The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance

[CadyandZoe]

Didn't I say it matters because God says so? A couple of times I think.

God says a lot of things and everything that God says matters. I would like to clarify that my question pertains to your argument about Repentance and Confession. You have claimed that repentance should come first, followed by confession, and I am interested in understanding why you believe this to be the case. I would like to know if there is a specific reason why confession cannot come before repentance.

I think I have demonstrated from Romans 6 that repentance is included in confession and so they happen simultaneously.

So, laying on of hands can be before having faith toward God. Being resurrected from the dead can be before being baptized.

I would like to discuss the structure of Paul's argument. It seems that you are suggesting that Paul's intention was to provide the reader with a specific order of salvation, but I disagree. Although the reader can gather a general sequence from the list, Paul's main objective was to notify the reader that his argument would go beyond the fundamental teachings on the listed topics. He wanted to delve deeper into each subject and provide a more comprehensive explanation beyond the basics.

In Paul's view, "repentance from dead works" and "faith toward God" are essentially the same. This is because he believes that we are justified by faith alone, without the need for any works of the law. The "dead works" that Paul is referring to are religious rites and practices, rather than evil deeds. He is urging us to turn away from legalistic works, which do not bring us any closer to God.

But never in this life, right?

There is more than one way to be "free" of sin because sin is a complex concept. Sin might also be an offense against another human being, which must be dealt with now. Sin is an offense against God, which God will punish in the afterlife. And finally, sin is a reality of our existence, such that one is unable to guard himself totally against failure.

In this lifetime, a Jesus-follower has been set free of the penalty of sin. Being set free from the consequences of sin and the inevitablity of sin take place in the next age.

Then stop teaching it. Being born again comes before repentance and before confession. In my opinion, you have it backward.

Perhaps you don't understand what being born again means. We translate the Greek phrase as "born again" but the phrase can also mean "born from above." Either translation is plausible, which seems to explain why Nicodemus was confused. Can a man re-enter his mother's womb? Jesus tells Nic, "That which is born of spirit is spirit; that which is born of flesh is flesh." What does it mean to be "born of the spirit"? This refers to the miraculous and supernatural transformation of the inwardness of an individual. And out of this fountain of enlightenment and insight a person comes to saving faith; repents of his or her sins; confesses Jesus Christ as Lord; and agrees with God. This is why I say that being born from above precedes faith, repentance, and confession.

The central theme of John's gospel is the question of belief. Why do some believe while others do not? When you get a chance, read John's gospel with those two questions in mind.

This is just teaching being born again by faith alone, before repentance.

No, I maintain the being born again, or born from above precede faith. And I maintain that "faith alone" includes repentance.

Then stop preaching believe unto salvation first, before repenting.

I never have preached this.

Once you open the door to any timeline of faith and salvation before repentance, you've opened the whole box of never repenting to cease from sinning.

Again, faith includes repentance.

And so, you preach the Bible new birth only after the grave.

Putting words in the mouths of others is a fallacy.

 

[Ghada]

Unfortunately, even Christian men may struggle with lusting after women, but this is a regrettable aspect of human nature that will not exist in the future.

Really? You're turning to 'human nature' to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ? How about the divine nature by which we are thoroughly purged of all such things all at once? That is the only gospel of Jesus Christ found in the Bible.

Regrettable aspect? How about damned and condemned lust of the world? Why do some Christians turn from teaching the Bible, to teaching Christian humanism psychology?

That eradication of lust and sinning of the world is called being perfectly newborn with all things now being of God. It's called being born again by the Father, even as the babe Jesus from the womb.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

This can never apply to any angel, but only the Son and His born again brethren the sons of God. God the Father says this to our hearts and souls in this life by whole repentance of sinning and faith toward Him, or never.

As I said. I totally reject your teaching of being newborn and all of God, like Jesus inwardly and outwardly, only until after the grave.

The heart and soul of man must be wholly changed now in this life by Christ Jesus living within, not after this life. The only change to come after this life, is that of the body in the resurrection from the dead.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

This is speaking of the naturally mortal body only. Not of a continued corrupted heart and dead sinful soul. Corruption and incorruption is applied two ways in the Bible: One is spiritual, the other is physical. One is simple natural mortality of all flesh, and the other is spiritual corruption of the soul by lust.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The state of our soul at death, whether pure and clean, or lusting still, will be the state of our soul forever. That's why we must endure temptation and keep ourselves pure unto the end, and not be found lusting and sinning and ashamed in the end.

