The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance

[Ghada]

Don't miss the point.

The point I make is simple; God says any sinner saying they have no sin, while sinning in darkness, has no more truth of His word in them to repent by.

You take it as a commandment of God to continue having sin and saying so. In order not to be a liar, you therefore have God commanding us to continue sinning, so we can honestly say we still have sin.

This is the old Christian sinners doctrine of let us do evil, that good may come. Let us ensure we are sinning, so that the good of saying we have sin, according to God's word, may indeed come.

Another version of it is the sinners' doctrine of being already forgiven for all sinning past, present, and future. Let us ensure we are sinning, so that the promised forgiveness of God will always be necessary. We cannot cease from sinning, lest His preforgiveness be made of none affect, and His prophecy of our continued sinning not be made a lie.

That one is along the lines of let us sin, that forgiving grace may abound.

You literally preach a verse condemning anyone while sinning, from also saying they have no sin, as though God is commanding His people to always say they have sin honestly by sinning.

 

[Ghada]

The apostle John taught us to admit ourselves as sinners and that anyone who lied about being a sinner was not walking in the light.

And so, the only ones walking in the light are those sinning and not lying about it.

The only ones walking in the light with Jesus Christ, are those having sin and saying so.

And yet, no sinner having sin can possibly be in Christ, in whom there is no sin. (1 John 3)

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Jesus has no sinning member with sin in His own body. If you say you have sin and are in Christ, you are simply preaching another Christ with sin in him: you and your sin.

 

[Ghada]

God forgives those with an honest and contrite heart. He forgives those in whom there is no deceit.

Your gospel is always honestly admitting you are sinning, which is fine for sinners still sinning.

Jesus Christ's gospel is of repenting of sinning and sin not. (John 8;11)(1 John 2:1)

 

[Ghada]

God forgives those with an honest and contrite heart. He forgives those in whom there is no deceit. The honest person, according to John, is the one who admits and confesses himself to be a sinner.

When sinning yes, of course.

Jesus does not come just so we can now say we are sinners without shame in the light.

Go ahead, repent.

Of not agreeing with your sinners version of the Bible? No thanks.

You will teach every verse from your sinner's mind, and I will preach every verse from my saint's heart.

God says walking in darkness is by sinning. You say walking in the light is by sinning and without lying about it.

The only ones walking with Jesus in the light, where there is no walking in darkness at all, are those repented of sinning and walking as He walks.

It's those who have repented and are now walking only after the Spirit in the light, and not walking at all after the flesh in darkness.

For a repented Christian saint, this is a big 'duh'. For unrepented Christian sinners this is an impossibility, and some of them say so. Instead, they make walking in the light some sort of shameless confession of sinning without repenting of the darkness.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It comes from James 2 first, and neither saves nor justifies any man.

I believe the slogan came from the Book of Romans since Luther was studying that book when he came to his conclusion that God was not impressed with his acts of penance.

But that is not what Christians of James' day nor today are objecting to. They object to any need to now do God's will with their faith in order to be justified by God.

Why do you hang around with them?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your gospel is always honestly admitting you are sinning, which is fine for sinners still sinning.

Jesus Christ's gospel is of repenting of sinning and sin not. (John 8;11)(1 John 2:1)

I am cognizant of those who promote the false doctrine that one can live a sinless life if one appropriates the power of the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, neither faith nor repentance is a guarantee of moral perfection or success. John isn't talking about sinless perfection, so he promises his readers that Jesus will forgive them if they fall into a moral failure during their walk. John assumes that we all sin from time to time. But he promises that those who walk in the light will not sin, meaning they will not willfully and habitually fall for temptation and lead a licentious lifestyle.

Paul deals with this in-depth in his Epistle to the Romans, chapters 6 and 7. At the end of chapter 6, he employs servitude as a metaphor to describe the choice before us. The central question is this, "Whom do you serve?"

Romans 6:15-19

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.​

Here, Paul begins another argument in defense of his gospel and those, like him, who live according to the gospel of grace. Behind his question is an underlying objection. He and his readers live under grace; his opponent lives under the law. The underlying objection is this. Those who live under the law have a strong incentive to live an ethical life. What would motivate those living under grace to live an ethical life?

