Suffering

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, I believe suffering is evil. But there's little we can do about it.
If everyone belonged to the Kingdom of God here on earth, we'd have only natural evil to deal with (sickness, drought, etc.)
As it is, we also have the other 2 problems causing evil...ourselves and others.


It's OK if you want to understand Hebrews 2:14 in the way you've stated.
We need to do all those physical things you mentioned...just as Jesus did.
He became one of us and also needed to do these things.

I like the NLT to understand this verse better...
Hebrews 2:14
14Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death.

You could be right about suffering being evil. I was only considering God being long-suffering. A few verses that come to mind that seem to say there is different “suffering”…suffering for evil doing and suffering for doing good? As in 1 Peter 3:17-18 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

And 1 Peter 4:14-16 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. [15] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. [16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

God is long-suffering in doing good, always patient. So maybe you are right that suffering is evil. What is the difference in suffering for evil going and suffering for doing well?
Philippians 4:13-14 i can do all things through Christ which strengthens me. [14] Notwithstanding you have well done, that you did communicate with my affliction.

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[amadeus]

Of suffering, I might raise the question: Is suffering necessary, or is it the "price" we pay for our sin? In other words, had I beaten the odds and lived a sinless life up to this point, would I suffer at all? I know Jesus lived a sinless life and was crucified, but he was a special case.

I would say the answer to your essential question is, yes, even though no one else but Jesus has done it. Before Jesus, the possibility of living a sinless life without suffering was there only for Adam and Eve prior to their disobedience. Because of Jesus, the Way has been reopened, but who is prepared to go in...?

"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:11-14

 

[TLHKAJ]

You say it's not taught in scripture, but Jesus said, "Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Doesn't that suggest if we repent of our sin, our suffering will disappear (now)?

He never said that. You'd have to edit and revise and add to the scripture to get it to say that.

 

[Bob Estey]

He never said that. You'd have to edit and revise and add to the scripture to get it to say that.

He never said that? I was quoting my Bible: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

 

[TLHKAJ]

He never said that? I was quoting my Bible: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Exactly ....you can't add, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. And you will never face suffering."

 

[Lambano]

The Kingdom of God is both "Now" and "Not Yet". We are loyal to the King and citizens of His kingdom NOW. In this world, we will have trouble, but be of good cheer, for our Christ has overcome the world. However, the final consummation of the Kingdom must wait until Jesus comes back. Then there will be no more suffering, no more sickness, no more sorrow, no more sin, and no more death. That is the NOT YET aspect of the Kingdom.

 

[Bob Estey]

Exactly ....you can't add, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. And you will never face suffering."

I added nothing. But I am allowed to wonder what happens if we repent, aren't I? I would suggest the only way to find out is to repent.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I added nothing. But I am allowed to wonder what happens if we repent, aren't I? I would suggest the only way to find out is to repent.

Repentance is something we do out of a heart that has responded to His grace. After that, we live for Him to the best of our ability, out of a place of love and gratitude. If we suffer (and scripture says we will) then we suffer with Christ, as followers of His.

2 Timothy 3:12
[12]Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

If we are serving Him looking for an easy ride, we've missed our purpose. We are here to give all to Him no matter the cost.

 

[TLHKAJ]

In context.....

2 Timothy 3:10-12
[10]But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
[11]Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
[12]Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Notice that Paul said he suffered persecutions and afflictions. He also said, "out of them all the Lord delivered me." He did not say "from them all" ...he said "out of them all." He suffered, and yet God brought him through his sufferings. He wasn't delivered from having to suffer.

Psalm 34:19
[19]Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

If our goal is to avoid suffering for the name of Christ, we will end up denying Him. Count the cost. Is He worth suffering for?

2 Timothy 2:3-13
[3]Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
[4]No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
[5]And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
[6]The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
[7]Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
[8]Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
[9]Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
[10]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
[11]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Luke 14:27-30
[27]And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
[28]For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
[29]Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[30]Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

 

[Bob Estey]

Repentance is something we do out of a heart that has responded to His grace. After that, we live for Him to the best of our ability, out of a place of love and gratitude. If we suffer (and scripture says we will) then we suffer with Christ, as followers of His.

2 Timothy 3:12
[12]Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

If we are serving Him looking for an easy ride, we've missed our purpose. We are here to give all to Him no matter the cost.

Repentance means we stop sinning. People who like sin might disagree with that.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Repentance means we stop sinning. People who like sin might disagree with that.

I agree. But repentance doesn't mean we won't suffer.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Matthew 24:9-15
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

 

[Lambano]

Repentance means we stop sinning.

No, that's not what it means. The Hebrew term for repentance schwub means to turn around or return. It's a turn towards God. The Greek term metanoia indicates a change of mind or a change of heart. As long as we live this life in the flesh, we will sin.

 

[Mayflower]

Repentance means we stop sinning. People who like sin might disagree with that.

Repentance means transformation rather then temporary change. Change of mind. Inward permanent change. Inward change has to happen so that no matter what happens on the outside, be it suffering or whatever, sin won't be part of it. Every day Christians are being persecuted for their faith. It is evil done to them. Not their own sin. In a sinless/perfect world suffering wouldn't happen. But someone can have a heart of gold and suffer at the hands of another.

We also torment ourselves. Suffering comes from within. For this kind transformation has to happen.

 

[Mayflower]

1 Peter 4:1 1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin.

1 Peter 5:10 10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.

2 Corinthians 5:17 17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

James 1:12 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

John 16:33 33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

 

[TLHKAJ]

No, that's not what it means. The Hebrew term for repentance schwub means to turn around or return. It's a turn towards God. The Greek term metanoia indicates a change of mind or a change of heart. As long as we live this life in the flesh, we will sin.

Thank you for adding clarification. This adds more understanding. Even Paul spoke of the struggle, the war within his members between good and evil.

Romans 7:14-25
[14]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[15]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[18]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[20]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[21]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[22]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[23]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[24]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[25]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

1 John 2:1
[1]My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Bob Estey]

I agree. But repentance doesn't mean we won't suffer.

No, but I wonder if we'd suffer if we'd never sinned.

 

[Bob Estey]

No, that's not what it means. The Hebrew term for repentance schwub means to turn around or return. It's a turn towards God. The Greek term metanoia indicates a change of mind or a change of heart. As long as we live this life in the flesh, we will sin.

Technically, "repent" might mean "change," so you can repent of good behavior into bad, or bad behavior into good. I believe when the Lord commanded us to repent, he was telling us to change from bad to good.

 

[Bob Estey]

Repentance means transformation rather then temporary change. Change of mind. Inward permanent change. Inward change has to happen so that no matter what happens on the outside, be it suffering or whatever, sin won't be part of it. Every day Christians are being persecuted for their faith. It is evil done to them. Not their own sin. In a sinless/perfect world suffering wouldn't happen. But someone can have a heart of gold and suffer at the hands of another.

We also torment ourselves. Suffering comes from within. For this kind transformation has to happen.

Repentance means: Stop sinning.

 

[Mantis]

Our God is heavy. He uses suffering to refine us. He didn't say it would be easy and if I knew how much I would suffer I would have had second thoughts about all of this. But as he says: "For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen."