passage literally describes the wrath of God, but scripture says believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Rev 3:10 NIV. Scripture also states that believers are no longer enemies of God, rather we are His children Nahum 1:2 NIV, Rom 5:10 NIV, Rom 8:31 NIV, Rom 11:28 NIV, Col 1:21-22 NIV

One at a time...

 

[ATP]

It is possible to fall into condemnation.

Then God lied to us. He says we are no longer condemned...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

 

[ATP]

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We are such a jaded generation! ATP, have you forgotten that the church was suffering tremendous persecution in those times?
There would have been a tremendous temptation to draw back...but at what a price!

Perhaps we ought to take notice...it may not be long before we also face such persecution. Many of the world's Christians face it every day...

Heb 10:38-39 NIV And, “But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.” 39But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Scripture clearly states that we do not belong to them. Notice the word belong. Who do we belong too? Christ!....John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

 

[ATP]

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

This chapter mentions two things that are a dead give away...condemnation and springs without water. These terms describe nonbelievers.

 

[ATP]

From my own beloved KJV:

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

All throughout the book of James describes temptation, trials, sin and death. Swim downstream Barrd, not upstream.

 

[ATP]

Okay, let's look at the first verse:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Where, my deluded friend, do you see any "repentance that leads to death" here?

You are a hypocrite telling me to act better with my posts while calling me deluded. I will pray for you.

Heb 6:1 NIV Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

 

[Barrd]

There are so many scriptures to start with, let's start here........

Heb 10:27 NIV but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - This entire passage literally describes the wrath of God, but scripture says believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Rev 3:10 NIV. Scripture also states that believers are no longer enemies of God, rather we are His children Nahum 1:2 NIV, Rom 5:10 NIV, Rom 8:31 NIV, Rom 11:28 NIV, Col 1:21-22 NIV

One at a time...

LOL....now he wants to take one at a time!
Yeah....let's just take one at a time. And how many verses did you add there for me to consider? Whew!

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel is not addressing the question of whether or not someone can fall from his or her faith. I doubt if this was really much of a problem at the time...remember, the Israelites were in exile...

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus is not addressing the question here, either. Although, as we discussed, He did deal with it in other scriptures.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
"he that believeth not" would include apostates. Again, look that term up, ATP...don't take my word for anything I tell you, but check it out. You will find that an "apostate" is someone who has renounced his or her faith. Now, you can argue that they were never saved to begin with all you like....the fact remains, they left their faith.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Amen. A very good reason to remain faithful.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Uh huh...now keep reading:

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Nah 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

You do know that the prophet is speaking here about Nineveh, right?

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Amen.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Amen.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I can't imagine why you included this verse. You do know this is talking about Israel, yes?

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

uh huh.
Once again, keep reading:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister
Please notice....there is an IF there...

 

[Barrd]

You are a hypocrite telling me to act better with my posts while calling me deluded. I will pray for you.

Heb 6:1 NIV Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Ahh, ATP....I meant no harm. I am concerned for you...you think it is not possible to fall. You think that people can sin...and still expect to go to heaven. This is a dangerous doctrine.
Of course, there will be people who will whole-heartedly embrace it...thinking that they can "have their cake and eat it too".
This foolish doctrine is the reason why so many divorced and remarried "Christians" think that they are still in "good standing" with God...even though God has said that He hates divorce.
This is why so many homosexuals think that they can live in this sinful and degrading lifestyle, knowing full well that God has called it an "abomination"...and still think that they are just fine and dandy...
Yes, I think you are deceived...but I do not mean that in a degrading way. It's not your fault...this doctrine is being taught in Baptist churches everywhere. Had I not been deeply rooted in my faith before I encountered this thing, I might have fallen for it myself. It is very plausible...but it is not true.
I remember reading somewhere that this heresy was introduced in the first half of the 1500's by a man named Darby...and it spread like wildfire.
But it is not something the Apostles would recognize....

Anyway, like everyone else, sometimes I let my alligator mouth overrun my canary behind....
I apologize.