The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance

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Ghada

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Repenting is not the same as believing the gospel of Jesus Christ, because repenting is commanded first. If repenting of sinning were the same as believing Jesus, then of course no man unrepented of sinning, is believing Jesus. An unrepented unbelieving.

However, repenting is the same as believing in something, just not necessarily the gospel of Jesus Christ. Men repent of things, because we believe that a good result will come, that we are looking for. We repent of how we eat, drink, act, work, live etc... with the faith that it produces a better life. But that is not believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The simple point is that all men ought to repent of sinning regardless. In Acts 17, all men everywhere are commanded to repent of sinning, which means all unbelievers. Believing followers of Jesus Christ are not commanded to repent, because they already have repented of dead works. They are not unrepented sinners still.

Men repent all the time. They do so to become Buddhists, Muslims, Jewish converts, etc.. Men repent for religious and professional reasons, as well as simple health and better lives.

Repenting of sinning and corrupt living is smart, intelligent, and standard procedure to avoid self-corruption and destruction of our own lives.

What is unique about Jesus' command to repent, is that now the common command of God for all men to repent, can be followed with believing His gospel for pure newborn birth of God like Jesus. No other religion and philosophy and mysticism of man requiring repentance of past living, can create a whole new pure and sinless creature of God like Jesus Himself.

And with receiving His Spirit and divine nature, we are given a whole new heart of faith in Jesus, to obey Him and be a doer of His righteousness, rather than a doer of unrighteousness as before.

Only those that repent of sinning first (like all unbelieving sinners are commanded to do), that then go on to follow Jesus, can not only become doers of good deeds, but also remain without wrinkle and spot of sinning as at the beginning of their repentance and faith, when perfectly newborn of God.

Only by repenting can we ever become a believer of His gospel, because without repenting we are still the same as all unrepented men everywhere: The unrepentant can no more become believers in Jesus' gospel nor be His disciples, than unrepentant men can become believers in Buddha and follow his ways.

Only those repenting and also believing Jesus the Lamb of God, can become new pure born sons of God like Jesus in the first place.

And so, no man is saved by God and newborn of God by repenting alone, nor by repenting to follow Buddha or Mohammed or Krishna, but only by repenting and also believing His gospel of the cross.

And of course, no man has even begun to believe anything new in his life, without first repenting to become what they seek after. That especially includes being pure born anew by God to walk in all holy manner as Jesus walked.

Unrepented sinners don't even come to God to believe and be justified by Him. They don't even come to the way of better health to believe in a new way of eating and drinking for it.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

The unrepented sinners of the world hate the light of God's reproof and judgment. They don't even want to believe Him nor it.

So with unrepented gluttons that hate to even look in the mirror.

For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 

CadyandZoe

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Repenting is not the same as believing the gospel of Jesus Christ,
Repenting is one aspect of believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you don't think this is true of faith, then your argument is against a false idea of faith, not the actual idea of faith.
 

Ghada

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If you believe that you are no longer sinning, then I guarantee that you have redefined your sins as not being sins after all. Good luck with that.
I stick to the Bible definition of sinning. It begins with lusting from the heart, and concludes with unrighteous works of the flesh.

It's ok to believe one's own gospel, because I do so with mine that I preach. I just don't conclude all other Christians have to be doing it also.

I don't think I've ever seen a Christian preaching their gospel of continued sinning, that did not also say all Christians must be obeying it also, by sinning too.

I neither believe nor obey your gospel. Dittoes you with mine. But unlike you, I'm not trying to proselytize you to my gospel. You obviously like and love and practice yours faithfully with however much sinning you choose to do, and so you're certainly welcome to it.

In the end, the Father will judge our works at death, whether as being His righteousness, or as being the devil's sinning.
 

CadyandZoe

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I stick to the Bible definition of sinning. It begins with lusting from the heart, and concludes with unrighteous works of the flesh.

It's ok to believe one's own gospel, because I do so with mine that I preach. I just don't conclude all other Christians have to be doing it also.

I don't think I've ever seen a Christian preaching their gospel of continued sinning, that did not also say all Christians must be obeying it also, by sinning too.

I neither believe nor obey your gospel. Dittoes you with mine. But unlike you, I'm not trying to proselytize you to my gospel. You obviously like and love and practice yours faithfully with however much sinning you choose to do, and so you're certainly welcome to it.

