THE CHURCH

[Berean]

I think we all know what your agenda is with JW’s, @Berean …..

My agenda is no different than yours @Aunty Jane, to preach the Truth as we see it.

you have an axe to grind and you must grind it on us

"Axe to grind" huh? What makes you think that? Because I love challenging you? Because I want you to think?

Let me ask, why are you here on this forum? Do you have an "axe to grind" with those here who profess to be Christians?

because you cannot accept that we are living proof of what the Bible clearly reveals, as @Kiew said…we receive our “food at the proper time”…..”the faithful slave” is appointed by Jesus and given instruction to “feed” his entire household, (Matt 24:45) but not all at once in a big “meal” that is served once and never served again…..

Oh, I can accept that the Lord has appointed a "servant" to give "meat in due season." We just don't agree on who that slave is. The special servant Jesus spoke of, who will serve the household of faith at the end times, is clearly one person chosen by the Lord for this role. This servant is not a group or an organization, as he’s mentioned alongside other servants.

The Greek term for “ruler” in Jesus’ promise about a faithful steward serving the household with “meat in due season” means to “set down” or place. It doesn’t suggest that the faithful steward would dominate or control his fellow servants. His role was simply to provide his brethren with the “meat in due season,” which the Lord would supply through the written Word upon His return.

What is this spiritual food served in “due season”? Throughout the Gospel Age, the Lord’s followers held onto their hopes for a heavenly reward. The truths about Christ’s return, the “harvest” at the “end of the age,” and the establishment of the kingdom were not essential for them at that time. However, when our Lord returned, these important truths became the “meat in due season.” During that period, it wasn’t the right time to announce the wonderful hope of the kingdom. But when Christ came back, it was the right time, and to include this in the witness of the faithful, this key truth was restored. The Lord’s devoted servants have been sharing it for 150 years.

Identifying who the Lord has chosen as His special servants is not about personal interpretation or arbitrary claims. It involves looking at the Bible to understand the message needed at different times and recognizing who delivered that message. Pastor Russell shared the message of Christ's presence, the harvest work, the coming kingdom, and the hope of restoration for the world. This led to his rejection by mainstream churches. He faced persecution for teaching that Jehovah's love and undeserved kindness were also for the unrighteous dead, offering them a chance for life when they are awakened during the Millennium. Unlike the churches that condemned them all to torment in fire and brimstone or as the Witnesses condemning them to second death.

This compassionate message of Jehovah's undeserved kindness, echoed by all His holy prophets throughout history, helped to highlight Pastor Russell as a key figure at the end of this age. His fellow servants also joyfully share this wonderful Gospel of love. As they work together to spread this message, the Lord blesses them—not through large followings or grand institutions, but by filling their hearts with joy as they dedicate themselves to sharing the good news of the kingdom.

Now you may wonder, since Pastor Russell passed away over a hundred years ago, shouldn’t we should seek another special leader, whether an individual or a group? This isn’t necessary and it’s not supported by scripture. Jesus, as the Head of the church, remains our main teacher, and we still rely on his teachings from long ago. When the original twelve apostles died, there was no need for new apostles. The writings of Paul, Peter, and others are just as important to us now as they were to the early believers.

We still hold the wonderful message of present truth that the “faithful and wise servant” discovered in the Scriptures. This message lives on in the hearts of God’s people and is what truly matters. Brother Russell is still regarded as a faithful servant by those who cherish the teachings he uncovered in his Bible study.

If we had nothing new to chew over, how easily we could get bogged down with the same old boring diet? Isn’t this what got the Israelites complaining about in the wilderness? All they had to eat for 40 years was the manna….same food every day, but it could be served in a variety of ways. They got to calling it “contemptible bread” (Num 21:4-5) Yet it was a perfect food nutritionally, just boring to eat day after day.

