ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, "we" Hebrews. And yet he himself being a convert is not why he was writing to his countrymen. On the contrary, if they were all converts, he would not have warned them, but would have congratulated them.
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Surprisingly convenient that you added your comments here Scott, as a peace-maker...thanks:)
No, I do not think that both @Behold and I are correct in the final weigh-in and analysis. I say this with very extreme prejudice with the backing of scripture and the Spirit of God within my heart. I live being saved every moment of every day, because I accepted the holy grace: the gift of faith and walked across it to my holy God, who binds me and seals me to my lord and Savior, who is also my brother of the word of God, sourced and authored by my Father.
;)One preaches from a completely 'free' human will position, that is naturally biased to perform evil and its ways are alien and foolish to God's ways. This non-scriptural theory stems from the carnal heart, spirit and mind that cannot know God let alone his Messiah and his purpose, from and inside this heart. Then to make a clear dominant decision to get saved, in essence, is quite remarkable, astonishing and quite impossible. If one has actually followed this method of self salvation, and believes in it, then they are deceived and are not being saved of God at all! Pray for God's intervention into your heart and into a saving life.
And the other believes that the God of the Universe, in his own timing and place of choosing manipulates and opens up our heart to him, to search for him, to feel a need for him and to experience his love and mercy as even an obsession, whether one is 8 years of age or 98 years of age.
Then at that appointed time and place to bring His gift of saving faith, as a 'faith bridge' to span across the divide between carnality of fallen man of the sinner, and the holiness of God on the other side, to a new rebirth in our heart, spirit and mind.
So the only real pivotal decision we make for salvation is at the pivotal moment after God has caused our heart and so-called free will to yield to his will. And then if we did, we sincerely, and contritely, acknowledge we have yielded our will and heart to him, and we make it known to God openly, with our confession of sin and the wretched and irreparable state we are in without his presence in our life. To believe in his Son as the sacrificial lamb and atonement for our sin nature. And then in so doing: saying and believing all these things from the heart, we are accepting His gesture and the gift of bridging faith, as we then walk across it in mind heart and spirit. We shall now at some immediate or future point in time know we are being genuinely saved and we cry 'Abba' our Father. Amen
Those who have experienced this type of genuine leap or walk of initial faith across this divide is their start of the holy sanctifying journey on the narrow path of Being saved. Then they are indeed saved and will continue to believe and continue to have faith until they die. These are indeed called, chosen and accepted as the adopted children of God as a brother of Yahshua our Lord and raison d'etre. Amen
Of course, if God attempted to change our heart and yield our will to no avail, and so we declined his invitation into our heart, and his offer of his grace became ineffective, then He will depart, and we are lost in our sins ready to be destroyed in the 2nd death that awaits us.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, for those who are in Christ Jesus, not for those who are not in Christ because they stopped believing.
"6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmlyc to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6
Why would the author tell us to continue in a hope that signifies not being saved? Wouldn't he rather tell us to NOT continue in that hope if that hope meant you have not yet attained salvation?
But confession is salvation:
"9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9-10
Which just leads us to the fundamental question that determines if OSAS is true or not: Can the genuine believer stop believing? That is the one point to settle to know if OSAS is true or not. The Bible does not address this directly. It just tells us to not stop believing. Does that mean we can stop believing, or does it mean the warning will always be sufficient to keep the truly saved person always believing?
The reason you believe you can lose your Salvation, is because you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved.
So, try to be honest, next time.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
If a genuine Christian is deceived and becomes a heretic, has he lost his salvation?
No.
Why?
Because you can't lose Salvation.
Salvation is not of you or me......its of God who GIVES IT TO US, as "the Gift of Salvation".
So, this isnt a tattoo, or a chain you wear around your neck, or a cookie or juice you take in a building that has statues all over the walls.
SALVATION.... a Spiritual restoration, whereby the BELIEVER< has been Accepted by God, only based on what Christ has accomplished on the Cross as SALVATION.
He is Salvation.
Christ is Salvation.
If we have Him in us, its because we have Salvation, and He is not going anywhere, and we are going where He is, and have, as we exist "In Christ", if we are born again, and not just water baptized.
Believers, the born again are already...>>"seated in Heavenly places"..."in Christ".
Ferris Bueller, playing hooky evidently paid off for you. You speak my language in this Post. Great key questions, and very insightful.
