The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.

[shepherdsword]

I have no way of knowing the validity of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Mary Valtorta's Extraordinary Work, especially because when I clocked on your link to it, this message appeared:

HTTP Error 404.0 - Not Found​

The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.​

I think she meant this site: Authoritative Testimonials Collected by Valtorta Publishing (However, I fully support your statement below)

Personally, I believe that God has revealed in His word all we need to know about Judas Iscariot.

Ditto

 

[shepherdsword]

In support of what you're saying about Judas, and those like him, I'm sharing what Jesus dictated to Maria Valtorta on May 16th, 1947:

"And who is the apostle I loved most? It is Judas Iscariot. Do not stare in disbelief or give a start. It's true. I loved Judas Iscariot more than anyone else. And now I'll explain to you and you'll understand.

John was the beloved one. Everyone knows. And everyone knows the truth. He was good, pure, and faithful. It is obvious that he attracted the love of God and the love of the Man that is, the love of Jesus the God-Man.

But tell me: is it more wearisome to perform an action demanding continuous effort which we know beforehand will be futile or to perform another which, instead of effort, involves joy and repose in carrying it out? The former, isn't it? And who will have more merit? The one carrying out the former or the latter? In the former case, where the sole purpose is to do one's full duty with no hope of receiving compensation, or in the latter, where minute by minute we are amply repaid for what we are doing? Whoever carries out the former act will have more merit.

And, to continue, do you know what kind of love people have who, out of the heroism of love alone and duty towards God and their brothers and sisters, go on showing interest and concern in bringing their wicked brothers and sisters benefit and trying to make them good and glorify the Lord? They have perfect love. The love which carries out everything and forgives everything, overcoming all, moved by the perfect end of doing the work which is pleasing to God. Do they not succeed? Is it clear that they do not succeed? Is it clear that God knows they do not succeed? It doesn't matter. They act, all the same. It is the heroism of duty done to perfection. And it also shows perfection in sentiment. For if people did not love in God those who they know are delinquents, traitors, and incorrigible in their perverse sentiments, they could not love such delinquents. But they love them with the sublime love which swelled my Heart on the Cross when I was not praying for the just, but calling for the Father's forgiveness of those who were my killers.

This is the love I want in you for all those who hate you.... If only you knew how this love we give to those who are our unbending enemies—the unconvertible—works miracles! Directly, in terms of themselves, as was the love of Stephen for Saul, a love which obtained for the latter an encounter with Me on the road to Damascus, or indirectly.

Love is not lost. Not even an infinitesimal part of love, of this coin, of this yeast, of this balm which is love, remains with out fruit. Gathered in by the angels, noted by God, it rises into the treasury of Heaven and there serves—oh, mysterious operations by God!—to acquire, bring growth to, and treat souls slaves of Satan, immobile souls in their newly-fashioned justice, wounded and sick souls. The love given for the conversion of our crucifiers and remaining without fruit for them on account of their perverse will, goes on to fecundate other souls for grace who are unknown on earth, but will be known in Heaven.

Listen further, getting back to Judas. I said, "Whoever loves much will be forgiven much." It is true, and it is just. The more people love, the more they deserve forgiveness by those offended. But, in addition, those who forgive more show they love much. And those who forgive all at all times—at all times everything, until the hour of judgment comes—love, not much, but totally. That is the way I loved Judas Iscariot. Totally. I also loved the others that way, especially John. But it was a matter of justice to love them like that. They were good, even in their defects, and they love Me with all their strength. Were they small, imperfect? Were they so until the end, until the Holy Spirit renewed them? It doesn't matter. It was all their strength. But Judas! But Judas! To love Judas! To love Judas completely, when I was aware of every wrinkle in his tenebrous heart! To love him because we are told, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself"!

You see, soul of mine, many repeat this command, from pulpits, teaching chairs, altars, and confessionals ... and believe they are fully familiar with it, for they say, 'The second commandment is to love one's neighbor as oneself." But few-few spiritual teachers in relation to the many spiritually ignorant bring people to consider something essential to the commandment of love. And it is this. The statement 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself is made without specifying whether the neighbor is good, evil, submissive or unruly, loving or hateful. No, "You shall love your neighbor' is affirmed. Entirely. Good or evil. With joyful or painful love. But always your neighbor as a whole.