You insist on preaching the unclean Christian gospel of believe first to be saved (which is not Bible), and then some partial repentance whether much or little, then go ahead. It's what leads all such Christian believers to justify sinning unto death.

There is no first time perfect born again salvation by resurrection of the dead.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we wait until the grave, before we wholly repent of sinning, and be perfectly reconciled to God, walk fully in the light of His fellowship, we've waited one day too late.

 

[Ghada]

For instance, thinking, believing, or repenting are activities that we "do" but they are not considered "work".

I don't 'do' word games. Paul refers to it as useless diversions from the truth of the Bible. Doing, deeds, works, acts, etc...are the same. Any normal child knows what doing their homework is. It's work. So is doing our job.

It's enough just to teach what God says about works in His Bible. They are spiritually inward first and outward also. He judges our works, which includes the inward acts of lust committed, such as adultery.

People can define works however we want, but God still judges and either justifies or condemns our works inwardly first, and outwardly also.

The natural man that only judges by what he sees physically, defines works, deeds, acts, etc... as what we do outwardly only. He does not discern the things of the Spirit, and how man is first created in the image of God the Spirit.

Simply thinking about giving someone water does not qualify as work since it is not an action, but rather just a thought.

Now, this is true, and I agree here. It's why James 2 says faith without works is dead. Which includes loving in word and tongue only.

However, lusting and coveting in the heart is an act committed and judged by God. And Paul lists evil surmisings among the works of the flesh.

The first good works we do, is to cast down corrupting thoughts and temptations of the devil. Such a work could precede give an enemy a glass of water, in order to obey Christ to love our enemies when we can.

It's our spiritual warfare on behalf of Christ to love God with the heart, and not just with the body (2 Cor 10). Fighting the good fight takes spiritual works of our own working with the Spirit of Christ.

You may be confused about the meaning of the word "repentance". Repentance is not just a change of direction

I'm not confused about Bible teaching on such things, and I practice it daily.

The only confusion I used to have is what some Christians teach about it, but I think I've learned all the different versions of it by now.

, but rather it involves confessing that one is on the wrong path and feeling remorse for one's actions.

Called godly sorrow that leads to repentance unto salvation.

Remorse without repentance is just the sorrow of the world for getting caught.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

However, it is essential to note that actually doing the right thing constitutes "the works" of repentance. Repentance itself is contrition and confession.

Repentance itself is the work of both doing the good we were not doing, and not doing the evil we were doing.

Repentance in feeling only is not the work of repentance that God honors.

Repentance is a matter of the will and the mind, but the fruits of repentance are a matter of actions we take in keeping with repentance.

Which fruits begins in the heart and mind by having the peace of Christ without lusting and evil intent.

Your claim is without merit and a bit arrogant. You say such things often, as if disagreement with you is tantamount to natural thinking.

Whoa, touchy. If you feel judged by it, then that's your own conscience talking.

So far as 'arrogance' goes, I'm not offended by it. Jesus was considered the most arrogant Jew around by all the great long-studied and learned Rabbis and scribes, who were being corrected by Him at every turn. As the people noted, the difference between Jesus and the rest of the 'great' well known teachers of the day, was that He spake with authority. Unlike the others, He didn't hem and haw around in a bunch of intellectually 'challenging' and pseudo-inspired surmisings about the Bible.

For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Let's direct our attention to the merits of our statements as compared to the Biblical evidence and leave personal judgments at the door.

Let's do indeed. You do realize you just dodged the teaching, in order to attack the messenger? Right? Keep it professional. Bible correction of the teaching is all that matters to me.

Casting down tempting thoughts is not a work because a work involves action.

By your natural definition, yes. Not by Jesus', who calls it our first works to continue loving God with all the heart.

Thinking is something we do that doesn't involve action.

Never heard of 'thinking can be some of the hardest work we do'? It's a truism that the Bible first teaches.

