The answer of hell and its origins

[The Learner]

GEHENNA (Hebr.

; Greek, Γέεννα):
By: Kaufmann Kohler, Ludwig Blau

Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b). It is situated deep down in the earth, and is immeasurably large. "The earth is one-sixtieth of the garden, the garden one-sixtieth of Eden [paradise], Eden one-sixtieth of Gehenna; hence the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna. Some say that Gehenna can not be measured" (Pes. 94a). It is divided into seven compartments (Soṭah 10b); a similar view was held by the Babylonians (Jeremias, "Hölle und Paradies bei den Babyloniern," pp. 16 et seq., Leipsic, 1901; Guthe, "Kurzes Bibel-wörterb." p. 272, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903).

 

[The Learner]

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (Ḥag. 13b). This is "the fire of the West, which every setting sun receives. I came to a fiery river, whose fire flows like water, and which empties into a large sea in the West" (Enoch, xvii. 4-6). Hell here is described exactly as in the Talmud. The Persians believed that glowing molten metal flowed under the feet of sinners (Schwally, "Das Leben nach dem Tode," p. 145, Giessen, 1892). The waters of the warm springs of Tiberias are heated while flowing past Gehenna (Shab. 39a). The fire of Gehenna never goes out (Tosef., Ber. 6, 7; Mark ix. 43 et seq.; Matt. xviii. 8, xxv. 41; comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176); there is always plenty of wood there (Men. 100a). This fire is sixty times as hot as any earthly fire (Ber. 57b). There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεῖς Ιστορίαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire. Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

 

[The Learner]

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b). The souls of the sons of Korah were burned, and the angel-prince gnashed his teeth at them on account of their flattery of Korah (Sanh. 52a). Gehenna cries: "Give me the heretics and the sinful [Roman] power" ('Ab. Zarah 17a).

Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B. M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b). They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a).

 

[The Learner]

There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b). The felicity of the pious in paradise excites the wrath of the sinners who behold it when they come from hell (Lev. R. xxxii.). The Book of Enoch (xxvii. 3, xlviii. 9, lxii. 12) paraphrases this thought by saying that the pious rejoice in the pains of hell suffered by the sinners. Abraham takes the damned to his bosom ('Er. 19a; comp. Luke xvi. 19-31). The fire of Gehenna does not touch the Jewish sinners because they confess their sins before the gates of hell and return to God ('Er. 19a). As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17).

 

[The Learner]

Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.)
The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Soṭah 4b, 41b; Ta'an. 5a; B. B. 10b, 78b; 'Ab. Zarah 18b; Ned. 22a). Hell awaits one who indulges in unseemly speech (Shab. 33a; Enoch, xxvii.); who always follows the advice of his wife (B. M. 59a); who instructs an unworthy pupil (Ḥul. 133b); who turns away from the Torah (B. B. 79a; comp. Yoma 72b). For further details see 'Er. 18b, 101a; Sanh. 109b; Ḳid. 81a; Ned. 39b; B. M. 19a.

On the other hand, there are merits that preserve man from going to hell; e.g., philanthropy, fasting, visiting the sick, reading the Shema' and Hallel, and eating the three meals on the Sabbath (Giṭ. 7a; B. B. 10a; B. M. 85a; Ned. 40a; Ber. 15b; Pes. 118a; Shab. 118a). Israelites in general are less endangered (Ber. 10a) than heretics, or, according to B. B. 10a, than the heathen. Scholars (Ḥag. 27a; comp. Men. 99b and Yoma 87a), the poor, and the pious (Yeb. 102b) are especially protected. Three classes of men do not see the face of hell: those that live in penury, those suffering with intestinal catarrh, and those that are pressed by their creditors ('Er. 41b). It would seem that the expressions "doomed to hell" and "to be saved from hell" must be interpreted hyperbolically. A bad woman is compared to Gehenna in Yeb. 63b. On the names of Gehenna see 'Er. 19a; B. B. 79a; Sanh. 111b; et al.

Bibliography:

• Winer, B. R. i. 491;
• Hamburger, R. B. T. i. 527-530;
• Hastings, Dict. Bible, ii. 343-346;
• H. Guthe, Kurzes Bibelwörterb. pp. 271-274, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903;
• G. Brecher, Das Transcendentale, etc. pp. 69-73, Vienna, 1850;
• A. Hilgenfeld, Jüdische Apocalyptik, Index, Jena, 1857;
• F. Weber, Jüdische Theologie, pp. 336 et seq.;
• E. Stave, Der Einfluss des Parsismus auf das Judenthum, pp. 153-192 et seq., Haarlem, 1898;
• James, Traditional Aspects of Hell, London, 1903.