This love for the entirety of one's neighbor demands a spirit of highly perfected mercy, meekness, and humility. For it is hard—hard, indeed—to be able to love certain neighbors! One must be very, very well grounded in charity to be able to do so. But here, too, you do not lack a model. Here is your model: I am, Jesus! Imitate Me, and you will be perfect as I want you to be for your eternal joy.

The horrendous, shadowy figure of Judas that I have so amply displayed in the Work is not without a purpose. I certainly did not take pleasure in describing that tangle of hellish snakes! But I revealed it to you because, in doing so, I also revealed the way spiritual teachers and all Christians as well must act to wards the many Judases peopling the earth, whom none can fail to encounter during their mortal day.

To spiritual teachers and all others I say, 'Imitate Me in this perfect love, and you will possess a love like that of Jesus, your Teacher.” (The Notebooks: 1945-1950, pp. 394-397)

Then why was Judas and his entire lineage cursed in the Psalms?

 

[christsavedme]

In support of what you're saying about Judas, and those like him, I'm sharing what Jesus dictated to Maria Valtorta on May 16th, 1947:

"And who is the apostle I loved most? It is Judas Iscariot. Do not stare in disbelief or give a start. It's true. I loved Judas Iscariot more than anyone else. And now I'll explain to you and you'll understand.

John was the beloved one. Everyone knows. And everyone knows the truth. He was good, pure, and faithful. It is obvious that he attracted the love of God and the love of the Man that is, the love of Jesus the God-Man.

But tell me: is it more wearisome to perform an action demanding continuous effort which we know beforehand will be futile or to perform another which, instead of effort, involves joy and repose in carrying it out? The former, isn't it? And who will have more merit? The one carrying out the former or the latter? In the former case, where the sole purpose is to do one's full duty with no hope of receiving compensation, or in the latter, where minute by minute we are amply repaid for what we are doing? Whoever carries out the former act will have more merit.

And, to continue, do you know what kind of love people have who, out of the heroism of love alone and duty towards God and their brothers and sisters, go on showing interest and concern in bringing their wicked brothers and sisters benefit and trying to make them good and glorify the Lord? They have perfect love. The love which carries out everything and forgives everything, overcoming all, moved by the perfect end of doing the work which is pleasing to God. Do they not succeed? Is it clear that they do not succeed? Is it clear that God knows they do not succeed? It doesn't matter. They act, all the same. It is the heroism of duty done to perfection. And it also shows perfection in sentiment. For if people did not love in God those who they know are delinquents, traitors, and incorrigible in their perverse sentiments, they could not love such delinquents. But they love them with the sublime love which swelled my Heart on the Cross when I was not praying for the just, but calling for the Father's forgiveness of those who were my killers.

This is the love I want in you for all those who hate you.... If only you knew how this love we give to those who are our unbending enemies—the unconvertible—works miracles! Directly, in terms of themselves, as was the love of Stephen for Saul, a love which obtained for the latter an encounter with Me on the road to Damascus, or indirectly.

Love is not lost. Not even an infinitesimal part of love, of this coin, of this yeast, of this balm which is love, remains without fruit. Gathered in by the angels, noted by God, it rises into the treasury of Heaven and there serves—oh, mysterious operations by God!—to acquire, bring growth to, and treat souls slaves of Satan, immobile souls in their newly-fashioned justice, wounded and sick souls. The love given for the conversion of our crucifiers and remaining without fruit for them on account of their perverse will, goes on to fecundate other souls for grace who are unknown on earth, but will be known in Heaven.

