Is it all so black and white? But [there it is again[...I am not arguing.
Speak to the value of following Jesus
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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I also have not believed that the Holy Spirit is a person, but I am not and never have been a Unitarian.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Jesus does not answer anyone’s prayers….the prayer is offered to the Father only, “in Jesus name”….he is the appointed “mediator”…the “go between” who intercedes with the Father for us, as our High Priest…..
He has been appointed also as our judge….but never as one who answers prayers.
When we ask God for things, he is examining our motive….why are we asking for it? Jesus said that what we ask must be in accord with God’s will…..so if what we ask is not in accord with God’s will…the answer will be “NO”….or “not yet”.
We live in a world under Satan’s control, (1 John 5:19) so if God took away the consequences of living in such a strife ridden world, how would we ever learn to be like Job?
We need endurance and this is a quality that can only be achieved by enduring hardship and tragedy. God will not take away the consequences of Adam’s sin, and no one has the right to ask God to dodge them. What we need to ask for is the strength to endure whatever this satanic world throws at us.
If someone has a child, parent or friend who is terminally ill and prays for that person to be healed….what if the answer is “no” and the person dies? What does that do to someone’s faith?
I grow weary of those who ask constantly for prayers, as if these are some kind of lucky charm….it’s like asking the genie for a wish to be granted…….seriously??? Is that what Prayer is for?
What does the Lord’s Prayer teach us? Jesus teaches us what to pray for….in the order that we should give priority and that our basic needs be satisfied for that day only. Day to day is how we need to live this life.
Pray for strength to cope for yourself and others…..never pray to make the trial go away. It will end when it does, and your quality of endurance will be strengthened. (Matt 24:13)
Yes, Jesus prayed…..”Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.“….but he continued…..”34 So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles.”
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Why can't you accept the AND changes our material circumstances without arguing or undermining the word of the Lord?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
AJ, the folks who are overly spiritualized reject even that we should pray for our basic material needs be met.
The Lord teaches us to pray for our daily bread, a change in our material circumstance. Yes, it is daily but I don't want to confuse WHEN with WHAT. It's a little silly to argue that being resurrected is not a material change to our circumstances, isn't it?
Why do you take such a myopic view?
Obviously, Jesus is just as capable of changing our circumstances as He is of changing us.
2 Corinthians 3:18 NIV
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
Why do you take such a myopic view?
Your fixation on the word AND proves your near-nearsightedness.
Are you claiming that Jesus is incapable of changing a person DESPITE their circumstances?
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Why do you take such a myopic view?
LOL
Your fixation on the word AND proves your near-nearsightedness.
Are you claiming that Jesus is incapable of changing a person DESPITE their circumstances?
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are being obtuse and this will be my last post in this thread. The AND means he is willing, able and does materially change circumstances in addition to an internal transformation.
God knows the truth. Who among us knows rather than believes by faith what we do? God knows that as well... be it what you say or what I say or something else. Has He spoken to anyone's heart? Certainly, but who other than God is able to look into another man's heart?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Regarding prayer (whether for a change of circumstances or a change of self)...
Jesus told us to "ask, seek, knock". And in the end, the "asking" may be more important than the "getting".
Jesus told us to "ask, seek, knock". And in the end, the "asking" may be more important than the "getting".
Good point.
If we turn it over to God, we free ourselves of the worry.
We can then marvel at what He does in response.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Yes, I’ve at last done that now, in a situation.....I hadn’t fully given it over to God, I kept taking it back on board.
I don’t even think about it now, let alone take it on board..it has no affect on my life any more.....it’s all a part of learning isn’t it....Praise God.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
My thinking was that the relationship was more important than the outcomes.
I also have to say that "turning it over to God" does not absolve us from our own responsibilities in the situation. Let's not think that it does.
Agree.
I saw a bumper sticker that said:
IF JESUS IS YOUR COPILOT
You're in the wrong seat.
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This is a good question. What you described is what I refer to as the Wisdom of the Lord. This is opposed to the wisdom of the world.
The wisdom of the world, while logical from a primal and anmlimalistic point of view, will provide one with a degree of success in society.
The wisdom of the Lord depends on the Lord's providence. It does not focus on immediate gains, but encourages trust in the ways of God and for us to wait in faith for him to provide.
What is better? Well if you were looking back as someone from heaven I trust you would not be elated to have chosen the former over the latter. When we think long term, I mean really think long term. Hundreds and thousands of years. Greatness and , power won't mean anything when this world is destroyed.
Good post, thanks.
This bit reminded me of something I say from time to time.
Even if they blow the planet out from beneath your feet,
if you have Jesus, you have everything.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
For those who think prayer is just asking the genie to grant wishes, then they have a problem….it isn’t what God can do for us, but what we can do for God in a world ruled by the devil…..that is the real test of our mettle.
Prov 27:11…
”Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me.”
To behave in such a way that makes God’s heart rejoice, in replying to satan that we will not be moved away from the standards set by God’s son. We will not adopt satan’s standards under any circumstances.
We will not be found in immoral conduct, and we will not be found supporting this world’s corrupt politics or its politically motivated wars. (John 18:36; 1 Cor 6:9-11) Like Paul, we must be “clean from the blood of all men.” (Acts 20:26; Isa 1:15)
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
“Wants” and “needs” are two entirely different things, but the gap between them has become narrower with time. Compare our wants and needs only 50 years ago…..my dad passed away in 1968 and we didn’t even have color TV back then…no remote control, no internet or mobile phones. A new car was $2000!
Material wants and needs are harder to distinguish these days as young ones grow up not being able to tell the difference…..material pursuits are what the world seeks, but not Christ’s disciples.
Just before giving us the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus said…..Matt 6:7-8…
”7 When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. 8 So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him.”
God knows what you “need”……it’s the genie who asks you what you “want”….God is not a genie.
Material things are not what Jesus taught us to seek….in fact they can become a dangerous distraction.
1 Tim 6:6-10…
”To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. 8 So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things.
9 But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.”
We know what the love of money can do to a person….
Matt 6:27-32…. Speaking of worry about material things Jesus said….
”Who of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his life span? 28 Also, why are you anxious about clothing? Take a lesson from the lilies of the field, how they grow; they do not toil, nor do they spin; 29 but I tell you that not even Solʹo·mon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 Now if this is how God clothes the vegetation of the field that is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much rather clothe you, you with little faith? 31 So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to wear?’ 32 For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. Your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.”
It’s comforting to know what a “need” is, compared to a “want”.….and what it means to be “content” in a world where discontentment is promoted as a marketing ploy.
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