Sound Doctrine

[Marymog]

I'll give you one Mary.
Jesus still on the cross because he is sacrificed daily in the mass. He never gets off the cross.
Protestants take Jesus off the cross because he has risen and we celebrate the life in Christ, not his death daily as catholics do.

Hi Rollo. Thank you for your input.

A cross without Christ on it is a symbol/reminder of all those who were crucified by the Romans.

A cross with Christ on it, commonly called a crucifix, is a reminder of what He did for us. Do you not like a visual reminder of what He did for us?

As Catholics we preach Christ crucified. (1 Cor. 1:23).

It is Protestants who should apologize for separating Christ’s body from his cross. The Church values both his body and his cross. He died as man to save the world which means that his human body is sacred and worthy of our worship. He chose to die by crucifixion for our sins and you Protestants reject that visualization and choose a bare cross.

The crucifix came first and you can't have a cross (risen Jesus) without a crucifix (tortured for our sins Jesus).

Is either tradition (cross or crucifix) wrong? I say no!

BTW.....Christians have been practicing "his death daily" (mass) since the Apostles were alive (Acts 2:46). If you want to learn your Christian history further reading on that subject matter would be the Didache (80AD) where it is written “on every Lord's day gather yourselves together, break bread and give thanks after having confessed your transgressions" which Catholics still do at mass and read Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr's 1st apology who both re-affirm scripture and the Catholic mass.

The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year practice (mass) backed up by scripture and historical Christian writings from the time of the Apostles.

The Protestant tradition that you accept is only about 500 years old .

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I do know, but I'm keeping it a secret. :cool:

I am not going to ask you to reveal your secret PW.

I can't find in scripture who wrote Luke and Acts which means you had to go to a different source to discover what you KNOW.

Can you point me toward your source without revealing it? Just a hint or two? Please?

Mary

PS....The best thing to do is to speak the truth in love hoping that those who are misled will come to the truth.

 

[amadeus]

OK

Sooooo was it your interpeaton or did you borrow it from someone else?

2nd attempt at an answer.....Mary

I told you that the answer was from God.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Rollo. Thank you for your input.

A cross without Christ on it is a symbol/reminder of all those who were crucified by the Romans.

A cross with Christ on it, commonly called a crucifix, is a reminder of what He did for us. Do you not like a visual reminder of what He did for us?

As Catholics we preach Christ crucified. (1 Cor. 1:23).

It is Protestants who should apologize for separating Christ’s body from his cross. The Church values both his body and his cross. He died as man to save the world which means that his human body is sacred and worthy of our worship. He chose to die by crucifixion for our sins and you Protestants reject that visualization and choose a bare cross.

The crucifix came first and you can't have a cross (risen Jesus) without a crucifix (tortured for our sins Jesus).

Is either tradition (cross or crucifix) wrong? I say no!

BTW.....Christians have been practicing "his death daily" (mass) since the Apostles were alive (Acts 2:46). If you want to learn your Christian history further reading on that subject matter would be the Didache (80AD) where it is written “on every Lord's day gather yourselves together, break bread and give thanks after having confessed your transgressions" which Catholics still do at mass and read Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr's 1st apology who both re-affirm scripture and the Catholic mass.

The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year practice (mass) backed up by scripture and historical Christian writings from the time of the Apostles.

The Protestant tradition that you accept is only about 500 years old .

Mary

Not the RCC thing?

The mass started in the dark ages. The early church had a real meal together. That's what "breaking bread" means. Check it out.

The mass is not even remotely inspired by the early church practices.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Rollo. Thank you for your input.

A cross without Christ on it is a symbol/reminder of all those who were crucified by the Romans.

A cross with Christ on it, commonly called a crucifix, is a reminder of what He did for us. Do you not like a visual reminder of what He did for us?

As Catholics we preach Christ crucified. (1 Cor. 1:23).

It is Protestants who should apologize for separating Christ’s body from his cross. The Church values both his body and his cross. He died as man to save the world which means that his human body is sacred and worthy of our worship. He chose to die by crucifixion for our sins and you Protestants reject that visualization and choose a bare cross.

The crucifix came first and you can't have a cross (risen Jesus) without a crucifix (tortured for our sins Jesus).

Is either tradition (cross or crucifix) wrong? I say no!

BTW.....Christians have been practicing "his death daily" (mass) since the Apostles were alive (Acts 2:46). If you want to learn your Christian history further reading on that subject matter would be the Didache (80AD) where it is written “on every Lord's day gather yourselves together, break bread and give thanks after having confessed your transgressions" which Catholics still do at mass and read Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr's 1st apology who both re-affirm scripture and the Catholic mass.

The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year practice (mass) backed up by scripture and historical Christian writings from the time of the Apostles.

The Protestant tradition that you accept is only about 500 years old .

Mary

YOU CAN'T HAVE A RISEN CHRIST IF HE IS STILL ON THE CROSS!
THE MASS IS A CELEBRATION OF THE DEATH OF CHRIST.
YOU WORSHIP A DEAD CHRIST.
PROTESTANTS WORSHIP A RISEN CHRIST, ONE THAT SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD AND IS VERY MUCH ALIVE.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Rollo. Thank you for your input.

A cross without Christ on it is a symbol/reminder of all those who were crucified by the Romans.

A cross with Christ on it, commonly called a crucifix, is a reminder of what He did for us. Do you not like a visual reminder of what He did for us?

As Catholics we preach Christ crucified. (1 Cor. 1:23).

