Sound Doctrine

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm on a phone right now.
Will get an image from Google...
This is a lake about 30 minutes from home...

do they have aligators?

 

[Marymog]

If you don't see it Mary, then I can't help you.
Go talk to a Monsignor or something.

I agree. You can't help me. You can't even help yourself to provide the evidence to back up your own statement. Obviously you don't "see it" either otherwise I am sure you would have been more than happy to give your evidence. You failed and you are unable to back up your own statement.

How about a chance to redeem yourself and back up your own statement. I ask you again: I worship the cross? Where is your evidence of that?

Patient Mary

PS....you seem to have forgotten that we Catholics have the crucifix, not the cross, in our churches. Did you actually mean "crucifix"?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here's where I live in Florida...

 

[Episkopos]

Here's where I live in Florida...

View attachment 4485

You live in a tree? I hope you have stored enough chestnuts for winter. :)

 

[Marymog]

"(1) I am glad to see that you have faith in the fact that you have all the correct books in the NT you are quoting from. Did you know that your faith is based on the Tradition of The Church?" Do you not understand that Christians ARE the "Church"?
Of course I have faith in the books of the bible being correct, if they are not in there, God does not WANT them there.

"(2) Please do not twist scripture. Scripture says take it to the Church NOT to the congregants of that local body." First off, I do not twist scripture! If that were to happen in m church, one brother or sister would approach to one in error...if he does not listen then, you bring in 1 or 2 more (...by the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses) Then my church would bring that person to the pastor WITH the board members present. And, the board members ARE the congregants and they ARE part of the body of Christ-His Church.

I do not know why you seem to assume I am somehow trying to "convince" you of anything! I do not do that. But boy, you sure seem to be trying real hard for me to see things your way. Lol. Prayer. Holy Spirit. Bible. Faith. And if ALL you have is Jesus then you have all you need. I am way too busy in my life right now and have zero desire to do back and forths. That is so old I could spit.
God Bless and take care.

Thank you Nancy. If you are reading this I appreciate it. I assumed you would want to know that we are both alike in that we both accept Tradition.

Your faith about knowing or believing who wrote the books of the bible is based on the written Tradition of the ECF's of which they received this information orally due to those books not being signed by it's author. Since scripture does not tell us what books belong in Scripture you have relied on the oral and written Traditions of The Church. Therefor you, like me and billions of other Christians, have accepted the Tradition of The Church even though MOST Protestants say they reject Tradition?


Mary

 

[Marymog]

I didn't bother giving you that example because I doubted it would accomplish anything... Even protestants continue the same unbiblical tradition. Many have debated the issue for centuries, so I don't think mentioning it here would bring any light to your mind. Suffice to say... It is a Catholic tradition that the Catholic church admits is not to be found in the Bible. It is a tradition that replaces ancient Christian practice (apostolic practice) with a counterfeit . Of course Rome claims that she had the authority to change anything... Even the commandments of God. So to the Catholic mind, my example would be no big deal.

Once again....a whole bunch of words but nothing said.

You can't back up your own statements OR refute mine with any FACTS therefore I must move on.

Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, I can say your statement is BIZARRE!! Reading the bible forbidden??? It is hard to take you serious when you make statements like that. First off the bible wasn't even available to the average person until the printing press was invented. Second off a large portion of the population couldn't even read. Third off it was illiterate so even if they did have the bible in front of them, the wouldn't be able to read it and wouldn't understand it. It was AFTER the invention of the printing press, which happened around the time of the Reformation, that the average person was able to afford bibles (supply and demand drove down the cost) and people started becoming more literate. It was then that every person with a bible in their hand thought they could interpret it better than the church leadership (Protestant and Catholic) ESPECIALLY since the Holy Spirit was personally guiding them. Hence, with those two events happening at the same time in history, The Church began splintering into thousands of churches, even to this day. If you knew your own Christian history you would know that even Martin Luther complained about this....and he was on of the catalyst for it. But you didn't know this....Did you?