Why would you need something new to chew on? Is that what you look forward to at every convention, every Governing Body JW Broadcast? New light? Why does there have to be new light? Your leadership has been offering new light for over 100 years. Constantly changing views. You have some truths, some very basic truths, but you're still in darkness. You have a Governing Body that practices a form of "apostolic succession." You've made so many adjustments on the issue of the anointed. The door to heaven was closed in 1935, and at that juncture, they began gathering a great crowd. But apparently, 1935 has been done away with, and the 1914 generation are all dead, and so the governing body gets younger and younger and you don't question it. You just accept it and that my dear is sad.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Berean…..let’s just allow Jesus be the judge and continue to not put men on a pedestal, but rather to get on with the work Jesus assigned to all of his disciples….he had 12 apostles to carry on the work after he left, so why woul it be strange to have a body of men to oversee the worldwide work of Jehovah’s people in this “time of the end”? Moses too was given other qualified men to help him carry out his assignment.

Who has been carrying out Jesus’ instructions to preach the good news of the kingdom? (Matt 28:19-20: Matt 24:14)
When was the last time one of your brethren called at my door to offer me anything?

Let’s just see who are “doing the will of God” when the time comes….Jesus will tell us.

 

[Keiw]

Ok then genius John 1:1-3 and vs 14- explain them

Simple--In the Greek lexicons--At both John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4--2 beings are called God or god--the only 2 spots it occurs in the NT.= The true God in both spots called Ton Theon=God--Both the Word and satan called Theos=god,,, yet they translated God for the word and god for satan using the same exact word-Why? There is no Greek to English rule that says the same word is translated different when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon. The whole reason at both spots a different Greek word is used if for the difference of God and god. Scholars have write ups about this fact. The darkness refuses to believe fact because it exposes hundreds of religions claiming to be christian as false religions.
Satan did it to make all serving the darkness break Gods #1 commandment daily, those will not inherit Gods kingdom.

 

[ChristinaL]

Simple--In the Greek lexicons--At both John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4--2 beings are called God or god--the only 2 spots it occurs in the NT.= The true God in both spots called Ton Theon=God--Both the Word and satan called Theos=god,,, yet they translated God for the word and god for satan using the same exact word-Why? There is no Greek to English rule that says the same word is translated different when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon. The whole reason at both spots a different Greek word is used if for the difference of God and god. Scholars have write ups about this fact. The darkness refuses to believe fact because it exposes hundreds of religions claiming to be christian as false religions.
Satan did it to make all serving the darkness break Gods #1 commandment daily, those will not inherit Gods kingdom.

Havent you forgotten there is only one God? Others are called god/elohim in the sense of their work as judges and servants to the people but that is using the title in a different context. JWs love to interpret John 1 as saying the Word was "a" god but that leaves them open to the sin of polytheism. Satan does not mean god btw it means ADVERSARY. Lucifer is Lightbearer

John was saying only one thing- Jesus existed from the beginning. The Word/Jesus was with God (Father/Holy Spirit) and the Word/Jesus was/is GOD.

 

[Keiw]

Havent you forgotten there is only one God? Others are called god/elohim in the sense of their work as judges and servants to the people but that is using the title in a different context. JWs love to interpret John 1 as saying the Word was "a" god but that leaves them open to the sin of polytheism. Satan does not mean god btw it means ADVERSARY. Lucifer is Lightbearer

John was saying only one thing- Jesus existed from the beginning. The Word/Jesus was with God (Father/Holy Spirit) and the Word/Jesus was/is GOD.

god small g means-has godlike qualities, its not calling those God. 2Cor 4:4 calls satan-Theos=god---when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon-its fact. 2Cor 4:4 calls satan-the god of this system of things. godlike qualities, he has mislead 99% all through the bible and today.
Jesus teaches he has a God just like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Every Israelite knew he has a God as well-Psalm 45:7--now that would be more than one God if God has a God. And in plain English the second line at J1:1 would read-And God( Word) was with God= impossible.

