The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[rebuilder 454]

Let's pretend it is a parable.
The message is the same either way.

 

[Douggg]

You said: "The seventh trumpet signals the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, as he will be cast down to earth."

You're ignoring Rev 10 where John writes that when the seventh trumpet begins to sound there should be time no longer. You haven't explained how there can be time, times and half a time when time shall be no longer???

In verse 6, it means no further delay, because in verse 7 is an expression of time "in the days" of the voice of the seventh angel. "days" is an expression of time.

There also will be a thousand years after Jesus returns. Also an expression of time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Christians left behind in the GT, are those that lost their zeal, intimacy, and first love.
Some are in habitual sin
They are not worthy.
Not ready
Not prepared.
That is Why "some pray" ( not postribbers) what Jesus said to pray;
" PRAY that you may be COUNTED WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of God "
No postibber would ever pray that.
( escape and rapture are evil to those adherents)
Dear Lord open their eyes.

 

[jeffweeder]

That is Why "some pray" ( not postribbers) what Jesus said to pray;
" PRAY that you may be COUNTED WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of God "
No postibber would ever pray that.
( escape and rapture are evil to those adherents)
Dear Lord open their eyes.

What believers are worthy to escape is God's righteous judgment.

2Thess 1
3 We ought always and indeed are morally obligated [as those in debt] to give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters, as is fitting, because your faith is growing ever greater, and the [unselfish] love of each one of you toward one another is continually increasing. 4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

This is exactly what Jesus taught when he compared his coming for us like Noah's day.
On that day ALL the ungodly completely perished.

Dear man, it is you who should now open your eyes.
God bless.

 

[rebuilder 454]

What believers are worthy to escape is God's righteous judgment.

2Thess 1
3 We ought always and indeed are morally obligated [as those in debt] to give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters, as is fitting, because your faith is growing ever greater, and the [unselfish] love of each one of you toward one another is continually increasing. 4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

This is exactly what Jesus taught when he compared his coming for us like Noah's day.
On that day ALL the ungodly completely perished.

Dear man, it is you who should now open your eyes.
God bless.

You are referring to salvation.
Jesus is not, in his "worthy vs unworthy" dynamic
Not all recieve crowns.why?
Not all are worthy

Not all saved go up with Jesus in the rapture
( 5 foolish virgins)
Again , not all were worthy.
Only those Christians worthy, as Jesus is saying, will go in the rapture.
Jesus is telling CHRISTIANS to, " PRAY TO BE COUNTRD WORTHY......"
Under your false assumption, God himself should not have a bema seat since all are worthy of awards.

My eyes are open.
Wide open to the Holy Words of Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 11:14, is saying that John had been shown what the second woe would be (a third of mankind killed by a 200,000,000 size army) and that he would shortly be shown what the third woe will be.

You have yet to place where the time, times, half time that Satan will have left occurs in relation to Jesus's Second Coming.

You said back in the first century, following Jesus's resurrection. But that cannot be the case because Satan still roams about, like a lion, seeking who he can devour.

LOL. No, Revelation 11:14 specifically says the second woe (sixth trumpet) is PAST. That means it's done. And then the third woe (seventh trumpet) follows quickly after that. This is obvious, but you miss even the most obvious things and you constantly twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. Everyone can see that. Your interpretation of Revelation 11:14 is A BIG JOKE. You can't be taken seriously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are referring to salvation.
Jesus is not, in his "worthy vs unworthy" dynamic
Not all recieve crowns.why?
Not all are worthy

Not all saved go up with Jesus in the rapture
( 5 foolish virgins)
Again , not all were worthy.

Tell us how it's possible that Jesus would tell saved people that He doesn't know them as it shows Him saying to people like the foolish virgins. That is absolutely ridiculous. It's not possible to be saved without Jesus knowing you. You don't even know what salvation is! That is very disturbing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said: "The seventh trumpet signals the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, as he will be cast down to earth."

You're ignoring Rev 10 where John writes that when the seventh trumpet begins to sound there should be time no longer. You haven't explained how there can be time, times and half a time when time shall be no longer???

He's also ignoring that it says it signals "the time of the dead, that they should be judged" which we know occurs AFTER the thousand years and Satan's little season, as portrayed in Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The dude has some underlying issues.
Seems like a very unhappy individual.
He actually hates those challenging his "doctrine".

Maybe you shouldn't be so overly sensitive just because someone disagrees with you and calls you out for never backing up your claims with any exegesis of scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

View attachment 49134

And where is this indicated in Daniel 9? Are you making things up to make scripture say what you want it to say again, Douggggggg?