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[The Learner]

"
IV Life Eternal and Death Eternal
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https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198266389.003.0004

Pages

62–89

• Published:
  
  May 1974

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Abstract
Frederick Denison Maurice was dismissed from his professorial chair at King's College, London, in 1853 as a consequence of his views on eternal punishment. Most men at the time believed that, in his Theological Essays, Maurice had denied the popular view of hell, though they were generally uncertain about the positive doctrine which he maintained. This chapter examines various influences: Coleridge's Unitarianism; the teaching of the Scottish divines, Erskine of Linlathen and McLeod Campbell; the Cambridge Platonists; and the mystical tradition of Jacob Boehme and William Law. All these left their mark on Maurice's theology, and must be taken into account in any assessment of Maurice's eschatological teaching.
"
https://academic.oup.com/book/9245/chapter-abstract/155924283?redirectedFrom=fulltext

"
BOOK

Hell and the Victorians: A Study of the Nineteenth-Century Theological Controversies concerning Eternal Punishment and the Future Life
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Hell and the Victorians: A Study of the Nineteenth-Century Theological Controversies concerning Eternal Punishment and the Future Life
Online ISBN:

9780191683022
Print ISBN:

9780198266389
Publisher:

Oxford University Press

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Abstract
This book is a study of eschatological debates at a time when the idea of eternal punishment was under question, and English Christianity was affected by the contrasting Anglican movements of Evangelicalism and Tractarianism and by the controversy over Darwinism. As the nineteenth century began, of all the articles of accepted Christian orthodoxy that troubled the consciences of Victorian churchmen, none caused more anxiety than the everlasting punishment of the wicked. The flames of hell illuminated vividly the tensions of an age in which men felt that old certainties were being eroded by new knowledge and rapid social change. The distant and impersonal God was increasingly repudiated as an immoral tyrant, and hell became a stumbling-block to Christian believers and a weapon of attack for secularists. The need of hell as a moral sanction meant that it could not be simply and quietly discarded. Criticism was coming from outside and inside Christian theology. Later in the nineteenth century, not only the doctrine of hell, but also the very possibility of any future life appeared increasingly implausible. Evolutionary theory appeared to many to deal a death blow to any special claim on behalf of man, and to cast doubt on much traditional language about the soul and its assumed immorality. The nineteenth-century debates about eternal punishment and the future of life are not to be dismissed as peripheral matters. They bring into sharp focus the gradual breakdown of an accepted pattern of human self-understanding, and provide a case study of the ways in which Christian writers and thinkers still committed to that tradition of understanding. This book is about the Victorian crisis of faith. It studies the course of these debates to show in details the issues involved and the arguments employed at various times in the century.
"
https://academic.oup.com/book/9245

 

[The Learner]

"The Rabbis also did not maintain that he who gave up the belief in Revelation and Resurrection, and treated irreverently the teachers of Israel, severed his connection with the Jewish nation, but that, for his crime, he was going to suffer the heaviest punishment. He was to be excluded from the world to come. Still, important as is the passage quoted from Synhedrin, it would be erroneous to think that it exhausted the creed of the Rabbis. The liturgy and innumerable passages in the Mid- rashim show that they ardently clung to the belief in the advent of the Messiah. All their hope was turned to the future redemption and the final establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth
...
ped of this belief, would have been for them devoid of meaning. The belief in reward and punishment is also repeated again and again in the old Rabbinic literature. A more emphatic declaration of the belief in Providence than is conveyed by the following pas- sages is hardly conceivable. "Everything is foreseen, and free will is given. And the world is judged by grace." Or " the born are to die, and the dead to revive, and the living to be judged. For to know and to notify, and that it may be known that He (God) is the framer and He the Creator, and He the Discerner, and He the Judge, and He the Witness," But it must not be forgotten that it was not the habit of the Rabbis to lay down either for conduct or doctrine rules which were commonly known. When they urged the three points stated above there must have been some historical reason for it. Probably these principles were controverted by some heretics. Indeed, the whole tone of the Mishnah is a protest against certain unbelievers who are threatened with punishment.
...
tion; 8. Resur- rection of the dead; 9. Punishment and reward after death;
...
s. He says in his preface, "My heart sickens to see that the belief of my co-religionists is impure and that their theological views are confused." The subjects he treats in this book, such as creation, unity of God, resurrec- tion of the dead, the future redemption of Israel, reward and punishment, and other kindred theological subjects might thus, perhaps, be considered as the essentials of the creed that the Gaon desired to present in a pure and rational fo
...
d Torah. 10. The belief t God knows the acts of men. 11. The belief in Reward and Punishment. 12. The belief in the coming of the Messiah. 13. The belief in the Resurrection of the dead."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/14...62819bfe95a45&ab_segments=&origin=&acceptTC=1

 

[The Learner]

above is from

1. 
   The Jewish Quarterly ReviewVol. 1, No. 1, Oct., 1888The Dogmas of Judaism

JSTOR: Search Results
JSTOR: Search Results

JSTOR: Search Results

Yes Virgina, eternal punishment is taught in Judaism as I was taught in Hebrew School.