Do you know WHY The Church declared her Immaculate in 1854? Google it so you don't rely on historical Mary for you answer. (I prefer BING, it earns me points )

NOW, back to the original questions (that were based on your false statement) THAT YOU DODGED: The mass started in the Dark Ages? Did the Dark Ages start around the year 150AD?

Based on the evidence I gave you are you even going to acknowledge that your statement about the mass starting in the dark ages was not accurate? Or are you going to pretend the evidence is not there?

Curious and patient Mary

Hi Mary,
I have to say that regarding the bible being forbidden to be read, as Episkopos stated, he really happens to be right.

I'm not speaking about the U.S. --- I don't know what went on there. I know that when I met up with our Lord back in the 70's (in NYC) it was not ENCOURAGED to read the bible and there was no bible study. This was one of the reasons I left the church -- there just was nothing there for me.

However, I can tell you without any doubt, that it WAS forbidden to read the bible here in Italy. As short ago as the 60's SEMINARIANS had to have special permission to read the O.T.

I know this from personal experience of those that were told the above.

 

[GodsGrace]

You live in a tree? I hope you have stored enough chestnuts for winter. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

I didn't bother giving you that example because I doubted it would accomplish anything... Even protestants continue the same unbiblical tradition. Many have debated the issue for centuries, so I don't think mentioning it here would bring any light to your mind. Suffice to say... It is a Catholic tradition that the Catholic church admits is not to be found in the Bible. It is a tradition that replaces ancient Christian practice (apostolic practice) with a counterfeit . Of course Rome claims that she had the authority to change anything... Even the commandments of God. So to the Catholic mind, my example would be no big deal.

nicely put imo

 

[GodsGrace]

do they have aligators?

Why?
Afraid you'd miss them!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

nicely put imo

Actually, I'd like to have the answer from @brakelite too. I posted to him, hope he replies....

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's where I live in Florida...

View attachment 4485

Rollo,
It says "click to show the full-size version"...
I'm AFRAID to!

I hope that's not in your backyard...
I wouldn't even fit in mine.

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary,
I have to say that regarding the bible being forbidden to be read, as Episkopos stated, he really happens to be right.

I'm not speaking about the U.S. --- I don't know what went on there. I know that when I met up with our Lord back in the 70's (in NYC) it was not ENCOURAGED to read the bible and there was no bible study. This was one of the reasons I left the church -- there just was nothing there for me.

However, I can tell you without any doubt, that it WAS forbidden to read the bible here in Italy. As short ago as the 60's SEMINARIANS had to have special permission to read the O.T.

I know this from personal experience of those that were told the above.

Thank you GG. I am unfamiliar with The Church's practice back in the 70's so I will have to do some research. I am pretty sure they had missals in all the pews and I have a "Catholic" bible that has been handed down to me from my husbands Great Grandmother. The kind where they write the family tree on the front pages!! I find your statement fascinating. It leads me to many questions.

Were you unable to buy a bible at the local bookstore? Were you forbade to do that also?

When you went to mass did they not have the missal in the pew's for you to read from?

Who told you not to read the bible? The priest? Was their a declaration from the local bishop? If you happen to remember...this old gal couldn't remember that far back...

Mary

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I can say your statement is BIZARRE!! Reading the bible forbidden??? It is hard to take you serious when you make statements like that. First off the bible wasn't even available to the average person until the printing press was invented. Second off a large portion of the population couldn't even read. Third off it was illiterate so even if they did have the bible in front of them, the wouldn't be able to read it and wouldn't understand it. It was AFTER the invention of the printing press, which happened around the time of the Reformation, that the average person was able to afford bibles (supply and demand drove down the cost) and people started becoming more literate. It was then that every person with a bible in their hand thought they could interpret it better than the church leadership (Protestant and Catholic) ESPECIALLY since the Holy Spirit was personally guiding them. Hence, with those two events happening at the same time in history, The Church began splintering into thousands of churches, even to this day. If you knew your own Christian history you would know that even Martin Luther complained about this....and he was on of the catalyst for it. But you didn't know this....Did you?

