The 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins

[rebuilder 454]

The Church as it exists _ in Christ _ is ALL raptured at that time of His return Those left behind are not yet in Christ. These would be Jews AND those people who thought they were Christians, but never really believed, were on the fence, nor were they baptized by the Holy Spirit. These are like the foolish virgins who did not have oil.
I think many people have gone through life, attending church on occasion, with a half hearted admiration for Christ but never really made a commitment; nor has anyone seen any changes in them, or fire for the Word. Whe. Christ shows up they will wonder why they weren't included. They will see Him and then believe, but will have to go through the GT, die maybe and have to wait till the 2nd RESURRECTION.
I can imagine the reaction from the world filled with their false religions, the shame and sorrow they will experience, knowing all their lives, they followed after something other than the TRUTH. If they have already taken the mark of the Beast, than it will be too late. But if not, God is merciful. I would like to think half the world's population will be saved.
And what is the "mark of the Beast"?
Earlier I claimed that Islam was the Beast, led by Iran and many countries who are now attacking Israel. Then the mark would be on their hand or forehead. Mark= the words, In the name of Allah. Terrorists wear this phrase on a bandana around their foreheads or on their sleeves.

View attachment 51611

Ok you are blending things in a blender and leaving things out.
The rapture is the gathering of the bride.

Paul said there are two types of christians. There are carnal Christians and there are spiritual Christians.
It is the spiritual Christians that that are the bride.

the bride consists of spiritual Christians not carnal Christians. Carnal Christians are Laden in sin.
They do not go in the rapture, they stay.
They have to deal with the Antichrist.

who do you think the people are that are refusing the mark?
Who do you think the innumerable number are that are Before the Throne at the very start of the tribulation.?
Why do you think they had dirty robes?
Why did they need their ropes washed when they got to heaven?
Why do you think Jesus prayed to his very own people to pray that they be counted Worthy for the rapture?
Should they not need to pray that prayer, since they're just automatically going to be included in the rapture?
Why did Jesus say in the seven letters to the seven churches, that in order for Him to keep them from the Great Tribulation, they would have to keep the word of his testimony?
Why did he put the rapture as conditional in the seven letters to the seven churches?
Was the Rapture conditional, when Jesus said, "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape"?

I do believe those questions have to be answered they can't just be swept under the table

 

[One 2 question]

I don't know why you change the parable.
But somehow you DO NEED it changed.
Just say you don't know what is going in.
Don't misrepresent Gods word for some belief you have.

Jesus never did say "I never knew you"
You totally misrepresented the parable.

“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

 

[rebuilder 454]

“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

Exactly.
Glad you corrected it.

Maybe you are unaware you inserted " never knew" ?
Read the 7 letters to the seven churches.
See what happens and how Jesus threatened BELIEVERS if they did not straighten up.

Are you aware of several things that are CONDITIONAL with God?

Maybe start there.
Get that understanding.
Then re read the parable.

We are children.
We are REWARDED for obedience and dedication or perseverance.
We are CHASTISED for rebellion, sin, and disobedience.
The 5 carnal virgins were not WORTHY.
Just that simple
....but tons of believers struggle over the dynamic of salvation.

 

[One 2 question]

You do not understand salvation.
The parable has ZERO TO DO with salvation.

The parable is, "worthy vs unworthy".
Jesus said," pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things that are about to come upon the Earth and to stand before the son of God".


When Jesus said that he was pointing directly to the 10 virgin parable.
It seemes that you don't understand there's two kinds of Christians, there's carnal ,and their spiritual.
Paul addressed this heavily in 1st Corinthians and vividly Illustrated the two kinds of Christians.
In heaven at the bema seat rewards will be distributed crowns will be distributed.
They are totally based on worthy versus unworthy.
The crowns have nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.

being a carnal Christian or spiritual Christian has zero to do with either obtaining or losing salvation.
You're trying to make the parable Center on Saved versus unsaved and that is completely opposite of what the parable is about.

...and no truth is not the Holy Spirit. Nor is a level of truth a level of the Holy Spirit.
The devil operates in a level of truth.
The devil has zero Holy Spirit.

Jesus was preparing His followers to be ready for His return way back then. Those who carried out His business while waiting for His return made it into the marriage feast. Those who didn't use what they were given and were not ready for His return found themselves outside where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Some will enter while others won't. Some will be taken up others won't. Some will enter the ark and be saved from the flood, others won't be saved.