 

[Berean]

@Berean…..let’s just allow Jesus be the judge and continue to not put men on a pedestal, but rather to get on with the work Jesus assigned to all of his disciples….he had 12 apostles to carry on the work after he left, so why woul it be strange to have a body of men to oversee the worldwide work of Jehovah’s people in this “time of the end”? Moses too was given other qualified men to help him carry out his assignment.

So you accuse me of putting a man on a pedestal and yet you have a group of men you've put on a pedestal, a group of men who act more like the Pharisees.

Who has been carrying out Jesus’ instructions to preach the good news of the kingdom? (Matt 28:19-20: Matt 24:14)

Oh, the Good News according to Jehovah's Witnesses: "Join us or die at Armageddon"

When was the last time one of your brethren called at my door to offer me anything?

I could ask you the same. I've never had Witnesses knock on my door and I live in the city.

Let’s just see who are “doing the will of God” when the time comes….Jesus will tell us.

And won't you be surprised. You won't be disappointed, but you'll be surprised.

 

[ChristinaL]

god small g means-has godlike qualities, its not calling those God. 2Cor 4:4 calls satan-Theos=god---when in the same paragraph with Ton Theon-its fact. 2Cor 4:4 calls satan-the god of this system of things. godlike qualities, he has mislead 99% all through the bible and today.
Jesus teaches he has a God just like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Every Israelite knew he has a God as well-Psalm 45:7--now that would be more than one God if God has a God. And in plain English the second line at J1:1 would read-And God( Word) was with God= impossible.

wrong again......

 

[Keiw]

So you accuse me of putting a man on a pedestal and yet you have a group of men you've put on a pedestal, a group of men who act more like the Pharisees.

Oh, the Good News according to Jehovah's Witnesses: "Join us or die at Armageddon"

I could ask you the same. I've never had Witnesses knock on my door and I live in the city.

And won't you be surprised. You won't be disappointed, but you'll be surprised.

Yet God sent me and Aunty Jane to you and you reject Gods truth, that is probably why he doesn't send one to your door. The work is being directed from heaven.

 

[Aunty Jane]

John was saying only one thing- Jesus existed from the beginning. The Word/Jesus was with God (Father/Holy Spirit) and the Word/Jesus was/is GOD.

You run into a problem right there…..because God had no “beginning”…..he is “eternal” which means “no beginning or end”……so what “beginning” is this? And how can God be “with” God except in a doctrine that puts three gods into one “head”….nowhere does the Bible say anything like that.

The Catholic Church defined God as having three distinct expressions or separate personalities, but all three are contained within a “godhead“….a word they invented. They believe in “God the Father“, “God the Son”, and “God the Holy Spirit”…..How many gods is that? And they dare to call anyone who denies that falsehood to be polytheistic and heretical? Seriously?

Havent you forgotten there is only one God? Others are called god/elohim in the sense of their work as judges and servants to the people but that is using the title in a different context.

It’s the same word….so who determines the meaning of “theos” when translating the Bible into English?
Referring to a good Concordance, we see how words are rendered in other verses and we can get a broader picture of where they have ‘pulled a swiftly’ on those who accept their word over what the entire Bible teaches about the nature of Yahweh and his Son.

Nowhere is this more obvious than Jesus’ words in John 10: 33-36.
Read in Greek you can see clearly that there are three meanings to “theos“ in that one passage.

The NASB translates that passage as….

“The Jews G2453 answered G611 Him, “For a good G2570 work G2041 we do not stone G3034 You, but for blasphemy; G988 and because G3754 You, being G1510 a man, G444 make G4160 Yourself G4572 out to be God.” G2316 (theos)

Jesus G2424 answered, “If G1487 he called G3004 them gods, G2316 (theos) to whom G3739 the word G3056 of God G2316 (HO THEOS) came G1096 (and the Scripture G1124 cannot G1410 G3756 be broken), G3089 do you say G3004 of Him, whom G3739 the Father G3962 sanctified G37 and sent G649 into the world, G2889 ‘You are blaspheming,’ G987 because G3754 I said, G3004 ‘I am G1510 the Son G5207 of God’? G2316” (HO THEOS)

Look closely….because there is something in the Greek that is ignored in the English translation…please look it up in the Greek Interlinear…..