Listen further, getting back to Judas. I said, "Whoever loves much will be forgiven much." It is true, and it is just. The more people love, the more they deserve forgiveness by those offended. But, in addition, those who forgive more show they love much. And those who forgive all at all times—at all times everything, until the hour of judgment comes—love, not much, but totally. That is the way I loved Judas Iscariot. Totally. I also loved the others that way, especially John. But it was a matter of justice to love them like that. They were good, even in their defects, and they love Me with all their strength. Were they small, imperfect? Were they so until the end, until the Holy Spirit renewed them? It doesn't matter. It was all their strength. But Judas! But Judas! To love Judas! To love Judas completely, when I was aware of every wrinkle in his tenebrous heart! To love him because we are told, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself"!

You see, soul of mine, many repeat this command, from pulpits, teaching chairs, altars, and confessionals ... and believe they are fully familiar with it, for they say, 'The second commandment is to love one's neighbor as oneself." But few-few spiritual teachers in relation to the many spiritually ignorant bring people to consider something essential to the commandment of love. And it is this. The statement 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself is made without specifying whether the neighbor is good, evil, submissive or unruly, loving or hateful. No, "You shall love your neighbor' is affirmed. Entirely. Good or evil. With joyful or painful love. But always your neighbor as a whole.

This love for the entirety of one's neighbor demands a spirit of highly perfected mercy, meekness, and humility. For it is hard—hard, indeed—to be able to love certain neighbors! One must be very, very well grounded in charity to be able to do so. But here, too, you do not lack a model. Here is your model: I am, Jesus! Imitate Me, and you will be perfect as I want you to be for your eternal joy.

The horrendous, shadowy figure of Judas that I have so amply displayed in the Work is not without a purpose. I certainly did not take pleasure in describing that tangle of hellish snakes! But I revealed it to you because, in doing so, I also revealed the way spiritual teachers and all Christians as well must act to wards the many Judases peopling the earth, whom none can fail to encounter during their mortal day.

To spiritual teachers and all others I say, 'Imitate Me in this perfect love, and you will possess a love like that of Jesus, your Teacher.” (The Notebooks: 1945-1950, pp. 394-397)

Wow, this passage from Maria Valtorta really hits deep. The idea that Jesus loved Judas Iscariot the most, despite knowing his betrayal, is such a powerful reminder of what true love looks like. It’s not just about loving those who are easy to love, like John, but pouring out that same unconditional love even on those who hurt us. That’s a tough call, but it’s exactly what Jesus modeled on the cross, like you pointed out with his prayer for forgiveness in Luke 23:34.

I’m struck by how this ties to the command to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31). You’re so right that the Bible doesn’t pick and choose who counts as a neighbor—it’s everyone, even the “Judases” in our lives. That kind of love, the kind that keeps going even when it seems pointless, feels like a reflection of God’s heart. It’s comforting to think that no love is wasted, that even when it doesn’t change someone like Judas, it still bears fruit in God’s kingdom.

This makes me think about how I handle tough relationships. It’s easy to give up when someone seems unchangeable, but Jesus didn’t. Thanks for sharing this—it’s a challenge to love bigger and trust God with the results. What drew you to this particular passage?

 

[shepherdsword]

The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.​

The challenge of Christianity IS to love Jesus. ^This OP meme sounds like it was inspired by some gnostic text

 

[St. SteVen]

The challenge of Christianity IS to love Jesus.

Why?
Is Jesus unlovable?

[

 

[David Lamb]

I think she meant this site: Authoritative Testimonials Collected by Valtorta Publishing (However, I fully support your statement below)

Ditto

Thanks! Yes, that works. I didn't recognise any of the names of the people providing testimonials. Most of them seem to be Roman Catholics, and I'm not, so perhaps that is the reason I don't recognise them. Thanks again.

 

[Magdala]

I have no way of knowing the validity of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Mary Valtorta's Extraordinary Work, especially because when I clocked on your link to it, this message appeared:

HTTP Error 404.0 - Not Found​

The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.​

Personally, I believe that God has revealed in His word all we need to know about Judas Iscariot.

Click this link where youll find the link to the PDF file A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta's Extraordinary Work: A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work.

 

[Magdala]

Wow, this passage from Maria Valtorta really hits deep. The idea that Jesus loved Judas Iscariot the most, despite knowing his betrayal, is such a powerful reminder of what true love looks like. It’s not just about loving those who are easy to love, like John, but pouring out that same unconditional love even on those who hurt us. That’s a tough call, but it’s exactly what Jesus modeled on the cross, like you pointed out with his prayer for forgiveness in Luke 23:34.