All these were spoken by Jesus at the same event Matthew 24 & 25. Then at the beginning of 26 it was recorded,
Mat 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples.

It's about some being saved by their Saviour/Groom, while the rest are not saved by Him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ok you are blending things in a blender and leaving things out.
The rapture is the gathering of the bride.

Paul said there are two types of christians. There are carnal Christians and there are spiritual Christians.
It is the spiritual Christians that that are the bride.

the bride consists of spiritual Christians not carnal Christians. Carnal Christians are Laden in sin.
They do not go in the rapture, they stay.
They have to deal with the Antichrist.

who do you think the people are that are refusing the mark?
Who do you think the innumerable number are that are Before the Throne at the very start of the tribulation.?
Why do you think they had dirty robes?
Why did they need their ropes washed when they got to heaven?
Why do you think Jesus prayed to his very own people to pray that they be counted Worthy for the rapture?
Should they not need to pray that prayer, since they're just automatically going to be included in the rapture?
Why did Jesus say in the seven letters to the seven churches, that in order for Him to keep them from the Great Tribulation, they would have to keep the word of his testimony?
Why did he put the rapture as conditional in the seven letters to the seven churches?
Was the Rapture conditional, when Jesus said, "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape"?

I do believe those questions have to be answered they can't just be swept under the table

All Christians have experienced this battle with our flesh. When we are infants, we might cling to old habits, focus on the fleshly things. When we become more mature, then we say no to those ways.
There is this spiritual growth going on with this battle between flesh and spirit. Paul even had it. He did things he did not want to do.
"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” Rom. 8:56
So we start out totally carnal, then change. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us. When we are born again, we become New Creatures and He Seals our salvation, regardless whether we are infants or mature. Jesus is the AUTHOR of our faith - He prepares us, equips us, He writes our story and finishes it! We are just strongly encouraged to cooperate with His plan, but we don't earn salvation - He paid the price. Once saved, we are to be obedient.
"And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people." 1 Cor. 3:1-3

So, here, he is talking to infant Christians, immature, who need a kick in the butt ... "Come on ... move along ... I gave you milk, yet you are still squabbling, jealous and arguing". So he is rebuking them to stop being fleshly.
But this does not mean that they _ at Jesus time of return _ will be left behind.

The rapture consists of all Christians no matter where they are in their walk - could be someone saved the day before.

Those left behind have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit/ born again. Obviously they are carnal but they are not Christians yet.

 

[One 2 question]

All Christians have experienced this battle with our flesh. When we are infants, we might cling to old habits, fo us on the fleshly things. When we become more mature, then we say no to those ways.
Sintherwbus this spiritual growth going on with this battle between flesh and spirit. Paul even had it. He did things he did not want to do.
"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” Rom. 8:56
So we start out totally carnal, then change. The Holy Spirit sanctified us. When we are born again, we become. New Creature and He Seals our salvation, regardless whether we are infants or mature. Jesus is the AUTHOR of our faith - He prepares us, equips us, He writes our story and finishes it! We are just strongly encouraged to cooperate with His plan, but we don't earn salvation - He paid the price. Once saved, we are to be obedient.
"And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people." 1 Cor. 3:1-3

So, here, hebm is talking to infant Christians, immature, who need a kick in the butt ... "Come on ... move along ... I gave you milk, yet you are still squabbling, jealous and arguing". So he is rebuking them to stop being fleshly.
But this does not mean that they _ at Jesus time of return _ will be left behind.

The rapture consists of all Christians no matter where they are in their walk - could be someone saved the day before.

Those left behind have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit/ born again. Obviously they are carnal but they are not Christians yet.

Ok. Baptised, filled and sealed with the Spirit guaranteeing our inheritance. Cool!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus was preparing His followers to be ready for His return way back then. Those who carried out His business while waiting for His return made it into the marriage feast. Those who didn't use what they were given and were not ready for His return found themselves outside where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Some will enter while others won't. Some will be taken up others won't. Some will enter the ark and be saved from the flood, others won't be saved.

All these were spoken by Jesus at the same event Matthew 24 & 25. Then at the beginning of 26 it was recorded,
Mat 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples.

It's about some being saved by their Saviour/Groom, while the rest are not saved by Him.

Nope. Extremely off my friend.
Like I said.
The parable is worthy vs unworthy.
By incorrectly making the foolish virgins unbelievers, You actually change God's word.