One small word preceding the word “theos” is “ho” (“ho theos”) which means “THE GOD” and always refers to YAHWEH. Not once is Jesus referred to as “ho theos”…only as “theos”.

Strongs primary definition of “theos“ is…

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”.

It can also mean….

1. “spoken of the only and true God
   
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
2. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      
      1. of magistrates and judges”.

The three meanings are applied to……1) Yahweh himself, 2) his son, and 3) human judges in Israel…all were called “theos”, but only one is called “ho theos”. Those who represent God can also be called “theos” because their words represent Yahweh’s.

So you see that taking liberties with the original language to eliminate a very important distinction between those called “theos” and the one who alone is addressed as “HO THEOS” can make Scripture say what it never did.

If other “gods” or “divine ones” or “those given divine authority” can be called “theos“ (without the definite article) by God himself, (which was only used with reference to Yahweh) then it is safe to say that reading that passage in English gives a very false impression of what Jesus actually said.
Add to that the fact that Greek has no capital letters, so giving all mention of “theos” a capital “G” is misleading.

 

[Aunty Jane]

JWs love to interpret John 1 as saying the Word was "a" god but that leaves them open to the sin of polytheism.

John 1:1 reads in Greek like John 10 does…..
“In the beginning G746 was the Word, G3056 and the Word G3056 was with God, G2316 (HO THEOS) and the Word G3056 was God. G2316 (theos)”

I can see who is guilty of polytheism……the ones ignorantly pointing fingers at us.
We have one God with one personality and this God has a Son, who was his “firstborn”….a title he has carried since his creation, because he alone is the only direct creation of Yahweh himself…..(Rev 3:14)….all other creation came “through” the son. (Col 1:15-17)

Satan does not mean god btw it means ADVERSARY. Lucifer is Lightbearer

Really….2 Cor 4:3-4 says….
”And even G2532 if G1487 our gospel G2098 is veiled, G2572 it is veiled G2572 [fn]to those G3588 who are perishing, G622
in whose G3739 case G1722 the god G2316 (theos) of this G3778 world G165 has blinded G5186 the minds G3540 of the unbelieving G571 [fn]so G1519 that they might not see G826the light G5462 of the gospel G2098 of the glory G1391 of Christ, G5547 who G3739 is the image G1504 of God. G2316. (HO THEOS)

This clearly calls satan “theos”, (a divinely created son of God) but distinguishes the Christ as “the image of HO THEOS”.
Satan did not present himself as a “son of God” (which he was) but as his adversary…..he made himself into an enemy of his own Creator.
You notice that the little word “ho” is used to identify satan as “THE god of this world”? It is the same with identifying Yahweh as THE GOD of the Jews, who at that time was nameless. The only way to identify Yahweh as the singular God of Israel was to use the definite article….because the Jews has stopped using the divine name…..this scripture shows that the translators knew the difference, but ignored it.

John was saying only one thing- Jesus existed from the beginning. The Word/Jesus was with God (Father/Holy Spirit) and the Word/Jesus was/is GOD.

Yes he was….but not in the way you have been led to believe.
Correctly identifying the true God, and and his son, is a salvation issue as Jesus said in John 17:3….if we do not “know the only true God” AND “the one he sent”….we will not inherit everlasting life.

Who wants us to make a grave mistake about that?…….and why are “few” on “the road to life”? (Matt 7:13-14) What do the majority accept as truth?

