the 144,000

[Phi Run Ltd]

They are Humans who have mastered the teachings of Christ; that is why they're called 'first fruits'.

They are referred to as 'virgins' because they are not part of any ruling regime, nor are they part of a hive.

They rise (together) after He rises.

Obviously.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

so, it is logical to surmise that those holding positions of power now are not from Christ.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

it should also be noted that there were more than 600,000 in the tribes of israel (thosands of years ago), but revelation says only 12,000 from each tribe are chosen - and the tribe of Dan is completely replaced.

(Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven.)

This obviously means that the majority fail to be 'first fruits'.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

This obviously means that the majority fail to be 'first fruits'.

so the question you have to ask is yourself is, do you believe and do what 'most' people believe and do?

 

[Born_Again]

This thread will get a lot of attention. Before it takes off running, I am moving it to the Eschatology forum...

 

[tom55]

[SIZE=11pt]In Revelation 7 and 14, we are told about a group of 144,000 people that will always be with the Lamb. If taken literally they would be only Jewish male virgins. This would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Jehovah’s Witnesses founder Charles Taze Russel (not a Jew) would not be in heaven.

The book also shows 24 elders that surround the throne of God (Rv 4:4). This brings the grand total to 144,024. This number is increased dramatically by Revelation 7:9, which states there is a countless multitude before the throne. The number 144,000 is likely only a symbolic reference to the New Israel arrived at by squaring the number of the 12 tribes of Israel and multiplying by 1000.[/SIZE]

 

[keras]

They are Humans who have mastered the teachings of Christ; that is why they're called 'first fruits'.

They are referred to as 'virgins' because they are not part of any ruling regime, nor are they part of a hive.

They rise (together) after He rises.

Obviously.

Your reason for bringing up this subject seems be that the present Established Church is not the true Church of God.
Be that as it may be, what you need to understand is God's reason for selecting the 144k.

They are to be selected by Jesus, Rev 14:1-5, from out of the vast multitude described in Rev 7:9 & 14. Who are all the true Christians of the world, gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the terrible Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10 + many other prophesies about God's plan for His people.

It is the 144k who will go out in pairs, to proclaim the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. As the 72 did before; Luke 10:1-10. The allegory of the angel in Rev 14:6-7 is just that. An angel flying about shouting, would just frighten people! The Gospel will be declared to the nations by those whom God puts His sign on. Proved by Isaiah 66:18b-21

 

[FHII]

In Revelation 7 and 14, we are told about a group of 144,000 people that will always be with the Lamb. If taken literally they would be only Jewish male virgins. This would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Jehovah’s Witnesses founder Charles Taze Russel (not a Jew) would not be in heaven.

The book also shows 24 elders that surround the throne of God (Rv 4:4). This brings the grand total to 144,024. This number is increased dramatically by Revelation 7:9, which states there is a countless multitude before the throne. The number 144,000 is likely only a symbolic reference to the New Israel arrived at by squaring the number of the 12 tribes of Israel and multiplying by 1000.

Rev 7:5-8 states it was 12000 from each tribe of Israel. The 24 elders, i believe (and i am not prepared to defend this belief) are the 12 Apostles and 12 Patriarchs. They would not be included in the 144K.

Have a look at verse 9 of that chapter. It speaks of a multitude that are washed.... These are those who are Christians.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

for the record, i never said 144k - i said 144,000 :)

and i'm very certain the 24 elders are not the apostles or the patriarchs. (the elders are in Heaven, and the apostles and patriarchs aren't)..

nonetheless, i find it interesting that y'all are worried about the 'who' rather than the 'what' (those who have mastered the teachings of Christ).

and...to the guy who said an angel would scare people....

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO DETERMINE WHAT AN ANGEL CAN OR CAN'T DO?

i'm very certain that isn't your 'job'.

it doesn't say anything about 144,000 going out in 'pairs'.

anyway - a warning, for anyone else who wants to change numbers, roles etc.....