Maybe you are unaware of the 2 kinds of believers Paul illustrated?
Carnal vs spiritual?( wise vs foolish)

Or maybe have no knowledge of rewards and privileges of the spiritual believers.?
Both of the escape verses are BY JESUS.
BOTH ARE TO BELIEVERS.
BOTH ARE conditional.
In one of the escape verses Jesus speaks of THE remedy. ( TO BUY. HE TELLS BELIEVERS TO BUY) Ahem...same remedy in the virgin parable.
But with a "twist". The wise COUD HAVE IMPARTED oil ( the Holy Spirit) to them. That option existed. The problem was the timing.
By reframing that dynamic, you miss the parable.
Most of God's promises are TO HIS PEOPLE.
most of God's promises ARE CONDITIONAL.
Further, the rewards in heaven are ALSO NOT a salvation issue.
They are in fact "worthy vs unworthy "

....as in the parable.

 

[rebuilder 454]

All Christians have experienced this battle with our flesh. When we are infants, we might cling to old habits, fo us on the fleshly things. When we become more mature, then we say no to those ways.
Since there is this spiritual growth going on with this battle between flesh and spirit. Paul even had it. He did things he did not want to do.
"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” Rom. 8:56
So we start out totally carnal, then change. The Holy Spirit sanctified us. When we are born again, we become New Creatures and He Seals our salvation, regardless whether we are infants or mature. Jesus is the AUTHOR of our faith - He prepares us, equips us, He writes our story and finishes it! We are just strongly encouraged to cooperate with His plan, but we don't earn salvation - He paid the price. Once saved, we are to be obedient.
"And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people." 1 Cor. 3:1-3

So, here, he is talking to infant Christians, immature, who need a kick in the butt ... "Come on ... move along ... I gave you milk, yet you are still squabbling, jealous and arguing". So he is rebuking them to stop being fleshly.
But this does not mean that they _ at Jesus time of return _ will be left behind.

The rapture consists of all Christians no matter where they are in their walk - could be someone saved the day before.

Those left behind have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit/ born again. Obviously they are carnal but they are not Christians yet.

Read the 7 letters to the seven churches.
Then understand spiritual vs carnal.

You are trying to turn it into " newborn vs mature"

That is another dynamic.

Galatians say "walk in the spirit, and you will not fulfill the last of the flesh"

In the book of acts both newborn and mature recieved the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Paul said to mature saints " like newborn babies, desire the pure milk of the word.

Whether newborn or mature, one can walk in the spirit, or walk carnal.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Read the 7 letters to the seven churches.
Then understand spiritual vs carnal.

You are trying to turn it into " newborn vs mature"

That is another dynamic.

Galatians say "walk in the spirit, and you will not fulfill the last of the flesh"

In the book of acts both newborn and mature recieved the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Paul said to mature saints " like newborn babies, desire the pure milk of the word.

Whether newborn or mature, one can walk in the spirit, or walk carnal.

Absolutely agree. My point was to refute the idea that apparent carnal Christians will be left behind. I don't think you can label a true Christian as totally carnal. We all have moments of failure, backsliding and in the beginning of our walk we are ignorant to much of the Biblical truths. A born again Christian is in Christ - he's going whether immature or not.

 

[One 2 question]

Nope. Extremely off my friend.
Like I said.
The parable is worthy vs unworthy.
By incorrectly making the foolish virgins unbelievers, You actually change God's word.

Maybe you are unaware of the 2 kinds of believers Paul illustrated?
Carnal vs spiritual?( wise vs foolish)

Or maybe have no knowledge of rewards and privileges of the spiritual believers.?
Both of the escape verses are BY JESUS.
BOTH ARE TO BELIEVERS.
BOTH ARE conditional.
In one of the escape verses Jesus speaks of THE remedy. ( TO BUY. HE TELLS BELIEVERS TO BUY) Ahem...same remedy in the virgin parable.
But with a "twist". The wise COUD HAVE IMPARTED oil ( the Holy Spirit) to them. That option existed. The problem was the timing.
By reframing that dynamic, you miss the parable.
Most of God's promises are TO HIS PEOPLE.
most of God's promises ARE CONDITIONAL.
Further, the rewards in heaven are ALSO NOT a salvation issue.
They are in fact "worthy vs unworthy "

....as in the parable.

