Speak to the value of following Jesus

[St. SteVen]

Typically evangelizing the "lost" focuses on why Christianity is true.
A convincing argument is hoped to win the day and produce a new convert.
Assuming all the concerns of the prospect can be dissuaded.

However, I was thinking this morning about the day-to-day benefits.
The positive effects of absorbing biblical teaching, as it relates to life.

- When we encounter an angry person. (a soft answer turns away wrath)
- In our interactions with others. (look to the interests of others)
- When lining up with others. (put the other person first)
- If someone else gets the promotion we had hoped for.
(humble yourself; you will be exalted in due time)

What other practical benefits can you think of?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When those outside the church hear us speaking about Christianity,
what negative images come to their mind?

[

 

[Wrangler]

What other practical benefits can you think of?

It is well with my soul. Following Jesus gives me peace internally that surpasses all understanding. Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I am protected, rested, strengthened, comforted and honored.

 

[Lambano]

Hope, in times of suffering?

 

[St. SteVen]

Hope, in times of suffering?

Right.
We are not a hopeless victim of circumstance.

In fact, we can look to God to change us, rather than change our circumstance.
A benefit the world cannot comprehend.

[

 

[Wrangler]

In fact, we can look to God to change us, rather than change our circumstance.

Not rather but AND change our circumstance is what we can look to God for.

Jesus did not pray the Apostles in the boat would be brave in the face of the storm that kills them. He stopped the storm, thereby changing their circumstances. As I see it, your post is indicative of the rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity, going against the vast majority of the Bible.

Elijah prayed for and was granted no rain. Prayed again after years and it rained. Samson prayed for and got his power back at the end. Jesus cured the sick, fed the hungry, gave sight to the blind, which changed their circumstances. In Acts 12 an Angel made a prison break for Peter, changing his circumstances. Deliver us from evil is a change in circumstance.

To answer the OP's question, Jesus answers prayers and said ask anything in my name and it will be granted. Why would we not ask and he not also grant a change to our circumstances?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
In fact, we can look to God to change us, rather than change our circumstance.

As I see it, your post is indicative of the rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity, going against the vast majority of the Bible. ... Why would we not ask and he not also grant a change to our circumstances?

Seriously?
As if God is in the business of saving us from our circumstances rather than transforming us to live above our circumstances.
What you would call the "rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity"?

[

 

[Wrangler]

As if God is in the business of saving us from our circumstances rather than transforming us to live above our circumstances.
What you would call the "rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity"?

Yes, I just did call that rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity. (It's odd that you fairly regularly ask a question I just answered ).

Our future resurrection IS a change in our circumstance. Changing our circumstances is what God's business is all about. And not just in the far away future but the here and now. However, he does this for his glory, not ours.

The Bible is filled with stories of evidence based faith. People's circumstances were miraculously changed and then more people believed. For some reason you think Jesus cured the sick, fed the hungry, gave sight to the blind as a distraction from his ministry. What you preach in this exchange directly contracts Jesus at Matthew 6:33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, AND all these things will be given to you as well.

Notice the AND? Yes, an internal transformation is a priority and prerequisite but does not limit or prevent God's material blessings to the faithful. Give us our daily bread is a material blessing that changes our circumstances. Jesus is not merely the son of God who took away the sins of the world by his sacrificial death. After that he was restored to life AND given all authority in heaven and Earth, honored to sit on the right hand of God. This is the way.

Those who are overly spiritualized stop before the AND, stop at seek first the kingdom. There is an AND to Christianity, to our great and wonderful God.

 

[Jack]

Following Jesus means not burning in Hell forever and ever with the Devil. ULTIMATE value!

 

[Ritajanice]

The heart needs changing....that’s the role of the Spirit...I do believe that we can make it harder on ourselves, that is, until we fully understand the “ self” and the will of “ self”.

God brought me to fully understand......not your “ will” miss RJ.....my “will” God’s will, be done!..

 

[St. SteVen]

For some reason you think Jesus cured the sick, fed the hungry, gave sight to the blind as a distraction from his ministry. What you preach in this exchange directly contracts Jesus

As if there aren't two aspects to this question.
I'm not campaigning AGAINST God's ability to change circumstances.

God is just as capable of transforming a life as he is of transforming a circumstance.
Yet you claim this "directly contracts Jesus..." ???

Jesus asked for the cross to be taken away. It was not.
And he requires us to take up our cross daily.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen ..what does over spiritualism mean?

How can anyone who is Born Again, not be spiritual?

Can you distinguish what’s Of the flesh and what’s Of the Spirit.....that imo takes time to distinguish..would you agree?

The two words take certain meaning when opposed in Scripture, for flesh represents all that is natural, earthly, and human, while spirit signifies all that is supernatural, heavenly, and divine.

Sorry, I meant discern....I don’t know where distinguish came from,LOL

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus asked for the cross to be taken away. It was not.