I’m struck by how this ties to the command to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31). You’re so right that the Bible doesn’t pick and choose who counts as a neighbor—it’s everyone, even the “Judases” in our lives. That kind of love, the kind that keeps going even when it seems pointless, feels like a reflection of God’s heart. It’s comforting to think that no love is wasted, that even when it doesn’t change someone like Judas, it still bears fruit in God’s kingdom.

This makes me think about how I handle tough relationships. It’s easy to give up when someone seems unchangeable, but Jesus didn’t. Thanks for sharing this—it’s a challenge to love bigger and trust God with the results. What drew you to this particular passage?

The passage you read from Maria Valtorta's writings is a dictation by Jesus to her about Judas. This thread made me think of this dictation, and I shared it for the reasons you eloquently gave. Maria Valtorta faithfully served Jesus for many years writing down all that He wanted her to, and to share His words with the world.

Jesus continues to speak to us, even through using people like Maria Valtorta as His "pen", out of love, in a continual effort to help us grow in love, despite our world continuing to persist in what is not love. Our God is not confined to the pages of any book, He is a living, loving, and interactive God, just as He's always been, always will be.

Thank you for your beautiful reply to what Jesus spoke. I'm glad that you were blessed by them.

 

[Magdala]

Then why was Judas and his entire lineage cursed in the Psalms?

What do you think is being said to make you think it goes against the part of Psalms that you're referring to?

 

[shepherdsword]

Why?
Is Jesus unlovable?

[

No...but loving him can carry a price far about what one will pay for loving Judas

 

[Magdala]

The challenge of Christianity IS to love Jesus. ^This OP meme sounds like it was inspired by some gnostic text

St. Steven isnt saying don't love Jesus at all. He's highlighting what Jesus Himself said about how it's easy to love those who love us, but it's harder to love those who don't love us, and that there's more merit in doing the latter. Judas, and people like him, are an example of those who are harder to love, and we are to love them by following the example of Jesus and how He loved Judas (refer back to post #147).

 

[shepherdsword]

St. Steven isnt saying don't love Jesus at all. He's highlighting what Jesus Himself said about how it's easy to love those who love us, but it's harder to love those who don't love us, and that there's more merit in doing the latter. Judas, and people like him, are an example of those who are harder to love, and we are to love them by following the example of Jesus and how He loved Judas (refer back to post #147).

I understand. However, I don't believe Jesus really spoke that about Jesus to Maria Valtorta. In any case, my point is that one can pay a higher price for loving Jesus than for loving Judas or even one's own enemies.

 

[amigo de christo]

Good post, thanks.
Although you and I disagree on judgment.
Something to consider.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Do we fulfill that command by incinerating them?
Or would God not accept that as a loving response from us?

/

we fullfill that love BY WARNING MEN TO REPENT and BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
not by LYING to them and giving out a false inclusive universal lie that Will damn them all .
We fullfill that love BY USING ALL WORDS OF JESUS and of the apostels of the truth of doctrine for CORRECTION
and etc .
NOT BY OMITTING some of HIS WORDS that get in the way of a unviersalists LIE .
IF any man preaches false hope and gives out idea that all will be fine in the end
no matter if they Believed not on JESUS ,
that man is a murderer who has given the people a false hope that will damn them all .
TRY LOVING FOLKS . REMIND ALL that has breath of the absolute dire need to BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
or perish they surely will .

 

[Magdala]

However, I don't believe Jesus really spoke that about Judas to Maria Valtorta.

How come?

In any case, my point is that one can pay a higher price for loving Jesus than for loving Judas or even one's own enemies.

What do you mean by "pay a higher price"? Is it more wearisome to perform an action demanding continuous effort which we know beforehand will be futile or to perform another which, instead of effort, involves joy and repose in carrying it out? The former, isn't it? And who will have more merit? The one carrying out the former or the latter? In the former case, where the sole purpose is to do one's full duty with no hope of receiving compensation, or in the latter, where minute by minute we are amply repaid for what we are doing? Whoever carries out the former act will have more merit.