Do you know WHY The Church declared her Immaculate in 1854? Google it so you don't rely on historical Mary for you answer. (I prefer BING, it earns me points )

NOW, back to the original questions (that were based on your false statement) THAT YOU DODGED: The mass started in the Dark Ages? Did the Dark Ages start around the year 150AD?

Based on the evidence I gave you are you even going to acknowledge that your statement about the mass starting in the dark ages was not accurate? Or are you going to pretend the evidence is not there?

Curious and patient Mary

Have you heard of the 2nd Vatican council? The RCC was only catching up with the competition proposed by the reformation...where people could read the bible for themselves. That was in the 1960's. The printing press was perfected in 1440. So there was a clerical memo error in the RCC for 500 years???? Paleese!

Before that the Catholic bible was in Latin (Vulgate) and lay people were forbidden to read it...I am old enough to remember that...since people that did read the bible tended towards becoming "protestant".

 

[bbyrd009]

Rollo,
It says "click to show the full-size version"...
I'm AFRAID to!

I hope that's not in your backyard...
I wouldn't even fit in mine.

if that is a Swamp Willow it is by far the most humongous one i have ever seen

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you GG. I am unfamiliar with The Church's practice back in the 70's so I will have to do some research. I am pretty sure they had missals in all the pews and I have a "Catholic" bible that has been handed down to me from my husbands Great Grandmother. The kind where they write the family tree on the front pages!! I find your statement fascinating. It leads me to many questions.

Were you unable to buy a bible at the local bookstore? Were you forbade to do that also?

When you went to mass did they not have the missal in the pew's for you to read from?

Who told you not to read the bible? The priest? Was their a declaration from the local bishop? If you happen to remember...this old gal couldn't remember that far back...

Mary

Much misunderstanding here Mary!
I went to Mass even after I became born again. I still go to Mass now every now and then.

There were song books in the pews back in NY but not bibles. This might have been different in different catholic churches...I went to St. Rita's in Astoria and St. Mel's in Whitestone after marriage. 50's, 60's, etc.

Bibles were definitely available in NY, but if I remember it was the Protestants that liked having them and not Catholics. When I first attended a Nazarene church in the 70's, I was surprised to find that everyone there had a bible and all the different versions. I had so much to learn.

I'm speaking about Italy, where I live now, and how the bible was forbidden here.
I know this from my family and from priests I know personally and have heard it from them first-hand; even about the seminary thing.

I can also state that the CC has changed a lot, even though some on these boards refuse to believe this... I can't help that. It's changed for the better.

Hope this clears things up a bit...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You live in a tree? I hope you have stored enough chestnuts for winter. :)

Why?
Afraid you'd miss them!!!

Don't pick on me.
I'm sensitive.

 

[GodsGrace]

Don't pick on me.
I'm sensitive.

Judging from your brand new avatar...
you sure don't look sensitive!

• 

 

[GodsGrace]

And, @Rollo Tamasi , you think we're picking on you?

You look cuter than normal...

 

[Episkopos]

The RCC has always played to the innocence of people. It wanted to keep people sheltered from evil. It is the church of a simplistic notion that keeps everything simple and simplistic. It's great for kids.

But the world "grew up" so to speak. And in more ways than one.

The Devil knows his time is short...so then evil is increasing steadily...and has been for some time. That is one factor. Another factor is that you can't bury the truth for ever. People want access to biblical truth. Of course this has opened a Pandora's box of human interpretations....something that the RCC clerics sought to avoid (according to a worldly wisdom).

But the cat is out of the bag now.

The RCC will continue to diminish and dwindle as any kind of serious representation of Jesus. That's because for better or worse we need the REAL thing now. A lack of knowledge and understanding...as a trade-off for simplicity...no longer works in an evil world where doing wrong is more and more touted as right.

The church needs to re-connect with God and be the light of the world once again. People need real solutions. The evil is real. So must be the answer. We need to BE the church of God in Christ. We need to be living sacrifices that put on the righteousness of God...according to power....His power.