 

[jeffweeder]

You are referring to salvation.
Jesus is not, in his "worthy vs unworthy" dynamic
Not all recieve crowns.why?
Not all are worthy

Not all saved go up with Jesus in the rapture
( 5 foolish virgins)
Again , not all were worthy.
Only those Christians worthy, as Jesus is saying, will go in the rapture.
Jesus is telling CHRISTIANS to, " PRAY TO BE COUNTRD WORTHY......"
Under your false assumption, God himself should not have a bema seat since all are worthy of awards.

My eyes are open.
Wide open to the Holy Words of Jesus.

4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.



They are considered worthy because they endure all persecution and crushing distress.
Nobody is considered worthy, so they can escape suffering.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 11:14 specifically says the second woe (sixth trumpet) is PAST. That means it's done.

No, it means that John had already been shown what it was. And is about to be shown what the third woe will be.

The only woe to the inhabiters of the earth remaining in Revelation is in Revelation 12:12, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that his time is short. Which is the third woe.

 

[Douggg]

And where is this indicated in Daniel 9? Are you making things up to make scripture say what you want it to say again, Douggggggg?

The 7 years are in Daniel 9:27.

The 1260 days testimony time of the two witnesses is in Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6 (as Israel is fed the word of God)
The time, times, half time that Satan will have left is in Revelation 12:12-14.

 

[Keraz]

They are considered worthy because they endure all persecution and crushing distress.
Nobody is considered worthy, so they can escape suffering.

This is the truth, all must be tested and the great Test of our faith will come with the commencement of the end times events. 1 Peter 4:12

The idea of a rapture removal to heaven, is a satanic lie and those who have believed it and want to avoid any testing, are described in Hebrews 12:8

 

[rwb]

In verse 6, it means no further delay, because in verse 7 is an expression of time "in the days" of the voice of the seventh angel. "days" is an expression of time.

There also will be a thousand years after Jesus returns. Also an expression of time.

No further delay of what? Yes, when the seventh trumpet begins to sound the days/time/age given the Church for building the Kingdom of God (a thousand symbolic years) shall be no longer. There will not be another one thousand years to follow. The only time left shall be for Satan to have his little season that shall end with him and his minions being utterly burned up.

 

[WPM]

In verse 6, it means no further delay, because in verse 7 is an expression of time "in the days" of the voice of the seventh angel. "days" is an expression of time.

There also will be a thousand years after Jesus returns. Also an expression of time.

Stop twisting every text that forbids Pretrib.

Time is no more. The mystery of God is finished. We shall then know, even as we are known. Hello!

 

[Douggg]

Stop twisting every text that forbids Pretrib.

Time is no more. The mystery of God is finished. We shall then know, even as we are known. Hello!

The verse has nothing to do with any rapture timing.

How can it mean that time no longer exists if in the very next verse - "in the days of the voice of the seventh angel" ? "days" is a measure of time.

Revelation 10:
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Douggg]

No further delay of what?

No further delay to the finishing fulfillment of the mystery of God - as He declared to his servants the prophets. (verse 7)

What is that mystery ? God's plan to end Satan's efforts to destroy God's creation.

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[David in NJ]

The Christians left behind in the GT, are those that lost their zeal, intimacy, and first love.
Some are in habitual sin
They are not worthy.
Not ready
Not prepared.
That is Why "some pray" ( not postribbers) what Jesus said to pray;
" PRAY that you may be COUNTED WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of God "
No postibber would ever pray that.
( escape and rapture are evil to those adherents)
Dear Lord open their eyes.

i am a follower of the Post-Tribber the LORD Jesus Christ.

i continue to pray luke 21:36

It is an essential prayer for us who believe to escape temptation and sin and to stand before the LORD at His Coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it means that John had already been shown what it was. And is about to be shown what the third woe will be.

LOL. That is completely ludicrous. You continually make scripture say what you want it to say which is completely dishonest. The way you twist scripture on a regular basis is shameful.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

This does not say "the second woe vision is over and soon I will be shown the third woe vision". It clearly says the second woe is past at that point and the third woe will quickly follow it. Any honest, unbiased, objective person can easily see that. But you are not honest, unbiased and objective.

The only woe to the inhabiters of the earth remaining in Revelation is in Revelation 12:12, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that his time is short. Which is the third woe.

Total nonsense. Revelation 12 is not a chronological continuation from Revelation 11. That is obvious. It starts out by referring to Christ's birth and ascension which obviously did not follow the sounding of the seventh trumpet.