Jesus refers to Love as "a work" because beneficent actions are the sum and substance of love. When Jesus or the Father speak about "love" they aren't talking about feelings of love and affection; they are talking about performing acts of kindness or charity.

Which begins with our work of loving God and His righteousness in the heart, and hating the temptations of iniquity spoken to our minds by the devil.

Don't misunderstand what Jesus said about lust and adultery. Jesus wasn't equating lust and adultery.

Sticking to your personal natural view of works says so, but not Jesus. He's not only teaching that the source of sinning is lust from the heart, but is in fact teaching such lusting is judged by Him as the act itself.

The Pharisees thought they were guiltless of adultery, because they only lusted for it from the heart. Jesus judges heart porn is the same act as video porn and the same as act as live porn and the act of committing it as well.

He was telling the Pharisees that if they lusted after a woman, they committed adultery in their hearts.

There you go. By lusting, we commit the act of adultery in the judgment of God, who judges works.

Here's how Bible analysis works: God judges our works. Jesus judges lusting as committing the act. Therefore, Lust of the heart is works judged by God.

Even human law makes a distinction between what we think about doing and what we actually do.

Seriously? You're going to value man's jurisprudence of law and judgement over God's in the Bible? I just teach the Bible for doctrine and judgment of Christ. Frankly, other than how it may affect my life in this world, I don't care what man's law and judgement is, when it's not God's.

Agreed, but please bear in mind that you speak of inward realities not outward realities.

Well, of course there's a difference of affect on things around us. Even Jesus didn't govern natural things by just 'thinking' it. Neither God nor the Bible is about magical thinking.

Faith, belief, contrition, and repentance are inward realities, and we are being saved in light of those inward realities.

Jesus calls those inward realities, the spiritual first works we do unto faith in Him.

If the devil rules the heart of a man, this is an inward reality; Likewise, if God rules the heart of a man, this is also an inward reality. Lust is an aspect of our inwardness. Desire is inward. Covetousness is inward.

True again. It's what is judged as doing righteousness or unrighteousness within first.

As a child of God, it is important to resist being controlled by negative emotions such as lust, desire, greed, and fear. These feelings may be present within, but not all are outwardly visible.

Exactly. Enduring temptation and resisting the devil to flee from us begins in the heart and spirit of a man.

Acknowledging one's own flaws is important,

Important sure for a better lifestyle here, but it's not the necessary repentance unto faith toward and God and resurrection unto life.

Your doctrine of being born again first by faith alone, before repenting, is why you talk of repenting only being 'important', and not absolute. It's the Christian teaching for better Christian living in this life only.

I may be attracted by a beautiful woman, but outwardly, as a Christian man, I manifest the fruits of the spirit, treating her with respect, and acts of kindness, generosity, patience, and charity.

Not if our attraction is mind pornography of lust. Then our act of adultery is already judged by Christ.

What you describe is not a Christian doctrine.

Not your's. Most certainly.

And since all you've down is offer your own personal version of things, along with erroneously reading of some verses (as I've offered to show in detail), and finally throwing in some good ol' natural human understanding about such things as judgement of works, then I'll keep what I have from the Bible, believe it, and do it.

 

[Ghada]

When it says, "Jacob I loved and Esau I hated" it refers to outward actions that God took.

Now this is a fascinating study of how God writes the Bible. You are correct of course, but perhaps not soon enough in their actions. God declared the elder shall serve the younger, after they had struggled in Rebecca's womb.

What's fascinating is how Paul writes new Scripture, as though he were quoting old Scripture, as he does elsewhere. This is the first time these words are written in the Bible. And so, a more accurate translation is:

As it is now written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God knew by their manner of struggle in the womb, what kind of men they would become, and here He tells Paul, that He was proven right in the end, when Esau became a profane person throwing away of his birthright. (Heb 12) And his descendants of Edom became grievous enemies to the children of Israel when they were most prone to assault.

That's why the Jews are still here, and the Edomites are not.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Really? You're turning to 'human nature' to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ? How about the divine nature by which we are thoroughly purged of all such things all at once? That is the only gospel of Jesus Christ found in the Bible.