In the end, the Father will judge our works at death, whether as being His righteousness, or as being the devil's sinning.
Did you see what John said about those who say they have no sin?
 
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Ghada

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What you call a "missing link" is not missing at all. Believing in Jesus Christ involves repentance for our sins.
In your gospel, it 'involves' partial repentance down the road from time to time. In Jesus' gospel is commands repenting of all sinning first.



Acknowledging oneself as a sinner is the desire of the Father.
There is a father you are certainly always pleasing by always calling yourself a sinner. It's just not God the Father of the Bible.

Your Christ commands you to always call yourself a sinning, so that you must always sin in order not to be a liar. There is no time in this life, when you can ever not being sinning, otherwise you would not be pleasing your father by calling yourself a sinner.

You do see how dysfunctional in practice your gospel is, right?
 

Ghada

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Repenting is one aspect of believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you don't think this is true of faith, then your argument is against a false idea of faith, not the actual idea of faith.
It's against your gospel and unrepented faith, that teaches repentance as only an aspect, and also is only partial at best.

The gospel of Jesus Christ commands repenting of all sinning as the first step toward having faith in God.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
 

CadyandZoe

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In your gospel, it 'involves' partial repentance down the road from time to time. In Jesus' gospel is commands repenting of all sinning first.




There is a father you are certainly always pleasing by always calling yourself a sinner. It's just not God the Father of the Bible.

Your Christ commands you to always call yourself a sinning, so that you must always sin in order not to be a liar. There is no time in this life, when you can ever not being sinning, otherwise you would not be pleasing your father by calling yourself a sinner.

You do see how dysfunctional in practice your gospel is, right?
I see how you like to make stuff up about what other people say.
 

marks

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You do see how dysfunctional in practice your gospel is, right?
You do see how hypocritical your stance is, right? As you preach sinlessness and continue to sin? Don't bother to deny, you've put yourself on display. Now all that remains is to see if you will become honest about yourself, or if you will continue in dishonesty.

Much love!
 

Ghada

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When Jesus commands Repent ye, and believe the gospel, He is speaking of repent first in order to be able to believe His gospel.

Those who seek to believe without first repenting, are believing in a gospel of their own, where they then work on repenting according to their own will.

No one that has yet to repent of sinning in life, is even able to believe Jesus' gospel with pure hearted righteousness and holiness in all manner of life. They can't believe in it, much less do it, because they haven't yet repented of their continued sinning.

That's also why their gospel of believing first without repentance, also includes not beleiving from the heart in doing God's righteousness and walking as Jesus walked. It just makes since that unrepented sinners cannot and do not believe in the gospel of God's blamelessness of soul, spirit, and body today. They haven't repented yet.

It's all pretty much self-explanatory.
 

CadyandZoe

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When Jesus commands Repent ye, and believe the gospel, He is speaking of repent first in order to be able to believe His gospel.

Those who seek to believe without first repenting, are believing in a gospel of their own, where they then work on repenting according to their own will.

No one that has yet to repent of sinning in life, is even able to believe Jesus' gospel with pure hearted righteousness and holiness in all manner of life. They can't believe in it, much less do it, because they haven't yet repented of their continued sinning.

That's also why their gospel of believing first without repentance, also includes not beleiving from the heart in doing God's righteousness and walking as Jesus walked. It just makes since that unrepented sinners cannot and do not believe in the gospel of God's blamelessness of soul, spirit, and body today. They haven't repented yet.

It's all pretty much self-explanatory.
The phrase "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" is what we call "hendiadys" the expression of a single idea by two words connected with “and." In this case, "repent" and "believe" form a single idea. The apostle Paul helps his readers to understand why repentance and belief form a single idea in his epistle to the Romans.

In Romans 6, Paul explains that when a person is baptized "into" Christ, they are also baptized "into" his death. This means that by accepting Christ as their teacher, the individual has dedicated their life to following all of his teachings, which includes the idea that Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins. Paul emphasizes that the death of Christ on the cross and all that this implies is a fundamental aspect of our faith. He concludes his remarks by rhetorically asking whether someone baptized into this teaching would ever want to continue in sin.

In Paul's mind, repenting and believing are two sides of the same coin, because dying to sin follows from our wish to be free of sin, which is a promise guaranteed by the Father through the death of his son on the cross. Those who affirm the teachings of Christ, necessarily affirm the reason for his death on the cross. And those who affirm the reason for his death, and place their trust in Christ, have repented of sin. As he asks, "How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?" In other words, believing in Jesus Christ is dying to sin, and dying to sin is repentance.