So are you interpreting this parable in such a way that it could be like as Paul said of the Jews, some natural branches were cut off because of unbelief while some continued to abide in the Vine? That in the end when the cut off natural branches are grafted back in then all Israel will be saved??

So eventually the 5 foolish virgins will enter so all 10 will be with the Groom???

 

[One 2 question]

Absolutely agree. My point was to refute the idea that apparent carnal Christians will be left behind. I don't think you can label a true Christian as totally carnal. We all have moments of failure, backsliding and in the beginning of our walk we are ignorant to much of the Biblical truths. A born again Christian is in Christ - he's going whether immature or not.

So are you saying the 5 foolish virgins are like those Paul rebuked who having started in the Spirit had gone back to the flesh and law which couldn't bring life.

Therefore like running out of oil had to go back to the Spirit before returning to Jesus to find they were too late and missed out from entering and being married to the Groom?

Gal 3:2&3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So are you saying the 5 foolish virgins are like those Paul rebuked who having started in the Spirit had gone back to the flesh and law which couldn't bring life.

No, never said or implied that. The oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, whom they did not have. Thus would be likened to the Jews who have been waiting for their Messiah, but did not believe in Jesus, so did not receive the Holy Spirit. When He came they were left behind.
Gal. 3:2-3 was a rebuke from Paul ... immature Christians. A sober question like that is a jolt that we need, reminder if we backslide.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Absolutely agree. My point was to refute the idea that apparent carnal Christians will be left behind. I don't think you can label a true Christian as totally carnal. We all have moments of failure, backsliding and in the beginning of our walk we are ignorant to much of the Biblical truths. A born again Christian is in Christ - he's going whether immature or not.

Again, you are transposing mature and babies onto carnal vs spiritual.

A babe in christ is NOT MATURE.
Many,many, many, babies in Christ are on fire for God and not walking carnal. They are part of the bride.

Jesus said before the flood one will be taken and the other one left. You may want to just take a moment and ask yourself what is that group of one taken one left. We can eliminate Earth's population as wicked taken and righteous left. We can eliminate Earth's population of righteous taken and wicked left. We can totally eliminate both of those because there's no way half of Earth's population is saved and half of Earth's population is righteous. So what group is that that one is taken and one is left before the flood as Jesus said?

 

[rebuilder 454]

So are you saying the 5 foolish virgins are like those Paul rebuked who having started in the Spirit had gone back to the flesh and law which couldn't bring life.

Therefore like running out of oil had to go back to the Spirit before returning to Jesus to find they were too late and missed out from entering and being married to the Groom?

Gal 3:2&3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

It is mind boggling that so many believers here have no clue what walking in the Spirit is.
....and no idea what Jesus command was to those BELIEVERS who LOST THEIR FIRST LOVE.

I Am seeing a huge group of believers that, not only are not intimate with Jesus, but have no clue what intimacy is.

A good starting place would be song of songs.

Now I see WHY any conversation concerning the bride taken and ,carnal rebellious believers , as is declared in the Bible, is just sentences wasted.

It is going to be TRANSPOSED into saved vs unsaved every time.

I don't think the verses stating the partial church raptured will ever enter into the mix here in this board.

Just plain bizarre.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Again, you are transposing mature and babies onto carnal vs spiritual.

A babe in christ is NOT MATURE.
Many,many, many, babies in Christ are on fire for God and not walking carnal. They are part of the bride.

No, infants may be on fire, but they are still immature. Not saying they are all carnal. But we all still have the flesh. We are to render it dead. We mortify it, say no to our old ways, but still we stumble. I have come a long way in 33 years, but sometimes I choose to be selfish, when I have an opportunity to love. Are we going to be the Good Samaritan all the time, stopping to help every homeless person out? I lived in Los Angeles country forn49 years with 40k homeless ... I think not. I we justify are decisions don't we. "They will just buy drugs with it" ... "Look at him he has clean clothes in, he's not homeless, just doesn't want to work" ... Or how about the one's who use other people's children to beg for money? or at the end of their cardboard message, exploit God, as a manipulative tool to get money. We can certainly make excuses not to give ... They are irresponsible, screwed their own lives and now are paying for or it". Yet the Bible says, "But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing". Matt. 6:3 We aren't supposed to analyze the situation..Again, there is so many, so I used to give to the Los Angeles Mission, that settled it for me.

. So what group is that that one is taken and one is left before the flood as Jesus said?