You are incorrect. We are not "thoroughly purged" until the Seventh Trumpet. Refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

That eradication of lust and sinning of the world is called being perfectly newborn with all things now being of God. It's called being born again by the Father, even as the babe Jesus from the womb.

No. Being born from above is only an earnest of our inheritance, which comes later. Ephesians 1:12-14

As I said. I totally reject your teaching of being newborn and all of God, like Jesus inwardly and outwardly, only until after the grave.

Well, hopefully, you admit your mistake.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

At the last trump.

 

[CadyandZoe]

People can define works however we want, but God still judges and either justifies or condemns our works inwardly first, and outwardly also.

I admit, you can define your words however you want. But if you want to make an argument for your position, you need to alert the reader that your definitions of words are different than what is normally understood. In my judgment, your argument in this thread is invalid due to the fact that it relies on a concept that has multiple meanings, and your argument doesn't give the proper regard for the differences in meaning, as you do here:

Ghada:
"The first good works we do, is to cast down corrupting thoughts and temptations of the devil. Such a work could precede give an enemy a glass of water, in order to obey Christ to love our enemies when we can."

Casting down a corrupting thought is something we DO, but it isn't a "work" as the NT defines the term. Your confusion is possibly the reason why you are getting so much opposition in a Christian forum. In a Christian context, which is based on the New Testament, a "work" is an action not a thought.

Repentance itself is the work of both doing the good we were not doing, and not doing the evil we were doing.

No. Repentance is nothing more and nothing less than changing one's mind and attitude about a subject. Remember what John said, "do works in keeping with repentance." In other words, "take action in accord with your change of mind and attitude."

 

[Ghada]

Once again, you make no sense. How does one know about sin and repentance? They have to hear. Someone had to preach to them, and if they are convinced that they are on sin and therefore need to repent and believe, they'll repent. If they've .ever realized they are in sin and need to repent how can even consider doing so??? Makes no sense, nor have you up to this point.

The error in this kind of human reasoning by some Christians, comes directly from the doctrine of faith alone to be saved, which God in James 2 rejects.

Jesus' commandment of Repent ye, and believe the gospel, is saying that we must first repent of sinning, in order to believe Him unto salvation.

The faith alone by hearing, without works, and the believing alone without repenting, is not the believing unto salvation, that Jesus Christ is calling all men to.

Simply put: Bible faith of God is never without doing His word, and His believing is never without obeying Him.

According to Jesus' own commandment, the unrepentant are not just not obeying, but neither are they believing His gospel unto salvation.

Unrepented hearers only can believe they are saved, but they are not believing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, but rather they are believing a Christian gospel for unrepented hearers only.

Without repenting of sinning first, no man is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, they would repent first even as commanded. What some Christians are preaching, is that they will believe His gospel, but repent later. Jesus of course doesn't accept that nor receive them into His kingdom.

We must conform to His covenant commands, not Him conform to ours. Sinful man wants to be something just by believing it, but God says we are nothing without doing it.

 

[DJT_47]

The error in this kind of human reasoning by some Christians, comes directly from the doctrine of faith alone to be saved, which God in James 2 rejects.

Jesus' commandment of Repent ye, and believe the gospel, is saying that we must first repent of sinning, in order to believe Him unto salvation.

The faith alone by hearing, without works, and the believing alone without repenting, is not the believing unto salvation, that Jesus Christ is calling all men to.

Simply put: Bible faith of God is never without doing His word, and His believing is never without obeying Him.

According to Jesus' own commandment, the unrepentant are not just not obeying, but neither are they believing His gospel unto salvation.

Unrepented hearers only can believe they are saved, but they are not believing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, but rather they are believing a Christian gospel for unrepented hearers only.

Without repenting of sinning first, no man is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, they would repent first even as commanded. What some Christians are preaching, is that they will believe His gospel, but repent later. Jesus of course doesn't accept that nor receive them into His kingdom.

We must conform to His covenant commands, not Him conform to ours. Sinful man wants to be something just by believing it, but God says we are nothing without doing it.

You make no sense. Goodbye

 

[mailmandan]

The error in this kind of human reasoning by some Christians, comes directly from the doctrine of faith alone to be saved, which God in James 2 rejects.

Jesus' commandment of Repent ye, and believe the gospel, is saying that we must first repent of sinning, in order to believe Him unto salvation.