It is important to note that the phrase "faith alone" is a slogan that came out of the Reformation. At that time the central issue involved the Catholic sacrament of Penance, whereby a priest would absolve the sins of those who demonstrated contrition through acts of penance, a clear violation of the Biblical teaching that justification came through the death of Jesus on a cross to those who place trust in his sacrifice.
 

Ghada

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Did you see what John said about those who say they have no sin?
Those sinners not fellowshipping with Jesus in the light? Yes. They have no more truth in them from God and His gospel at all.

If we're going to believe in a gospel that justifies our sinning with no condemnation for it, then what hope have we to repent of sinning and believe Jesus' gospel?

We must first repent of the great blindness of our sinful gospel we call light.

Saying we have no sin while sinning, is saying we have faith while doing no good.

Only those that repent of sinning and believe Jesus' gospel unto His righteousness, are in Him, who has no sin in Him.
 

Gottservant

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It's not necessary to keep repenting, if your witness is bold.

Confession is supposed to serve the soul, the soul is supposed to declare the Will of God.

You don't need to make it complicated.
 

CadyandZoe

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Those sinners not fellowshipping with Jesus in the light? Yes. They have no more truth in them from God and His gospel at all.
Don't miss the point. The apostle John taught us to admit ourselves as sinners and that anyone who lied about being a sinner was not walking in the light.
If we're going to believe in a gospel that justifies our sinning with no condemnation for it, then what hope have we to repent of sinning and believe Jesus' gospel?
God forgives those with an honest and contrite heart. He forgives those in whom there is no deceit. The honest person, according to John, is the one who admits and confesses himself to be a sinner.

We must first repent of the great blindness of our sinful gospel we call light.
Go ahead, repent.
 

Behold

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The Bible preaches to repent and believe the gospel. It does not say believe the gospel and then repent.

Actually its "Faith comes by Hearing".

This means that the Gospel has to be told, heard, and then believed.

This is why God sends out Pastors, Missionaries, Evangelists....as how can an unbeliever BELIEVE in Christ, unless someone TELLS THEM why, how, etc.

This is more about common sense understanding, then any sort of spiritual discernment", as you can't BELIEVE if you've never HEARD the MESSAGE.

"FAITH.......comes...........by = HEARING" the Gospel.
 
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Ghada

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You do see how hypocritical your stance is, right? As you preach sinlessness and continue to sin? Don't bother to deny, you've put yourself on display. Now all that remains is to see if you will become honest about yourself, or if you will continue in dishonesty.

Much love!
And so the default to displaying personal issues. I've never met a Christian sinner that failed to make it personal, when running out of arguments. I myself as a Christian saint don't personally care about how you live your life one way or the other. It's just dispute of doctrine for me. That includes freely referring to Christians as sinners, when they call themselves sinners first.

And so, your personal judgment about me is marred by your dishonest personal judgment, that all Christians are sinners like you.

Honestly, we're not.
 

marks

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And so, your personal judgment about me is marred by your dishonest personal judgment, that all Christians are sinners like you.
I'm simply asking you to honestly face yourself in what you claim, compared to what you do. They are not the same. You preach sinlessness, yet you tell lies about those who dispute with you. I've seen it several times now.

You can try to ignore that by your accusations against me, but in fact I've never said we cannot live without sin. And you may enjoy calling others sinners, personally, I am a child of God. So you are making things up about me to deflect from your lies. Lies to cover lies, yet you preach sinlessness.

Go figure! I guess you need to read more of your own posts so you can put those things off, as we are instructed in the Scriptures.

This is doctrine:

Ephesians 4:22-25 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Much love!
 
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Ghada

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The phrase "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" is what we call "hendiadys" the expression of a single idea by two words connected with “and." In this case, "repent" and "believe" form a single idea. The apostle Paul helps his readers to understand why repentance and belief form a single idea in his epistle to the Romans.
That is acceptable Bible teaching.

Biblically, repent and believe is as one and the same, as believe and obey. Some Christians preach the former while condemning the latter.

However, the point of Jesus' command, is not just to repent, because all religions, as well as change of life, preach the need to repent in order to practice their religion and new life.

The specific command of Jesus, that is different from all other religions and life-changing events, is to repent of all sinning and to believe His gospel only. That is the only way to the Father through the Son, by being wholly separated from our past life. So that we can become purely newborn of God, with all things now being of God, and with nothing remaining of old sinning and the devil.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Not all Christians believe this Bible new birth and way of life in Christ is possible in this life, and some say it is only after the grave.