I had already discussed this, that Matthew was directed at Jewish Christians. Where is Jesus when He returns? Jerusalem. The Sabbath is mentioned - who celebrates that? The Jews. Who is waiting for their Messiah ( the Groom), who expects Him to come? The Jews. Non- Christians of other faiths aren't waiting for the Messiah. They aren't going to say, "Lord, Lord, did not we prophesy in your name and cast out demons ..." The Gentiles do not do that, nor Buddhists, Hindus or Muslims. They worship other gods and they do not cast out demons.

 

[marks]

In the parable of the 10 virgins we notice 5 are called wise and 5 are called foolish.

This parable is easy to understand.

Jesus told us what it means.

Matthew 25:13 KJV
13) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

You have to be ready before He comes. That's it, that's the meaning.

Much love!

 

[MA2444]

Yes I sorta agree with that.
In the parable of the virgins the oil is one component of the parable. But that component has several parts. All the virgins had oil .

every one of them had it ,but the wise took extra oil.
so the only thing separating the wise and the foolish was the extra oil that was procured and in their possession.
Another component of the oil is that it could be imparted one virgin to another.
We see this Dynamic of the Holy Spirit In the book of Acts almost every single instance where I believe hed received the baptism of the Holy Spirit ,was through the laying on of hands.
So it was imparted one believer to another. I'm not saying that's the only way a person can get it as far as the baptism of the Holy spirit, but that is the way it happens probably 95% of the time.
Now the next dynamic of the oil component in the parable is that the only reason, and I do mean the only reason, that they did not impart their oil to the foolish was because of the timetable.
if they gave them their oil, then they wouldn't have enough for themselves.
And that's what they told them, "we will not have enough for ourselves".
So they said go to them that sell and get you some.
Now evidently they did just that, but again it was too late, they messed up on their timetable. They just flat out we're not ready, and there's no point in Jesus telling us to be ready, and we ignore it, and then we call for a timeout and say "I'm going to go get ready now", when he's there to pick up his church, and he says," no I gave you warning, I told you to be ready and you aren't ready"... so it will be a sad day for carnal nominal Christians when the Rapture happens.
And those postribbers that deny the Bible and direct words of Jesus.
Jesus told his people" pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of man".
Well now look at that.

that's exactly the parable of the ten virgins in a nutshell.

that parable is concerning worthiness verses unworthiness.

you can be ready and you can fill your lamp and fill it to overflowing with extra oil, or you can deal with the Antichrist and be left behind the choice is yours

So you think the oil is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That actually could very well be! Many Believers are Baptised in the Holy Spirit and many are not! That definitely fits.

And Jesus is the one that Baptises people in the Holy Spirit, scripture says so. It goes, servant, friend, Son, Bride. We approach Jesus to be a servant and give our lives to Him. Then we have faith in Him and obey Him and become His friend, We start being led by the Spirit of God and become Sons (Romans 8:14). But that is as far we can decide to go, for to become a Bride of Christ (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) is decided by Jesus Himself.

You're going to look good in a Wedding Dress, Brother!

 

[marks]

So you think the oil is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That actually could very well be! Many Believers are Baptised in the Holy Spirit and many are not! That definitely fits.

And Jesus is the one that Baptises people in the Holy Spirit, scripture says so. It goes, servant, friend, Son, Bride. We approach Jesus to be a servant and give our lives to Him. Then we have faith in Him and obey Him and become His friend, We start being led by the Spirit of God and become Sons (Romans 8:14). But that is as far we can decide to go, for to become a Bride of Christ (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) is decided by Jesus Himself.

You're going to look good in a Wedding Dress, Brother!

Remember . . . He spoke this parable to the Jews, so first look for understanding in that context.

Much love!

 

[rebuilder 454]

So you think the oil is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That actually could very well be! Many Believers are Baptised in the Holy Spirit and many are not! That definitely fits.

And Jesus is the one that Baptises people in the Holy Spirit, scripture says so. It goes, servant, friend, Son, Bride. We approach Jesus to be a servant and give our lives to Him. Then we have faith in Him and obey Him and become His friend, We start being led by the Spirit of God and become Sons (Romans 8:14). But that is as far we can decide to go, for to become a Bride of Christ (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) is decided by Jesus Himself.

You're going to look good in a Wedding Dress, Brother!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Remember . . . He spoke this parable to the Jews, so first look for understanding in that context.

Much love!

So Hebrews is only to jews?