The absurdity of Pretrib logic
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 14:
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
The Antichrist will not be buried (verse 19). Nor have the honor of being laid to rest in an ornate tomb, like other famous kings (verse 18).
God has great disdain for the person - who the Jews at one time will have thought that he was their King of Israel messiah.
When the person goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood - the Jews will disown him as their King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.
Being rejected, he will turn on them. Verse 20, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people:
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Bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion that God will send to them who believed the person's big lie that he had achieved God hood.
2Thessalonians2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
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That is talking about Satan and Babylon back in the day. Why are you trying to deceive us? Talk about twisting Scripture! This is typical of Pretrib. Because you have no Scripture you treat the Scriptures like the cults do. You manipulate to say whatever you want.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, andslain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
You left out the word "you". i.e. Why did you not not give us the reference of what you quoted?
I was responding to @Spiritual Israelite who had given the reference - Isaiah 14, based on what I posted to him before.
But I did go back and edited my post to include "Isaiah 14" as the reference.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
For what reason would God resurrect this person who he has great disdain for?
Jesus said all unbelievers will be resurrected at the same time unto damnation (John 5:28-29). Can you show me where He made any exceptions to that?
Nice story. Too bad it's all in your imagination. You are once again trying to make scripture say what you want it to say. Nowhere did Paul teach such nonsense. The lie that they believe is that they each essentially believe that they are God due to thinking they don't need God because "they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10). People aren't going to believe that some person sitting in some temple claiming to be God is God. That's nonsense. The people Paul was talking about are too caught up in their own perceived Godhood to think that someone else is God including the one true God. That's what Paul is talking about in 2 Thess 2. By falling away from the faith a person is essentially deciding that they are God since they are declaring that they don't need God anymore.
Verse 12 is referring to Satan, and Satan's desire to be worshiped in verse 13-14 as being like God.
Verse 15 switches to the Antichrist, who Satan will be instrumental in the Antichrist's claiming of having achieved God-hood. Verse 16 reveals the switch by ...
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
....verses 18-20 confirms it is no longer talking about Satan, by referring to kings of the nation lying in ornate tombs (each in his own "house"). And going on to say that the person, a man, will not be buried. Because he destroyed his land and his people - i.e. the person will be a Jew, who will turn on his own people. It is not talking about Satan any longer in verses 15-20.
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Bringing the person back to life is the strong delusion that God will send to them who believed the person's big lie that he had achieved God hood.
2Thessalonians2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
The Light
Well-Known Member
LOL. You mean like you guys do and falsify the words. Nah, I don't need to put false information to lead others from the truth. The scripture is clear enough.
So what trumpet is that rapture in. Just quote the verse. I don't need you to doctor it up with false information.
You are such a manipulator of Scripture. You twist it to make it say whatever you want. Shame on you!
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Your continual avoidance and infantile interactions expose the extra-biblical nature of your doctrine. You have nothing to bring to the table of biblical worth. That is why you do not. When you do and your error is exposed you avoid and quote something else out of context.
It’s the 7th trumpet when Christ returns.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our LORD, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
Isaiah 14......Verse 15 switches to the Antichrist, who Satan will be instrumental in the Antichrist's claiming of having achieved God-hood.
What lands the Antichrist's soul in hell in Isaiah 14, for a brief period of time, maybe a couple of days, is that he will be
assassinated for his "transgression of desolation" act of 2Thessalonians2:3-4. That he will be assassinated is in Ezekiel 38:1-10, for sitting in the seat of God.
Let's look at those two verses, regarding the "transgression of desolation" act....
2Thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
.... back in Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Judas was also known as the son of perdition. And was also a betrayer - of Jesus (Luke 22:6). Jesus of course was a Jew ethnically speaking.
Whether Satan literally entered Judas, or got into his head by placing the thought there of betraying Jesus - I don't know. But we do know for certain that Satan influenced Judas's actions in Judas becoming known as the son of perdition.
So we have a parallel, regarding the Antichrist. Called the son of perdition, like Judas, and also betrayer who will turn on his own Jewish people and the nation of Israel (Isaiah 14:.20). And like Satan was instrumental in Judas's action, Satan will be instrumental in the Antichrist's transgression of desolation act.
Isaiah 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
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Even more ....
When the Antichrist is assassinated, in Ezekiel 28:8 it says....
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
When Jesus told the story about the rich man and Lazarus, in the place of the dead (16:19-31) - hell it appears is divided into two areas (annotated below on my graphic), separated by an impassable great gulf. I think that great gulf is the bottomless pit.
So when the slain man of sin's soul is cast out of hell in Isaiah 14:19, coming out of the adjacent bottomless pit at the same time will be the spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast used by Satan to deceive Adam and Eve into sin.
That unclean spirit of the serpent beast will enter the former Antichrist (thought-to-be messiah by the Jews for a while) and is why in Revelation, going forward for the last 42 months of the 7 years, the person is called "the beast".
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The Light
Well-Known Member
What avoidance are you referring to. I have asked to keep it simple and try to post any end time belief you have that I can't disprove with scripture. Simple enough, and yet it is you that are avoiding.
Got any scripture that disproves what I'm saying. Nope. Just personal attacks.
Ah. The usual denial. Quit your babbling and try to post your end time beliefs that I can't disprove with scripture.
Yakety yak..........yak yak yak. I have given you the simplest task of choosing any end time belief you have that I can't disprove with scripture. Stop avoiding.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Oh. You mean AFTER the wrath of God when He has set up His kingdom on earth. That means he and you are post wrathers and not post tribbers.
Additionally, you both have the Church going through the wrath of God. Do you not understand that believers are not appointed to wrath?
1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
A wise man would realize that is undeniable proof that your beliefs are in error.
And scripture will prove these erroneous beliefs incorrect over and over and over. It's time some of you open your eyes.
That’s very true.
Revelation 16:2. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
@The Light
If I remember correctly, you believe that the duration of God's wrath to be one year ?
If so, take a look at my chart of the great tribulation. I have on it a header "One year of God's wrath". Which would be the last year of the 1335 days long great tribulation.
If I remember correctly, you believe that the duration of God's wrath to be one year ?
If so, take a look at my chart of the great tribulation. I have on it a header "One year of God's wrath". Which would be the last year of the 1335 days long great tribulation.
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