The faith alone by hearing, without works, and the believing alone without repenting, is not the believing unto salvation, that Jesus Christ is calling all men to.

Simply put: Bible faith of God is never without doing His word, and His believing is never without obeying Him.

According to Jesus' own commandment, the unrepentant are not just not obeying, but neither are they believing His gospel unto salvation.

Unrepented hearers only can believe they are saved, but they are not believing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, but rather they are believing a Christian gospel for unrepented hearers only.

Without repenting of sinning first, no man is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, they would repent first even as commanded. What some Christians are preaching, is that they will believe His gospel, but repent later. Jesus of course doesn't accept that nor receive them into His kingdom.

We must conform to His covenant commands, not Him conform to ours. Sinful man wants to be something just by believing it, but God says we are nothing without doing it.

Don't confuse faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24) Also, don't confuse repentance (change of mind) or the fruit of repentance (performing deeds consistent with repentance) with sinless perfection and salvation by works. (1 John 1:8-10; Galatians 1:6-9)

 

[Ghada]

You have claimed that repentance should come first, followed by confession,

Followed by faith toward God unto righteousness, and confession Jesus as Lord in deed and in truth.

I would like to know if there is a specific reason why confession cannot come before repentance.

Already quoted the verse how many times? Not all Christians believe all the words of the Bible. I believe them all.

I think I have demonstrated from Romans 6 that repentance is included in confession and so they happen simultaneously.

You're reading changes Rom 6, in order to fit your unbelief in Jesus' commandment to repent first.

I would like to discuss the structure of Paul's argument. It seems that you are suggesting that Paul's intention was to provide the reader with a specific order of salvation, but I disagree.

God does twice.

Although the reader can gather a general sequence from the list,

Your appearance of making repentance, faith, confession simultaneous, broke down in your first post, when you leap frogged into the Christians sinners' gospel of having faith first, before repenting, and before confession.

In Paul's view, "repentance from dead works" and "faith toward God" are essentially the same.

Not to you, since you preach faith toward God is before repentance, and before confession. While trying to appear like teaching faith and repentance at the same time, you contradict yourself.

This is because he believes that we are justified by faith alone, without the need for any works of the law.

Not the Paul of the Bible, who never preached anything about faith ever being alone. Your words are not Paul's in the Bible. And you purposely oppose James in the Bible.

The "dead works" that Paul is referring to are religious rites and practices, rather than evil deeds.

Once again. Change the obvious into something else. Neither Jesus nor Paul ever preached repenting of religiousness. They both preach repenting of lust and sinning, and to walk that way clean within the platter and blameless without.

I've already given the verses for this too, as well as a thorough explanation of how in our spiritual warfare. You weren't interested.

He is urging us to turn away from legalistic works, which do not bring us any closer to God.

Your gospel of repenting from legalistic works only, while sinning with works of the flesh, is not that of the Bible.

There is more than one way to be "free" of sin

And so you openly confess preaching another gospel, than that of the Bible. Jesus Christ is the one and only way to be freed from sinning.

ANd His one and only way to live is doing His righteousness and being holy as He is holy.

because sin is a complex concept.

Ah yes, the good ol' make the simple complex gambit.

Sin is so simple a child can do it, and all men have. The Bible teaches it simple: Lusting from the heart, and doing it with the flesh.

The simplicity that is in Christ Jesus, is to repent of sinning and believe Him unto salvation and doing His righteousness at all times.

The complexity of the faith alone gospel, is how to not be judged with the world, while still sinning with the world.

Sin is an offense against God, which God will punish in the afterlife.

And here is the first step in removing the righteous judgement against all sinning.

The Bible teaches that the sinning soul, separates himself from God and is dead. The judgement of God for sinning is still in this life, and began with Adam and Even in the garden. All have sinned without God. All are not now sinning without God.

And finally, sin is a reality of our existence, such that one is unable to guard himself totally against failure.

The good ol' born sinners gambit. Sinners from cradle to grave, and not a thing can be done about. That's your gospel, not the Bible.