Why, at the judgment are the “many” rejected”? (Matt 7:21-23) as those Jesus “NEVER KNEW”?
We need to reflect on what we have been taught, as the deceiver is good at his craft….and he has the majority of humankind in his clutches, ignorantly traveling down the wrong road, and ridiculing those who have chosen the difficult and unpopular path….

Its time to wake up.….before it’s too late.

 

[Berean]

Yet God sent me and Aunty Jane to you and you reject Gods truth, that is probably why he doesn't send one to your door. The work is being directed from heaven.

Or maybe God sent me to you and @Aunty Jane.

 

[Keiw]

Or maybe God sent me to you and @Aunty Jane.

I know 100% Aunty Jane listens to Jesus where as you do not, thus its you falsely reasoning.

 

[ChristinaL]

John 1:1 reads in Greek like John 10 does…..
“In the beginning G746 was the Word, G3056 and the Word G3056 was with God, G2316 (HO THEOS) and the Word G3056 was God. G2316 (theos)”

I can see who is guilty of polytheism……the ones ignorantly pointing fingers at us.
We have one God with one personality and this God has a Son, who was his “firstborn”….a title he has carried since his creation, because he alone is the only direct creation of Yahweh himself…..(Rev 3:14)….all other creation came “through” the son. (Col 1:15-17)

Really….2 Cor 4:3-4 says….
”And even G2532 if G1487 our gospel G2098 is veiled, G2572 it is veiled G2572 [fn]to those G3588 who are perishing, G622
in whose G3739 case G1722 the god G2316 (theos) of this G3778 world G165 has blinded G5186 the minds G3540 of the unbelieving G571 [fn]so G1519 that they might not see G826the light G5462 of the gospel G2098 of the glory G1391 of Christ, G5547 who G3739 is the image G1504 of God. G2316. (HO THEOS)

This clearly calls satan “theos”, (a divinely created son of God) but distinguishes the Christ as “the image of HO THEOS”.
Satan did not present himself as a “son of God” (which he was) but as his adversary…..he made himself into an enemy of his own Creator.
You notice that the little word “ho” is used to identify satan as “THE god of this world”? It is the same with identifying Yahweh as THE GOD of the Jews, who at that time was nameless. The only way to identify Yahweh as the singular God of Israel was to use the definite article….because the Jews has stopped using the divine name…..this scripture shows that the translators knew the difference, but ignored it.

Yes he was….but not in the way you have been led to believe.
Correctly identifying the true God, and and his son, is a salvation issue as Jesus said in John 17:3….if we do not “know the only true God” AND “the one he sent”….we will not inherit everlasting life.

Who wants us to make a grave mistake about that?…….and why are “few” on “the road to life”? (Matt 7:13-14) What do the majority accept as truth?

Why, at the judgment are the “many” rejected”? (Matt 7:21-23) as those Jesus “NEVER KNEW”?
We need to reflect on what we have been taught, as the deceiver is good at his craft….and he has the majority of humankind in his clutches, ignorantly traveling down the wrong road, and ridiculing those who have chosen the difficult and unpopular path….

Its time to wake up.….before it’s too late.

First of all in John 1 you need to learn how to read things in proper context. John 1 is referring to the one true God in the form of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The definite article is only needed for the Father to differentiate Father from Son. Being firstborn here also does not mean created- in its proper context here firstborn means only that He was THERE FIRST. Jesus is NOT created.
Jesus created all things. AND NO, NO NO CREATED BEING CAN EVER BE OUR CREATOR.

Correctly identifying JESUS as God and part of the Holy Trinity is an important salvation issue..