 

[shepherdsword]

How come?

Because it has a gnostic flavor and isn't supported by any scripture

What do you mean by "pay a higher price"? Is it more wearisome to perform an action demanding continuous effort which we know beforehand will be futile or to perform another which, instead of effort, involves joy and repose in carrying it out? The former, isn't it? And who will have more merit? The one carrying out the former or the latter? In the former case, where the sole purpose is to do one's full duty with no hope of receiving compensation, or in the latter, where minute by minute we are amply repaid for what we are doing? Whoever carries out the former act will have more merit.

No one is persecuted or put to death for loving Judas. You can pay that price for loving Jesus.

 

[Magdala]

No one is persecuted or put to death for loving Judas. You can pay that price for loving Jesus.

To love Jesus means to obey Him, and follow His example, and one of the examples He led was loving the unlovable, like Judas, not just the lovable, even unto death.

 

[shepherdsword]

To love Jesus means to obey Him, and follow His example, even unto death, and one of the examples He led was loving the unlovable, like Judas. To love Jesus means to love our neighbor, which includes our enemies.

Agreed...and that makes it the REAL challenge...not loving Judas.

 

[amigo de christo]

Why?
Is Jesus unlovable?

[

not a false verison of him . IT SEEMS MANY LOVE THAT VERSION and so few
actually love THE WORDS OF HIM in that bible .
MANY sure seem to love another jesus , another gospel , they love a LIE .
And i know of them and who they are on this christain website .
A hint , they never gonna tell folks of the aboslute dire need to repent to beleive on HIM
rather they gonna try and plant doubts of universalism incluisivism .
IF you see any doing that , TELL THEM TO CEASE AND DISSIST asap .
cause they are heaping WRATH UPON WRATH UPON WRATH unto themselves ON THE DAY OF THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

To love Jesus means to obey Him, and follow His example, and one of the examples He led was loving the unlovable, like Judas, not just the lovable, even unto death.

I dont think i could have said it better myself my dear magdala .
SO THEN lets examine HOW JESUS spoke to his enemies , to EVEN HIS OWN .
I sure seen some dire warnings . I sure seen him rebuke peter very sharply too .
WHY do i see a love today that while it might talk about doing good to the poor
IT SURE dont seem to correct brethern in error and worse it even pumps out unbelief as love
as it gathers all religoins under the cliam we all serve the same GOD .
I BET A TRILLION DOLLARS GOD WOULD NEVER have done that , OR HIS CHRIST , OR THE APOSTELS .
I SURE Seen them CORRECT all error and warn against ALL FALSE leaders too .
BUT I GUESS this generation KNOWS BETTER THAN GOD THAN CHRIST THAN THE APOSTELS .
what a lie has been loved by this judge not correct not generation indeed . we got problems big time .
CHRISTENDOM HAS NOT ONLY BEEN INFILTRATED by decievers , ITS BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THEM .
MAY I SUGGEST BIBLE TIME once again for all to learn and to grow . cause these fleecers
sure aint gonna feed this people , UNLESS ITS DUNG AND DELUSOIN . cause that is all they feed this people . A LIE
that so many now seem to love . we do know where those who made and loved a lie END up .............LAKE OF FIRE .

 

[Magdala]

Because it has a gnostic flavor and isn't supported by any scripture

How does post #147 have a "gnostic flavor" and which part "isn't supported by Scripture"?

Agreed...and that makes it the REAL challenge...not loving Judas.

To love the lovable and unlovable means to love Jesus. But, is it more wearisome to perform an action demanding continuous effort which we know beforehand will be futile or to perform another which, instead of effort, involves joy and repose in carrying it out? The former, isn't it? And who will have more merit? The one carrying out the former or the latter? In the former case, where the sole purpose is to do one's full duty with no hope of receiving compensation, or in the latter, where minute by minute we are amply repaid for what we are doing? Whoever carries out the former act will have more merit. Is that not so?