 

[The Learner]

"The spirits of the sinners described in vv 10-11 [of 1 Enoch 22] will be transferred to a final place of terrible and eternal punishment. Moreover, from 24:2-25:6, it appears that the righteous will be raised to a new and long life in Jerusalem...” (306).
...,
while the souls of the wicked suffer eternal punishment’ (War 2.164)”"
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/153207902.pdf

 

[The Learner]

You are just so funny! If scriptures are in Google does that invalidate them? Do you cross them out of your Bible? For your information that came from just one of a thousand essays I wrote in 85.



Any scripture would be lame to a Jehovah's Witness, they just make it up as they go. And if they don't like it they write their own heretical Bible.

Are the essays you wrote in 85 online?

 

[The Learner]

Does it surprise you that being in the Old Testament....that that is a Jewish belief....Ever considered converting to Judaism?

I grew up in an LDS plural wife sect known as Sextons. My Father was murdered while going after his 18th wife. One of my Mothers was Jewish, so the oldest of us were required to attend Temple and After Regular Public School Attend Hebrew School. I was expected to become an Rabbi and as such recieved the training. Dad married women of other religions we all had to attend too(even those in other cults). When my Father was killed, I became the new Prophet. I called everyone together for my first and only prophecy. I said, "There will be no prophets after me. For the men to stop marrying their Sisters, that everyone is to have a normal life of one man and women in marriage." I next preached the Biblical Gospel and taught about the real Jesus. Many came to Christ that day. The Ladies were delighted about the normal marriage part. The guys who did not come to Jesus have not spoken to me since then. My Father was murdered March 17, 1993 and I was born again on Easter 1974 at 11:46 AM at Westland Free Methodist Church. I followed a good looking girl to Church that day.

 

[The Learner]

None of that is true. Hebrews 10:26-27 cannot be quoting Isaiah because God did not threaten the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews with hell fire. He punished them in this world. A lot of people do not know what to do with Hebrews as a whole and there are reasons for that.
As far as an understanding of a place of fire.....Christians understand....it is you that does not understand. Biblically the Bible tells us as much about Hell as it does about Heaven.

I looked at possible texts in Isaiah like below each one is about fire wipping out the physically living on earth, NOT about the Afterlife. I have encountered this poor use of proof texting among Bible Students where JW's came from and Christadelphians. I think this stupid use of Scripture comes from Christadelphian books. The guy who started that cult did not believe in supernational.

Isaiah 33
Easy-to-Read Version

The Lord Will Show His Power
33 Look at you. You attack others when you have not been attacked. You turn against others when no one has turned against you. So when you stop your attacks, you will be attacked. When you stop turning against others, they will turn against you.

2 Lord, be kind to us.
We have waited for your help.
Give us strength every morning.
Save us when we are in trouble.
3 Your powerful voice makes people run away in fear.
Your greatness causes the nations to run away.

4 You people stole things in war. Those things will be taken from you. Many will come and take your wealth. It will be like the times when locusts come and eat all your crops.

5 The Lord is very great. He lives in a very high place. He fills Zion with justice and goodness.

6 Jerusalem, you are rich with wisdom and knowledge of God. You are rich with salvation. You respect the Lord, and that makes you rich.

7 But listen! The messengers are crying outside. The messengers who bring peace are crying very hard. 8 The roads are empty; there is no one walking along the paths. People don’t respect each other. They have broken the agreements they made, and they refuse to believe what witnesses tell them. 9 The land is sick and dying. Lebanon is dying and Sharon Valley is dry and empty. Bashan and Carmel once grew beautiful plants—but now those plants have stopped growing.

10 The Lord says, “Now, I will stand and show people how great and powerful I am. 11 You people have done useless things. These things are like hay and straw. They are worth nothing! Your breath will be like a fire and burn you. 12 People will be burned until their bones become lime. They will burn quickly like thorns and dry bushes.

13 “You people in faraway lands, listen to what I have done. You people who are near me, learn about my power.”

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid. Those who do wrong shake with fear. They say, “Can any of us live through this fire that destroys? Who can live near this fire that burns forever?”

15 Good, honest people who refuse to hurt others for money will live through that fire. They refuse to take bribes or listen to plans to murder other people. They refuse to look at plans for doing bad things. 16 They will live safely in high places. They will be protected in high rock fortresses. They will always have food and water.