They preach a kind of gospel reconciliation with God, where God sort of 'reconciles' Himself to His people still sinning unto the grave.

In Romans 6, Paul explains that when a person is baptized "into" Christ, they are also baptized "into" his death.
True. By repenting from all sinning and believing the gospel of Jesus Christ, then the Son thoroughly purges us of all sin. Through the Spirit He at once wholly circumcises, sanctifies, and baptizes them that do repent. We thus take up our own cross all at once to made in the likeness of Jesus' own crucified death to all sinning.

That is our part we must do by commandment of God in our own circumcision and baptism of Christ. No man can possibly believe Jesus unto His righteousness, who has not from the heart repented of his sinning.

Christ preached the same message to His people in the OT, that we must circumcise the foreskins of our hearts first, and not just be baptized with our flesh. (Jerem 4)



This means that by accepting Christ as their teacher, the individual has dedicated their life to following all of his teachings, which includes the idea that Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins.
True. Once any man repents of sinning and believe Jesus' paying the price for our whole old life of sinning, then He will fulfill the promise of His good news to forgive and cleanse us from our whole old life through His blood. And He will give us a whole new pure heart of His own faith to now believe and live righteously as He.

Being forgiven and saved from all our sinning, is the promise of repenting of sinning and believing Jesus' gospel.

The unrepentant have no so faith nor promise of His gospel. They certainly can have for themselves the religious conversion of their own faith and Christianity in this life only. But that certainly is not the pure religion of Jesus Christ without spot from the world.
Paul emphasizes that the death of Christ on the cross and all that this implies is a fundamental aspect of our faith. He concludes his remarks by rhetorically asking whether someone baptized into this teaching would ever want to continue in sin.
Rhetorically? I'm sure you meant the question only, and not the commandment of God to repent of sinning, and sin not.

Some Christians do in fact teach God's commandments as rhetorical or idealistic only, but certainly not doable daily. They idolize Jesus' walk on earth, but only as a highest ideal, not as a sure example to walk after ourselves.

In Paul's mind, repenting and believing are two sides of the same coin, because dying to sin follows from our wish to be free of sin, which is a promise guaranteed by the Father through the death of his son on the cross. Those who affirm the teachings of Christ, necessarily affirm the reason for his death on the cross. And those who affirm the reason for his death, and place their trust in Christ, have repented of sin. As he asks, "How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?" In other words, believing in Jesus Christ is dying to sin, and dying to sin is repentance.
Well said. It's always good to see the Bible taught plainly, without any 'clarifying insertions' about how Christians will still certainly keep sinning, more or less.
 

Ghada

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It is important to note that the phrase "faith alone" is a slogan that came out of the Reformation.
It comes from James 2 first, and neither saves nor justifies any man.

At that time the central issue involved the Catholic sacrament of Penance, whereby a priest would absolve the sins of those who demonstrated contrition through acts of penance, a clear violation of the Biblical teaching that justification came through the death of Jesus on a cross to those who place trust in his sacrifice.
I understand this truth of Luther's reformation, where saving faith is not accompanied with works of penance for past sinning. They would include many and/or labor indulgence payments payments to the church.

But that is not what Christians of James' day nor today are objecting to. They object to any need to now do God's will with their faith in order to be justified by God.

They're not preaching against necessary indulgences to be forgiven and saved by God. They are preaching against the necessity of repenting of sinning now once for all, in order to believe and be forgiven and saved by God.

Believe first unto salvation before any repentance of dead works, is the recipe for sinning Christian religion. It's not Jesus' commandment to repent and obey His gospel, and His pure religion of remaining unspotted by the world.
 

Ghada

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It's not necessary to keep repenting, if your witness is bold.

Not if our witness is holy in all manner of conversation. (1 Peter 1)

God's teaching of repenting is from sinning against Him.

Religions of men have plenty 'bold' witnesses. Especially among atheists.

'Boldness' without holiness of life, is just unrepented sinning in the face of God.

He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Confession is supposed to serve the soul, the soul is supposed to declare the Will of God.
If you mean that our soul and life declares the will of God by doing it, then I agree.

You don't need to make it complicated.
I try to write things as plain and clear as possible. But since you're not addressing any of it anyway, then it doesn't matter to you.
 
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