I've offered a thread on how your doctrine teaches sinning as just another natural body function, like pooping. Disgusting, but unavoidable. That's why Christian teachers such as yourself, think ceasing from sinning is something unreal and from another world entirely. You treat the gospel of not sinning with the flesh anymore, the same as not pooping anymore. Just not possible in this life.

In this lifetime, a Jesus-follower has been set free of the penalty of sin.

As I said. Free from now being judged for sinning, not from sinning. The gospel of Jesus Christ of course is to be washed clean of all sinning and unrighteousness all at once, and to be saved from sinning afterward.

There is now no condemnation for anyone not sinning against God. There is no Spirit of God in the dead soul of anyone sinning against Him.

Being set free from the consequences of sin and the inevitablity of sin take place in the next age.

As I said before. You preach the Bible's newborn conversion of Jesus Christ from sinning unto doing the righteousness of God, as being possible only after the grave.

That is a day late and a dollar short.

Perhaps you don't understand what being born again means.

Already taught it to you from the Bible many times, as well as above. You're not interested in the Bible version.

One verse says it all so simple, and yet who believes it as it says? Not all Christians do.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God.

Your gospel preaches being in Christ with sin of the devil remaining. Jesus doesn't fellowship with the devil and his sin in any man.

Either translation is plausible, which seems to explain why Nicodemus was confused.

He was confused, because he was a natural minded leader of the Jews religion. It's still the same with some leaders of the Christians religion today.

By your sin nature theology, you preach being born again as a sinful babe as before, but hopefully with less sinning to come. I call it the sinners' Christian restart or reboot.

Jesus tells Nic, "That which is born of spirit is spirit; that which is born of flesh is flesh." What does it mean to be "born of the spirit"? This refers to the miraculous and supernatural transformation of the inwardness of an individual. And out of this fountain of enlightenment and insight a person comes to saving faith; repents of his or her sins; confesses Jesus Christ as Lord; and agrees with God.

Nice speech with very fine theological words. But since you preach a gospel of never ceasing to sin before, during, and after this miracle of faith alone, the doctrine is corrupted throughout.

Sin still lurks in all of it.

This is why I say that being born from above precedes faith, repentance, and confession.

So you say. I don't, because the Bible doesn't say so.

After-the-fact repentance is not the Bible, and never results in ceasing to sin. It makes for a good Christian religion, but not the pure religion of Jesus Christ.

And some of those Christians mock being without wrinkle and spot.

The central theme of John's gospel is the question of belief. Why do some believe while others do not?

Because some do the word and others do not.

Faith without works, and believing without obeying, is dead to Christ, and counted as unbelief of the world, while still spotted with the world.

When you get a chance, read John's gospel with those two questions in mind.

See above. The Bible is so simple, that any verse will do.

No, I maintain the being born again, or born from above precede faith.

I don't.

And I maintain that "faith alone" includes repentance.

This is now complexity made unreal. The Bible definition of faith alone is just believing something, without doing it.

By the Bible definition, it's impossible to repent by faith alone. I've shown the Bible teaching on how repenting is our first work to love God with all our heart and life.

At this point, unless something new comes up, we are only repeating ourselves to one another. That's a sure sign of an end.

 

[Ghada]

Teaching faith first before repenting, is a Christian doctrine that teaches God only commands His believers to repent.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

God commands all men as unbelievers to now repent everywhere. By obeying God to repent of sinning, any man can now come to God by Jesus Christ to be wholly forgiven, washed clean, and believe from the heart unto His righteousness.

Repent first is commanded to all men, and believing the gospel unto His righteousness is the faith of Jesus given only to them that repent.

Christ and His divine nature and power cannot be recieved into the unrepentant heart, that refuses to believe unto His righteousness.

That's why certain Christians even teach against is as being impossible to do in this life. Why? Because they repent now, yet say they believe anyway.

Any unrepented sinner is still an unbeliever commanded to repent by God.

 

[Ghada]

And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The commandment is for all unbelievers everywhere to repent of sinning. Only then is the Kiingdom of Christ at hand to save the soul.

The Christian gospel of entering the kingdom by faith alone first, and then repenting as a believer, is not plainly not the gospel of the Bible that Jesus preaches.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[Ghada]

You are incorrect. We are not "thoroughly purged" until the Seventh Trumpet. Refer to 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Your gospel of being sort of purged is a half baked cake unturned gospel for Christian sinners. You preach you will not be newborn with all things of God, until after the grave. Too late to repent then.