17 Your eyes will see the King in his beauty. You will see the great land. 18-19 When you think about the troubles you had in the past, you will wonder, “Where are those foreigners who spoke languages we could not understand. Where are the officials and tax collectors from other lands? Where are the spies who counted our defense towers?”

God Will Protect Jerusalem
20 Look at Zion, the city of our religious festivals. Look at Jerusalem—that beautiful place of rest. Jerusalem is like a tent that will never be moved. The pegs that hold her in place will never be pulled up. Her ropes will never be broken, 21-23 because the Lord is our powerful leader there. That land is a place with streams and wide rivers, but there will be no enemy boats or powerful ships on those rivers. You men who work on such boats can stop your work with the ropes. You cannot make the mast strong enough. You will not be able to open your sails, because the Lord is our judge. He makes our laws. He is our king. He saves us. The Lord will give us our wealth. Even crippled people will get their share. 24 No one living there will say, “I am sick,” because everyone living there has had their guilt removed.

Footnotes

1. Isaiah 33:7 messengers … messengers The Hebrew text has two different words that can also mean “angels.”
2. Isaiah 33:8 witnesses Literally, “cities.”
3. Isaiah 33:12 lime A white powder that is often used to make mortar or cement. It can be made by burning bones, shells, or limestone.
4. Isaiah 33:14 fire that … burns forever This might mean God, the Fire (Light) of Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

I grew up in an LDS plural wife sect known as Sextons. My Father was murdered while going after his 18th wife. One of my Mothers was Jewish, so the oldest of us were required to attend Temple and After Regular Public School Attend Hebrew School. I was expected to become an Rabbi and as such recieved the training. Dad married women of other religions we all had to attend too(even those in other cults). When my Father was killed, I became the new Prophet. I called everyone together for my first and only prophecy. I said, "There will be no prophets after me. For the men to stop marrying their Sisters, that everyone is to have a normal life of one man and women in marriage." I next preached the Biblical Gospel and taught about the real Jesus. Many came to Christ that day. The Ladies were delighted about the normal marriage part. The guys who did not come to Jesus have not spoken to me since then. My Father was murdered March 17, 1993 and I was born again on Easter 1974 at 11:46 AM at Westland Free Methodist Church. I followed a good looking girl to Church that day.

Well I got to tell ya that that sounds pretty wild.

 

[The Learner]

Well I got to tell ya that that sounds pretty wild.

Yes, in the Barn we turned into our home, We older Children took the top floor. We also kept track of all Women's peroid to avoid those in that time of the month and push the youngest towards those who were not in their bad mood.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, in the Barn we turned into our home, We older Children took the top floor. We also kept track of all Women's peroid to avoid those in that time of the month and push the youngest towards those who were not in their bad mood.

WOW!

 

[face2face]

None of that is true. Hebrews 10:26-27 cannot be quoting Isaiah because God did not threaten the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews with hell fire. He punished them in this world. A lot of people do not know what to do with Hebrews as a whole and there are reasons for that.
As far as an understanding of a place of fire.....Christians understand....it is you that does not understand. Biblically the Bible tells us as much about Hell as it does about Heaven.

It is due to your inability to enter the text - yes you can speak at it with your false teachings but opening it to give light is not known by you.

Hebrews 10:27 but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume God’s enemies.

Consume means they will be eternally forgotten never to exist in any form!

Isaiah 26:11 O Lord, you are ready to act, but they don’t even notice. They will see and be put to shame by your angry judgment against humankind, yes, fire will consume your enemies.

Maybe you cannot see the illusion!

Of course you can see this is not a literal fire but figurative of the destruction of the wicked.

Do you understand what figurative language is and how it is used throughout the Word?

F2F

 

[Grailhunter]

Consume means they will be eternally forgotten never to exist in any form!

Yes what does eternal punishment mean....is it hell fire. Lets see....

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Matthew 8:12 While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

 

[face2face]

Yes what does eternal punishment mean....is it hell fire. Lets see....

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Matthew 8:12 While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

I'll ask you again.

Do you understand how figurative language is used in the Bible?

 

[Jack]

I'll ask you again.

Do you understand how figurative language is used in the Bible?

Do YOU understand that Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell? Have you read the NT?
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'll ask you again.

Do you understand how figurative language is used in the Bible?

Been educated on it.....and something that some people call hyperbolic and that is kind of accurate. What most people do not know is the religious literary style of the time period....that confuses people because the Apostles would state things that were at both ends of the topic....that is why here on the forum people can throw so many scriptures at each other and both sides be right. That is probably one of reasons that there are over 30,000 denominations....You cannot understand the Bible unless you get a solid grip on the overall spirit of the Bible...Christ...and Christianity.

It is hard to explain....when I first got here I tried to explain but it went over their heads....So during a debate on a topic I would give both side all the scriptures that supported their beliefs.....but they still did not catch on.