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

enjoy :)

and, none of you know the reason for me making this thread.....obviously.

 

[tom55]

for the record, i never said 144k - i said 144,000 :)

and i'm very certain the 24 elders are not the apostles or the patriarchs. (the elders are in Heaven, and the apostles and patriarchs aren't)..

nonetheless, i find it interesting that y'all are worried about the 'who' rather than the 'what' (those who have mastered the teachings of Christ).

and a question.....to the guy who said an angel would scare people....

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO DETERMINE WHAT AN ANGEL CAN OR CAN'T DO?

i'm very certain that isn't your 'job'.

also, for those who use their strange math to change numbers......

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

and, none of you know the reason for me making this thread.....obviously.

I don't know the reason because your post, in my opinion, is cryptic.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

all right, how about less 'cryptic' then.....

if your desire is to be part of the 144,000 first fruits you must first master the teachings of Christ.

teachings like this:

And if your eye should cause you to sin, cast it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into hell...because blessed are those who have not seen, yet believed.

and because:

“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

 

[keras]

144k is an abbreviation of 144,000.

Their going out in pairs is the way missionaries operate, as shown in Luke 10:1-10. And that is their task, proved by Isaiah 66:19. Saying it is an angel who proclaims the coming Kingdom, contradicts the Isaiah prophecy. Also, as we see from Revelation, most people won't believe the message anyway, so it must be people who do it, because if it was a mighty angel shouting, they would have no choice but to believe it.

You seem to have an agenda to promote, just be clear about it and we can discuss it rationally, without threats of doom for adding to scripture or being beaten, as you like to throw about.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

so your opinion is that the 144,000 are missionaries - going house to house like mormons or something?

where in Luke does it say anything about the 72 being missionaries? do you know who the 72 are and what they do?

and what you refer to as threats of doom for adding to scripture and being beaten were given by Christ and are not threats; they are fact. Do you have a problem with that?

Do you know why that warning is there, in revelation?

you're the guy who has a thread on here about a cme destroying the earth....how's that working out for you?

and, i specify 144,000 for personal reasons.

and, i know for a fact that what you refer to as "the present 'established church'" is not the true church of Christ. but telling people about that isn't my 'agenda'.

 

[Deborah_]

The very first (and therefore the most important thing?) that we are told about the 144,000 is that they have been sealed.
What is God's seal of ownership? The Holy Spirit (II Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13), given to all genuine Christians.
So the 144,000 are Christians - nothing more, nothing less.

God has taken a census of His people - just as He did when the Israelites were redeemed from Egypt. The number is obviously symbolic, as are the names of the tribes (Joseph and Manasseh don't belong together!). This is to reassure us that all of us will make it into His kingdom ​(Revelation 14:1).

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

so your opinion is that anyone who calls himself a christian goes to His Kingdom?

that obviously contradicts Christ Himself:

For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many.....the guy who calls himself "brent w" probably knows much about that deception.
and
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
and
'bees die in fires' - (i said that)

 

[ezekiel]

They are Humans who have mastered the teachings of Christ; that is why they're called 'first fruits'.

They are referred to as 'virgins' because they are not part of any ruling regime, nor are they part of a hive.

They rise (together) after He rises.

Obviously.

We are all tied together (100) We are the sons of God, He is our Father (40) We are teachers of Gods words (4000). 144000

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

that's a peculiar opinion, because i'm not tied to any of you.

 

[Deborah_]

so your opinion is that anyone who calls himself a christian goes to His Kingdom?

that obviously contradicts Christ Himself:

For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many.....the guy who calls himself "brent w" probably knows much about that deception.
and
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

But that's not what I said, is it?

The Holy Spirit is not given to those who merely claim to be Christians.

 

[Phi Run Ltd]

i noticed you omitted 'bees die in fires' from what i said. Why?

(bees die in fires)

 

[ezekiel]

that's a peculiar opinion, because i'm not tied to any of you.

What do you think the song is that they sing as if it was a new song.