Genuine believers cannot stop believing! And having rough patches or not in life has zero to do with this constant belief. I'm a witness to this experience, and it's an experience that is rewarding when we engage our Creator as we keep getting older and maturing. It's a love affair indeed. When I was younger in the lord, this joyous experience came in spurts with cyclical highs and lows. After my house was much more in order through a thorough cleaning so to speak, things became smoother, more peaceful, as my heart, as today was every changing to the image of type of Christ. Now I still do have my ego to content with at times, and with other people and my spouse. So what else is new? I do see, and with eagerness and joy and much much hope, the light or purpose of my spiritual life as being in Christ, as it is becoming more clearer as I age, day by day, week by week. Thanks for you input. I believe we are in the minority here.
You are a hyper calvinist, who denied it, and then later proved it.
Did you want to lie about that again?
If you are born again, you are "in Christ".
IF you're not, then worry about keeping your salvation, instead of knowing that Christ keeps you saved.
See it yet?
Keep looking till you do, Ferris Bueller., as thats on you.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
121
Nonsense!
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:27-28)
You therefore do greatly err!
Nonsense!
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:27-28)
You therefore do greatly err!
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
So a heretic who once believed Jesus can keep him saved but now believes he is saved by his works, is still saved. So why did you start this thread again?
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Absolute heresy!
“A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” (Titus 3:10-11)
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
I see this op got some likes. I do not like it. You will live eternally if you have received Gods Spirit. That’s settled.
But in a great house there are both vessels of honor and dishonor. This is to say, there are good pieces of China that are displayed in the China cabinet and there are also bedchamber pots that you keep hidden. You do not put them in the China cabinet on display to anyone who passes by. So, saved to WHAT becomes the question for us. Paul understood that it was possible to be disqualified in the race in the end. What does disqualified from the race mean? It doesn’t mean to not live eternally if you received the down payment of the Spirit. That’s settled. So while I can’t find, in what Paul was saying, exactly what disqualified means, I CAN read at least one thing that he knew could disqualify him.
This also goes with saved, but as if through fire, every possession burned up, a pauper.
If you saw a man living on a park bench because all he owned was lost in a fire and he was hollering, I will live forever! I will live forever! you would pity him, as living forever without basic necessities wouldn’t be the greatest thing.
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Keep beating your drum set all you want and play the tunes that comfort you as you keep mislabeling and slamming others out of ignorance because you really do not understand them. They, as I, are trying to convey to you gems of information from their heart for your benefit not theirs.
The real question for you, as for others is this, are you a genuine and believing adopted child of God? One who really knows you are his, being saved from yesterday, today and into tomorrow, and that you did not devise your own salvation, independent of God's overwhelming influence to bring you to your knees to his love and rescue?
I can, with 100 percent surety!
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You lied on my Thread., willfully, knowingly.
Have you gone back and edited it out yet, Mr Hyper Calvinist?
I would not look for Scott to come in and try to rescue you again from yourself.
That bridge is burned, im pretty certain.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Again you make a great presentation of the issue.
However, that issue comes from parsing "belief" with what can only be defined as doubt. It is only with actually "knowing" that there is no doubt. So, then, salvation does not come between believing and believing, but only between believing and knowing.
This is why it is written, "many are called but few are chosen."
why are you quoting a verse that is written to the Church at Galatia to try to prove that Unsaved Hebrews in Hebrews Chapter 10, are born again?
The walk of discipleship is the "course i have completed"....>Paul said i finished MY Course".
See the "MY"?
Well, Salvation is not that......as that is PAUL's to do., after He was saved.
So, Salvation is GODs to provide, and for you to receive, not when you were good, but when you are a hell bound sinner. "ungodly".
As that is what qualifies you to BE SAVED...
"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS".....so, that isn't the good person or the clean vessel., as there ARE NONE.
Righteousness has to be PROVIDED, as you dont have any, and that is why you were not going to be allowed to go to Heaven, where only the RIGHTEOUS can exist.
God had to come here, as Christ, and proved you, the SINNER, with His righteousness, so that by having it = BORN AGAIN= you are allowed to end up with God after you die.
welcome to : SALVATION.
Many are called. = John 3:16, and Jesus who said.>"if i be lifted up on the Cross, i will draw ALL men to me"......So, there is the Many are called.
The few that are chosen, are...>"the work of God is that you believe on Jesus, whom God sent".
If you do that, then your Faith, is Accepted by God, = "you are chosen".