What is the incentive for those living under grace to present their members to the service of righteousness? According to Paul, those who present their members in the service of sin will find nothing but death; but those who present their members in service to righteousness find sanctification.

Paul says, "I am speaking in human terms", which means he is using an everyday example. He has employed the "servant" metaphor in order to indicate the necessity of "presenting your members" to obedience. Obeying righteousness requires a conscience effort and an everyday choice to serve righteousness.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The point I make is simple; God says any sinner saying they have no sin, while sinning in darkness, has no more truth of His word in them to repent by.

You take it as a commandment of God to continue having sin and saying so. In order not to be a liar, you therefore have God commanding us to continue sinning, so we can honestly say we still have sin.

This is the old Christian sinners doctrine of let us do evil, that good may come. Let us ensure we are sinning, so that the good of saying we have sin, according to God's word, may indeed come.

Another version of it is the sinners' doctrine of being already forgiven for all sinning past, present, and future. Let us ensure we are sinning, so that the promised forgiveness of God will always be necessary. We cannot cease from sinning, lest His preforgiveness be made of none affect, and His prophecy of our continued sinning not be made a lie.

That one is along the lines of let us sin, that forgiving grace may abound.

You literally preach a verse condemning anyone while sinning, from also saying they have no sin, as though God is commanding His people to always say they have sin honestly by sinning.

You seem to have me confused with someone else.

 

[CadyandZoe]

And so, the only ones walking in the light are those sinning and not lying about it.

The only ones walking in the light with Jesus Christ, are those having sin and saying so.

And yet, no sinner having sin can possibly be in Christ, in whom there is no sin. (1 John 3)

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Jesus has no sinning member with sin in His own body. If you say you have sin and are in Christ, you are simply preaching another Christ with sin in him: you and your sin.

Did you consider John's contribution to chapters one and three? It doesn't appear that you did. Your conclusion that admitting sin means someone is not in Christ contradicts John's statement that refusing to admit sin means someone is not walking in the light.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your gospel is always honestly admitting you are sinning, which is fine for sinners still sinning.

Jesus Christ's gospel is of repenting of sinning and sin not. (John 8;11)(1 John 2:1)

You mischaracterized what I said. I didn't admit that I was sinning, "present tense continuous action."

Remember Romans chapter 6? The central question is "Whom do you obey?" Am I presenting my members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness? No. I am not sinning. Do I occasionally, in moments of weakness, fail in my love or concern for others? Yes.

If you believe that it is possible to "sin not" then you don't seem to understand the depth and profundity of sin.

 

[CadyandZoe]

When sinning yes, of course.

Jesus does not come just so we can now say we are sinners without shame in the light.


Of not agreeing with your sinners version of the Bible? No thanks.

You will teach every verse from your sinner's mind, and I will preach every verse from my saint's heart.

God says walking in darkness is by sinning. You say walking in the light is by sinning and without lying about it.

The only ones walking with Jesus in the light, where there is no walking in darkness at all, are those repented of sinning and walking as He walks.

It's those who have repented and are now walking only after the Spirit in the light, and not walking at all after the flesh in darkness.

For a repented Christian saint, this is a big 'duh'. For unrepented Christian sinners this is an impossibility, and some of them say so. Instead, they make walking in the light some sort of shameless confession of sinning without repenting of the darkness.

We don't "walk after the Spirit" as you say. Paul teaches us that the Spirit is leading us. And how does the Spirit lead us? By the renewing of our minds. (Romans 12) By being immersed in the word of God. (Ephesians 5, Titus 3)

Titus 3:4-7

But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

​

Contrary to what you teach, Paul says that we are NOT saved on the basis of deeds that we have done in righteousness. Rather, we are saved by the washing of regeneration and the renewing by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ghada]

This means that the Gospel has to be told, heard, and then believed.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is told, heard, repented, and then believed.

Your gospel that skips Repent ye, is not that of Jesus Christ.