None of your Christians preaching your own faith alone, ever even acknowledge your gospel words oppose Bible words.

No. Being born from above is only an earnest of our inheritance, which comes later. Ephesians 1:12-14

Receiving the fullness of the Spirit by repenting from sinning and being newborn with all things of God, is the earnest of our inheritance.

The inheritance is being bodily resurrected from the grave unto life, as reward for continuing to do the pure will of God, after being purely newborn with Christ.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Those still sinning and doing wrong at death, are only rewarded with resurrection unto shame. Without respect of their religion and 'doctrinal' beliefs.

Well, hopefully, you admit your mistake.

Of ceasing to sin? No thanks. You sinning Christians have been trying to proselytize me back to my old sinning for a while now.

Forget it. I'm more firmly established in not being a double hearted Christian sinner, willfully continuing in Romans 7 unto death, than ever.

I reject your less sinning gospel thoroughly, and choose my gospel of being thoroughly purged of my sinning inwardly and outwardly.

 

[Ghada]

I admit, you can define your words however you want.

It's not a matter of how we define words used by God. That's the problem with some Christians. It's believing the truth of how God defines them in the Bible.

But if you want to make an argument for your position, you need to alert the reader that your definitions of words are different than what is normally understood.

I did. I alerted you to the difference between Bible definition of certain words, and your definition by your own faith alone.

In my judgment, your argument in this thread is invalid

As I said. Your definition of works is more important to you for your gospel of being saved and justified by your own faith alone, than God's definition of works to be saved by faith and justified by works in the Bible.

due to the fact that it relies on a concept that has multiple meanings, and your argument doesn't give the proper regard for the differences in meaning, as you do here:

I don't care about humanist multiple meanings about works, that differ from God's meaning about works.

Ghada:
"The first good works we do, is to cast down corrupting thoughts and temptations of the devil. Such a work could precede give an enemy a glass of water, in order to obey Christ to love our enemies when we can."

Casting down a corrupting thought is something we DO, but it isn't a "work"

Jesus says it is the first works we do by His faith in the heart.

And once again, I don't engage in useless efforts to parse words, like doing isn't a work being done.

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words...

The only reason you engage in such stuff, is to preach your own gospel of separating your saving faith from your works, so as to be justified by your own faith alone without works.

as the NT defines the term.

The NT defines works as acts done both spiritually first and bodily. You deny this judgment and teaching of Jesus.

You are now willfully blind to it, in order to continue preaching the natural man's view, that works of man are outward only.

Your confusion is possibly the reason why you are getting so much opposition in a Christian forum.

From sinful Christians preaching their sinners' gospel? That's only because there are more of you posting, than the few that reject it.

You are now judging by the many, rather than the few? You really think there is safety in numbers by consensus?

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

In a Christian context,

The context only of those Christians preaching their gospel of salvation and justification alone without works.

That's not my Christian context.

which is based on the New Testament, a "work" is an action not a thought.

Jesus preaches the NT, which is the act of adultery, is judged by Him as being committed by lusting for it.

You reject His righteous judgment.

No. Repentance is nothing more and nothing less than changing one's mind and attitude about a subject.

And so, here we are again. The dcotrine of only repenting of loving to sin to not liking it so much. You preach and believe that your sinning is no more condemned, only because you now don't love it so much when you do it.

Tell that to the sinner you say is condemned, because he enjoying it more than you.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Remember what John said, "do works in keeping with repentance." In other words, "take action in accord with your change of mind and attitude."

Which first begins in the heart.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Your gospel of being sort of purged is a half baked cake unturned gospel for Christian sinners. You preach you will not be newborn with all things of God, until after the grave. Too late to repent then.

None of your Christians preaching your own faith alone, ever even acknowledge your gospel words oppose Bible words.



Receiving the fullness of the Spirit by repenting from sinning and being newborn with all things of God, is the earnest of our inheritance.

The inheritance is being bodily resurrected from the grave unto life, as reward for continuing to do the pure will of God, after being purely newborn with Christ.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Those still sinning and doing wrong at death, are only rewarded with resurrection unto shame. Without respect of their religion and 'doctrinal' beliefs.