Yes most definitely it is time FOR YOU to wake up before it is too late

Gen 18
Is 7:14

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Zech 12:10

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 8
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I could go on and on here but the only other point I will make here is the the apostles and other martyrs all died teaching that Jesus is GOD

 

[Runningman]

The term church has been attributed with a wide range of meanings, many of which do not align with the teachings of the Scriptures. However, when viewed through the lens of the divine plan, its meaning becomes remarkably straightforward. Some people believe that a stunning building made of marble, stone, or brick, prominently displaying names like “Church of St. Peter,” “Church of the Holy Nazarene,” or “Holy Trinity Church,” represents what the Scriptures mean by ‘church’. This is a misconception. Others interpret the term church as referring to one of the numerous denominational groups present in the Christian community. It has become common to label these divisions as the “Roman Catholic Church,” “Protestant Episcopal Church,” “Methodist Episcopal Church,” “Baptist Church,” or “United Lutheran Church,” among others.

Consequently, many mistakenly conclude that the church is merely an earthly organization or a society of worshipers, or perhaps a collective of individuals focused on ethical, social, or moral reform. In the biblical context, the word church serves as a title rather than a name, referring to any group of devoted followers of the Master, or to all of them collectively. It translates from the Greek term ekklesia, which means ‘a called out’ or ‘chosen class’. The Bible uses this term to describe the dedicated followers of Jesus, identifying them as a group selected to work alongside him in fulfilling God's grand plan of salvation. Those referred to by this term are the individuals foretold in divine prophecy who would partner with the Messiah in his kingdom's mission. Jesus initiated the selection of this group. He told his disciples, “Ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.” (John 15:19) Although Jesus did not specifically use the word church or ecclesia here, the essence of his message remains the same—he was affirming their special status.

Yes, and by this definition we can conclude that Jesus was himself the first member of God's church and is now the Lord of the church.

Colossians 1
18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Romans 12
5so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let’s take your ‘proof texts’ one at a time….but please know that none of these texts say what you have been taught by your own teachers…..

Gen 18
Is 7:14

14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-7-14/
What does ”Immanuel” mean?……..“With us is God”.….And was God “with” Jesus?…..and wasn’t Jesus “with“ God….and was God “with” his people Israel all through their sad history? How does being “with” someone make you into that same person? How does that not fight with God-given logic?

Does being God’s representative make him “theos”? Yes! But not “ho theos”. Have you ignored the difference? It was presented to you in simple terms…..not difficult to understand at all. Yet you ignored all of what was presented in Scripture to double down on what you want to believe. You read with your eyes closed.

So God being “with” his people was accomplished first through those who represented him. Moses was the prophet who led Israel out of slavery in Egypt….and the “prophet like Moses” was Jesus Christ (Deut 18:15; John 1:45; Acts 3:22; Acts 7:37) Jesus led the lost sheep out of Judaism. (spiritual slavery) When Christ gave his life and returned to heaven, who represented him to the people? His apostles were trained by the greatest teacher who ever lived, and through them God was “with” Christ’s faithful disciples.
And through the teachings left to us from them, some are being led out of another form of spiritual slavery, to spiritual freedom…..the truth of God’s word breaks the shackles that bind people to Satan’s lies, cleverly presented as Christian truth.

Remember that “few” are going to be found on the road to life, (Matt 7:13-14) the majority are found on the wrong road because they listened to the wrong people, just like those who murdered the Christ felt that they were doing God a favor by silencing this imposter. (Matt 27:25) Only a “remnant” of the Jewish people listened to the truth and responded to it…..having to deal with ostracism and persecution from their own people, and often from close family. (Matt 10:34-39)

9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And wasn’t Jesus all of those things?
He was a “mighty god” but never was he called “Almighty God”….He is rightly called El gibôr…” a mighty one…..a man of strength…….but not El Shaddai which is a description of the only true and Almighty God Yahweh.

How is he an “everlasting father”…? Strongs lists “father” (āḇ) as..

1. father of an individual
2. of God as father of his people
3. head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
4. ancestor

So again, not getting the true sense in which the “son” can also be a “father” is to come to a wrong conclusion. The two are separate beings and always were.

Jesus could never be a “father” in the literal sense, or in the same way that Yahweh is a Father….. so it is a figurative description of his role as the “head or founder of a household, group family or clan”….a valid interpretation that fits the rest of what the Bible teaches.