Just because some prayer for material change in circumstance are denied does not mean God never grants a material change in circumstances. You are attacking the reason most people in the Bible believed. I find that very odd manifestation of over-spiritualization. They saw and believed.

What did they see? A miraculous change in material circumstance.

 

[St. SteVen]

@St. SteVen ..what does over spiritualism mean?

How can anyone who is Born Again, not be spiritual?

Good question.
To be clear, he wrote: "... rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity."

I suppose he means finding spiritual meaning in every aspect of our life.
This in reaction to my question about whether a person should ask God to
change them (spiritually) rather than change their material circumstance?

I think God wants us to live above our material circumstances.
Wrangler sees this as the "rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity." (go figure)

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Just because some prayer for material change in circumstance are denied does not mean God never grants a material change in circumstances.

Not what I said.

I'm not campaigning AGAINST God's ability to change circumstances. God is just as capable of transforming a life as he is of transforming a circumstance.

Got it?

[

 

[amadeus]

Not rather but AND change our circumstance is what we can look to God for.

Jesus did not pray the Apostles in the boat would be brave in the face of the storm that kills them. He stopped the storm, thereby changing their circumstances. As I see it, your post is indicative of the rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity, going against the vast majority of the Bible.

Elijah prayed for and was granted no rain. Prayed again after years and it rained. Samson prayed for and got his power back at the end. Jesus cured the sick, fed the hungry, gave sight to the blind, which changed their circumstances. In Acts 12 an Angel made a prison break for Peter, changing his circumstances. Deliver us from evil is a change in circumstance.

To answer the OP's question, Jesus answers prayers and said ask anything in my name and it will be granted. Why would we not ask and he not also grant a change to our circumstances?

Right.
We are not a hopeless victim of circumstance.

In fact, we can look to God to change us, rather than change our circumstance.
A benefit the world cannot comprehend.

[

Yes, both perhaps, but let us always ask, whatever we ask in accordance with His Will!

Mt 26:39

And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, both perhaps

Perhaps? Over-spiritualization. Again
Matthew 6:33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, AND all these things will be given to you as well.

Do you see the word perhaps or the word "will", a change in material circumstance WILL be given to you as well?

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps? Over-spiritualization. Again
Matthew 6:33
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, AND all these things will be given to you as well.

Do you see the word perhaps or the word "will", a change in material circumstance WILL be given to you as well?

Yes, they WILL, when we do first things first! But then alone... what are we able to do?

Joh 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, they WILL, when we do first things first! But then alone... what are we able to do?

Joh 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Don't be a but monkey. Therein is the over-spiritualization.

Yes, the priority of putting the kingdom of God first is aligned with the 1st Commandment. However, just because we put God first does not mean only; we are soulful creatures with a body that has physical, material needs AND God knows this and provides to change our material circumstances. Even Jesus has angels tend to his needs. Jesus fed the 5,000 not just with words.

 

[St. SteVen]

Ritajanice said:
@St. SteVen ..what does over spiritualism mean?
How can anyone who is Born Again, not be spiritual?

Good question.
To be clear, he wrote: "... rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity."

I suppose he means finding spiritual meaning in every aspect of our life.
This in reaction to my question about whether a person should ask God to
change them (spiritually) rather than change their material circumstance?

I think God wants us to live above our material circumstances.
Wrangler sees this as the "rampant over-spiritualization of Christianity." (go figure)

It occurs to me that this is a result of Unitarianism.
He does not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person.
And anything beyond following the dry written teachings of Jesus is over-spiritualized.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 NIV
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,
5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

2 Timothy 3:5 NIV
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

[

 

[JohnDB]

Ummmmm
When people talk about "I was so miserable in my sin and then I found Jesus and then experienced true joy for the first time in my life"
I have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

I was as happy as a pig in mud when I was sinning and trying to sin more. I never did the miserable sins....I did ALL the fun ones. And I really enjoyed all of them.

However,
I finally acknowledged that I was made for more than just selfish behavior. I was capable of so much more. And I realized that I was actually unconditionally loved. Not because of anything I did or didn't do (which wasn't much) but just because of who I am.

And I figured out that there was a price I was currently paying and going to pay for the rest of my life for my former attitudes and actions that were much more than I wanted to pay.

So, I went back to the beginning and decided I needed to have a REAL change. Because I wanted the price to stop once I was dead.

And I felt the need to express genuine gratitude on an ongoing basis for the forgiveness I had received. And I needed to learn the difference between what I thought was good vx what was truly good and holy.

So....
What's in it for me? Not much except forgiveness by God...and eternal life. But there is a cost to being a believer. Resources are expended in an ongoing basis. However, who else is going to provide eternal life?

But the lifestyle of being a giver, of altruistic efforts, of gratitude for the God of Hope....it's expensive. It costs you everything....but...

Blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God.