Of ceasing to sin? No thanks. You sinning Christians have been trying to proselytize me back to my old sinning for a while now.

Forget it. I'm more firmly established in not being a double hearted Christian sinner, willfully continuing in Romans 7 unto death, than ever.

I reject your less sinning gospel thoroughly, and choose my gospel of being thoroughly purged of my sinning inwardly and outwardly.

If you believe that you are no longer sinning, then I guarantee that you have redefined your sins as not being sins after all. Good luck with that.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

To the OP title;
Paul stated it thus.......
Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

A verbal affirmation of what the Spirit reveals into the heart that Jesus, as God, has made a way of reconciliation for man, from a lost sinner to a righteous child of God !

Matthew 15:8-9
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Confession by one's mouth does NOT make one a believer. Many ppl confess they believe Jesus is the Son of God. They confess in vain, however, if their heart is not changed into believing that he is God and by his D, B, & R that we too can become a new person in him. Born again from above by the forgiveness of our sinful fallen state, regenerated into new creations, changed, cleansed and made fit for his kingdom by Christ's shed blood.

Not in the manner of the world desirous of vain glory or to be men pleasers or to be seen of men as righteous!
Ephesians 6
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

The word of God must be rightly divided and read or studied in context
for correct understanding.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

There are too many who desire to tell God his ways, his plan of salvation and what his judgements will be !
The simplicity of the word is so simple that a child can find his way to God!

 

[mailmandan]

To the OP title;
Paul stated it thus.......
Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

A verbal affirmation of what the Spirit reveals into the heart that Jesus, as God, has made a way of reconciliation for man, from a lost sinner to a righteous child of God !

Matthew 15:8-9
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Confession by one's mouth does NOT make one a believer. Many ppl confess they believe Jesus is the Son of God. They confess in vain, however, if their heart is not changed into believing that he is God and by his D, B, & R that we too can become a new person in him. Born again from above by the forgiveness of our sinful fallen state, regenerated into new creations, changed, cleansed and made fit for his kingdom by Christ's shed blood.

Not in the manner of the world desirous of vain glory or to be men pleasers or to be seen of men as righteous!
Ephesians 6
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

The word of God must be rightly divided and read or studied in context
for correct understanding.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep, personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

Simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

 

[Ghada]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Once again, we see two things about Jesus' gospel, that the faith alone gospel denies.

Faith and even confession alone, does not enter into His kingdom. As Paul said, by disobedience of unbelief some do not enter into His rest and house.

The missing link therefore, is of course the first step Jesus commands toward having faith in God and obeying Him: Repentance of sinning.

No man is entering into His kingdom, without doing the will of the Father. No man is doing the will of the father, while still sinning with the devil. No man is doing the will of the Father and entering into His holy house, without first repenting of sinning with the devil.

The welcoming open arms of God at the opened door of His kingdom, is only for them that repent first. The stiff arm of God remains for all the unrepented.

Believing we can just waltz on into God's holy house by the power and will of our own faith alone, and repent at our leisure later, is the Christian faith alone doctrine, that just does not take God seriously. They believe and think they've entered in, and so they really must have.

It's not a too uncommon attitude among Christians teaching the Bible, to not take god seriously, because they don't take His words seriously. They don't believe He really means exactly what He says, word for word. I believe it comes from the notion that since God is a Spirit, then the words He uses aren't necessarily literal and practical in this life. They are treated more like puffs of clouds in air, to be read like Indian smoke signals. Not exactly a science, but just a sort of idealistic 'gage' to go by, according to our own personal understanding and will.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Once again, we see two things about Jesus' gospel, that the faith alone gospel denies.

Faith and even confession alone, does not enter into His kingdom. As Paul said, by disobedience of unbelief some do not enter into His rest and house.

The missing link therefore, is of course the first step Jesus commands toward having faith in God and obeying Him: Repentance of sinning.

What you call a "missing link" is not missing at all. Believing in Jesus Christ involves repentance for our sins.

No man is entering into His kingdom, without doing the will of the Father.

Acknowledging oneself as a sinner is the desire of the Father.