And as the “Prince of Peace”….he is also the son of a King, who could often be a vice regent in ruling with his father.
So your definitions fail after some original language word study.
Indoctrination is hard to shift when one is convinced that the lie is the truth, when the truth is presented as a lie.

Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Again what does the original language teach us about this verse?
”from of old” simply means in the distant past…. and “from everlasting is “ʿôlām ” which means….

1. “long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
   
   1. ancient time, long time (of past)
   2. (of future)
      
      1. for ever, always
      2. continuous existence, perpetual
      3. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity”

So again, original language word studies tell us a different story to the one presented in Christendom. “Eternal” means “without beginning or end”….Jesus’existence is “everlasting” which means that after his creation, (Rev 3:14) he lives forevermore….forever into the everlasting future.
Have you never questioned what you were taught? And from what source your own beliefs originate?
Its an eye opener.

Zech 12:10

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Are you reading what this actually says? Is this not describing the pain that God himself will experience at the death of his “firstborn”….unless you think that God can be his own Father?

 

[Aunty Jane]

John 8
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And is this supposed to be a reiteration of Exodus 3:15? John 8:58 has no connection whatsoever to Exodus 3:15. Have you read this passage in the Jewish Tanakh?

Read it carefully and see what God’s name means in Hebrew…..this is not God telling Israel that he exists…because they already knew that, and had experienced his miracles….this is an extension of his name, adding a new dimension….he would now “be or become” whatever he needed to be, in order for his purpose in connection with Israel to be completed.
You will also notice the directive of Yahweh to have his name “mentioned in every generation”. But the verse in Hebrew contains the Tetragrammaton (יְהֹוָ֞ה) Yahweh. ”The LORD God” is NOT his name.

Because Israel failed to make God’s name known, the devil borrowed an opportunity to turn the true God into something he never was….if God’s name had still been in use, the identity of the true God would never have been confusing.
John 1:1 would have read….”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Yahweh, and the Word was a divine being”. Translated in harmony with what all Jews were taught about their Messiah.

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"		יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"		ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.		טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

I could go on and on here but the only other point I will make here is the the apostles and other martyrs all died teaching that Jesus is GOD

And due to deep study of the Bible, I would strongly disagree, for all the reasons I have stated.
You can believe them or not….I stand by the truth of my statements, as original language Scripture tells the true story. The readers here can make up their own minds about these things.

 

[Berean]

I know 100% Aunty Jane listens to Jesus where as you do not, thus its you falsely reasoning.

Oh, I didn't know she was anointed

 

[Keiw]

Oh, I didn't know she was anointed

She listens to the anointed, is taught by the anointed. She is not anointed neither am i.

 

[Berean]

First of all in John 1 you need to learn how to read things in proper context. John 1 is referring to the one true God in the form of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The definite article is only needed for the Father to differentiate Father from Son. Being firstborn here also does not mean created- in its proper context here firstborn means only that He was THERE FIRST. Jesus is NOT created.
Jesus created all things. AND NO, NO NO CREATED BEING CAN EVER BE OUR CREATOR.

Correctly identifying JESUS as God and part of the Holy Trinity is an important salvation issue..

Not sure how this thread was hijacked and turned into a discussion of the trinity, and as much as I would love to chime it, I would like to direct your attention to the following:

Policy - Topics That Can No-Longer Be Discussed​

At the moment, we only have issue with one particular topic, which is "The Trinity".​

This topic may not be initiated, discussed or debated at Christianity Board, whether it be for or against the Trinitarian view. Included in this is the side mantra of "Jesus is not God" Such posts/threads will be deleted immediately and disciplinary action will be taken in the form of warning points and/or bans depending on the outcome. Old threads will also be removed from public view as well as new ones.​

​

 

[Berean]

She listens to the anointed, is taught by the anointed. She is not anointed neither am i.

How do you know they are anointed? Because they claim it?