And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

There is no believing Jesus' gospel, no converting to Christ, not remission of sins, no washing away of sins, nor receiving God's kingdom within, without first repenting of sinning in order to believe Jesus' gospel.

Believing alone unto salvation without first repenting is not Jesus Christ's gospel. It's just conversion to a Christian version of man's religion by one's own faith and will alone.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

No man receives the Son without first repenting of sinning against the Son and the Father,

as you can't BELIEVE if you've never HEARD the MESSAGE.

You can't believe after hearing the gospel, until first repenting by God's commandment.

Without repenting first, it's just another sinner's faith in being saved by his own will alone.

"FAITH.......comes...........by = HEARING" the Gospel.

Faith alone comes by hearing only. Faith is sown in the heart of every hearer, whether on the wayside or good ground.

Them that repent not, are wayside hearers only. Them that hear, repent, and believe Jesus are the good ground bearing fruit of righteousness.

Your gospel of faith alone by hearing only, saves no man that does not repent first. Faith without repenting of sinning, is dead faith alone on the wayside of life.

 

[Ghada]

You mischaracterized what I said. I didn't admit that I was sinning, "present tense continuous action."

This is Christian teaching of an amount or degree of sinning in order to be a child of the devil.

There are man such 'qualifying' doctrines of Christian sinners, that are used only to justify their own personal conduct. They then condemn others whose sinning is judged as more often or more devilish than their own.

It's the Christian religious version of moral relativism.

Sinning with the devil now is being a continuous child of the devil now. Stealing, lying, fornicating, being drunken, etc...now, is being a thief, liar, fornicator, drunkard, etc...now.

Remember Romans chapter 6? The central question is "Whom do you obey?" Am I presenting my members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness? No. I am not sinning.

So then, there are at least times when you are not sinful sinner and instead are a sinless saint.

And so, you certainly don't also preach the sinners' gospel of always being a sinner earth? Or do you?

Do I occasionally, in moments of weakness, fail in my love or concern for others? Yes.

This is the muddled response to Christian perfection on earth. Christian sinners say there is no such thing, and then introduce a bunch of mushy talk about how they 'fail in love or concern for others." Which has no meaning in real life.

Sinning against God and man is clearly defined in the Bible. If we refuse to do what we can do at the time, to help a brother or sister in need, then we are sinning against God and man. We are not at that time of God, but of the devil, because we are sinning against our brother or sister in service to the devil.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Having passing thoughts of 'unkindness' or anger from the devil, is only temptation to do evil. It is not a sin to be tempted, and Jesus was tempted with every such thought the devil has gave to man.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

If you believe that it is possible to "sin not" then you don't seem to understand the depth and profundity of sin.

You just don't believe all the words of Jesus and His apostles, because of your muddled ideas about sinning.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That's why you contradict yourself, by saying at times you are not sinning, and then say it is impossible to 'sin not'. If we are not sinning at any time, then we are sinning not.

It's your own unbelief in Jesus' and John's words, combined with the acceptance of pseudo-Christian humility, that leads you to teach against Jesus and John by teaching against 'sin not'.

You need to stop being an unbeliever in parts of the Bible, that fashionable Christianity rejects, and begin teaching only what the Bible says, and not against what the Bible says.

 

[Ghada]

I'm simply asking you to honestly face yourself in what you claim, compared to what you do. They are not the same. You preach sinlessness, yet you tell lies about those who dispute with you. I've seen it several times now.

No, you are simply asking me to agree with your doctrine and your personal judgment. Neither of which are proven by the Bible nor me.

You need to learn something: Just because you believe and say something, doesn't make it so. Provide the proof, and I'll look at it.

You can try to ignore that by your accusations against me, but in fact I've never said we cannot live without sin.

What you don't like is your own words repeated back to you, and get it as offended and slippery with them as with the Bible.

You asked straight and I told you straight, that I am not sinning 100% of the time. You say it is impossible, and reject my testimony as a lie.

Actually, it's more like 70 % of the time on the average, counting for sleep.

And you may enjoy calling others sinners, personally, I am a child of God.

I don't enjoy it, but only repeat their own words back to them. It's you that don't enjoy others saying more things plainly, without all your theological dressing on it.

And so, now you can clear the air. You are not a sinner? You are living without daily without sinning?

25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Put away you personal judgment of others based on your own life, and stop lying about their life when they testify differently than you.

 

[Behold]

The gospel of Jesus Christ is told, heard, repented, and then believed.

If you read what you wrote, you are saying that the Gospel has to be "repented".

I know you didnt mean that.......

So, lets look at the 'repentance" that God requires..

Lets say you repent of your sin, but you dont repent of your unbelief?

A.) you die and go to hell like a bullet


The verse says..>"while you are YET a sinner, Christ died for you".......not after you stopped.
The verse says that "God justifies THE UNGODLY">.......not those who are trying not to be..

See, We all come to God, as a sinner, BELIEVING, In Christ.

Notice "Believing".... ???????

That is a person who has REPENTED from UNBELIEF............as that is FAITH in Christ.... And that is the repentance that God accepts.

 

[marks]

No, you are simply asking me to agree with your doctrine and your personal judgment.

No, actually I'm doing what I said I'm doing. You continue in denial . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

You say it is impossible, and reject my testimony as a lie.

I've pointed said that I don't think ceasing from sin is impossible. This then is where you demonstrate you have not ceased from sin.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

You need to stop being an unbeliever in parts of the Bible, that fashionable Christianity rejects, and begin teaching only what the Bible says, and not against what the Bible says.

You need to read the Bible and my posts more carefully.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This may not seem like much of a distinction, but it is actually all important in some raging debates about Christian salvation and works.

The Bible preaches to repent and believe the gospel. It does not say believe the gospel and then repent.

If we believe we are saved by confessing the gospel is true, before repenting of dead works, then unto repentance becomes a gradual thing that is good for life, but not necessary for being justified by Christ. This is what the Christian gospel of justified with works teaches as the Christian life of progressive natural change, that never ends in whole repentance from all dead works.

The Bible says the longsuffering of God is to lead us unto repentance, not unto confession. It is repentance that leads us to confession of our sins with godly sorrow. Some Christians even teach to believe the gospel and skip repent entirely. It teaches believing we are saved first and always, and then gives lip-service unto repenting of dead works.

The problem with the gospel of believing the gospel unto repentance, is that God cannot beget us newborn and clean, without first repenting of dead works. God cannot wash clean in the blood of His Son, any one knowing they will willingly sin again. The blood of His dear Son washes us wholly clean of all past sinning. The blood of the Lamb of God is not like that of a bull or goat, that only covers continued sinning, as we gradually go on unto repentance.

The Bible gospel commands repentance first, that we may indeed believe the gospel to be forgiven by His Son, and believe from the heart that we can now live righteously as Him on earth.

If we haven't yet repented of sinning, then we can't possibly believe from the heart the good news of Jesus Christ, that with His power through faith, we can also live righteously as He did on earth.

The Bible teaches we must first repent from dead works, that we can believe the gospel of being born of God and doing good.

You arew right, repentance is unto confession unto salvation! After we are believers we no longer need repentance for we have already changed our mind, but growth in knowledge (Romans 12) and the confession to forgiveness as a believer.

 

[Ghada]

I believe the slogan came from the Book of Romans since Luther was studying that book when he came to his conclusion that God was not impressed with his acts of penance.

He understood Paul was preaching faith in Jesus without acts of repentance.

The first one to rebuke the opposing side of faith alone without works, is James 2. Luther would later understand the obvious sense that faith without acts of penance, is not faith alone without doing any good.

Such faith is dead, because it does no one any good, including not saving nor justifying us.

Why do you hang around with them?

I don't. I only read and oppose their doctrine on this site.

 

[Ghada]

I am cognizant of those who promote the false doctrine that one can live a sinless life if one appropriates the power of the Holy Spirit.

So, having the Holy Ghost and power of the worlds to come is knowing we can't live without sinning.

Sounds like those that say their Christ demands they sin, so they can honestly say they still have sin.