It is Protestants who should apologize for separating Christ’s body from his cross. The Church values both his body and his cross. He died as man to save the world which means that his human body is sacred and worthy of our worship. He chose to die by crucifixion for our sins and you Protestants reject that visualization and choose a bare cross.

The crucifix came first and you can't have a cross (risen Jesus) without a crucifix (tortured for our sins Jesus).

Is either tradition (cross or crucifix) wrong? I say no!

BTW.....Christians have been practicing "his death daily" (mass) since the Apostles were alive (Acts 2:46). If you want to learn your Christian history further reading on that subject matter would be the Didache (80AD) where it is written “on every Lord's day gather yourselves together, break bread and give thanks after having confessed your transgressions" which Catholics still do at mass and read Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr's 1st apology who both re-affirm scripture and the Catholic mass.

The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year practice (mass) backed up by scripture and historical Christian writings from the time of the Apostles.

The Protestant tradition that you accept is only about 500 years old .

Mary

Mary, I'm not a Christian from the times of the Apostles nor do I worship as they did.
Neither do you.
When was the last time you heard of someone give the sale of a house to the church so they could use the proceeds to feed the poor?
You talk about the early church fathers and the value of the tradition they pass down to us.
But modern day church fathers that are protestants have no value.
You have taken the values of all protestants and thrown them into the toilet.
That's disgusting.
When was the last time you quoted anything by Billy Graham that was purely a protestant response?

 

[Marymog]

I told you that the answer was from God.

Oh. I thought you were joking since your interpretation is different then what was taught 2,000 years ago.

I am specifically talking about this statement from you: We have been provided the means: scripture [flesh of Jesus] and blood [the quickening Spirit]."Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."

So the question begs: If, as you seem to believe, God told you that is how that portion of scripture should be interpreted and he told other men (Ignatius and Justin Martyr to name a FEW) something different 2,000 years ago why should I believe you over those men?

Mary

 

[amadeus]

Oh. I thought you were joking since your interpretation is different then what was taught 2,000 years ago.

I am specifically talking about this statement from you: We have been provided the means: scripture [flesh of Jesus] and blood [the quickening Spirit]."Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."

So the question begs: If, as you seem to believe, God told you that is how that portion of scripture should be interpreted and he told other men (Ignatius and Justin Martyr to name a FEW) something different 2,000 years ago why should I believe you over those men?

Mary

You should NOT believe me over other men. Both of us should believe God. Are we not His sheep?

 

[GodsGrace]

One of the most basic building blocks to sound doctrine is the fear of the Lord. It is something that one sees immediately in a person's behaviour. It is also the beginning of wisdom. But who wants wisdom these days?

So if this be true than arrogance is out.
Smugness is out.
Self-interest is out.
Over-confidence is out.

It is good to be confident....but in the Lord. Also for sorrow...a godly sorrow is good...but not a worldly sorrow. A low-self-esteem is likewise self-driven. It is a frustrated self-interest. But esteeming others as higher than yourself is good and to be desired.

So we are to submit to one another IN THE FEAR of the Lord. Everything we do is to be for edification for others. If something isn't edifying...then it should not be spoken.

Now of course a person who is spiritual can see where things need to be torn down in order to build again. But not tearing down for tearing down's sake...or for the sake of changing a doctrine. We are looking for a change in LIFE....not just beliefs. A good builder already sees what the building can become. He sees according to the blueprint...

Great thread. Looks like I missed it all by being away.
I like this 2nd page the best...especially the first two paragraphs.
Amen to that...I also have noticed this.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

YOU CAN'T HAVE A RISEN CHRIST IF HE IS STILL ON THE CROSS!
THE MASS IS A CELEBRATION OF THE DEATH OF CHRIST.
YOU WORSHIP A DEAD CHRIST.
PROTESTANTS WORSHIP A RISEN CHRIST, ONE THAT SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD AND IS VERY MUCH ALIVE.

I agree with you, Rollo! I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Marymog]

Not the RCC thing?

The mass started in the dark ages. The early church had a real meal together. That's what "breaking bread" means. Check it out.

The mass is not even remotely inspired by the early church practices.

Really? The mass started in the Dark Ages? Did the Dark Ages start around the year 150AD?

Ever been to a Catholic Mass Episskopos? If you had you would recognize in the mass what Justin wrote almost 1,900 years ago. Maybe YOU should "check it out":

On the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a given city or rural district. The memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read (scripture), as long as time permits. Then when the reader ceases, the president (priest) in a discourse admonishes and urges the imitation of these good things. Next we all rise together and send up prayers. When we cease from our prayer, bread is presented and wine and water. The president in the same manner sends up prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people sing out their assent, saying the 'Amen.' A distribution and participation of the elements (Eucharist) for which thanks have been given is made to each person, and to those who are not present they are sent by the deacons. Those who have means and are willing, each according to his own choice, gives what he wills, and what is collected is deposited with the president. He provides for the orphans and widows, those who are in need on account of sickness or some other cause, those who are in bonds, strangers who are sojourning, and in a word he becomes the protector of all who are in need. And this food is called among us the Eucharist….it is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. (Justin Martyr)

You don't even know your own Christian history. How sad

Historical Mary

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Oh. I thought you were joking since your interpretation is different then what was taught 2,000 years ago.

I am specifically talking about this statement from you: We have been provided the means: scripture [flesh of Jesus] and blood [the quickening Spirit]."Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."

So the question begs: If, as you seem to believe, God told you that is how that portion of scripture should be interpreted and he told other men (Ignatius and Justin Martyr to name a FEW) something different 2,000 years ago why should I believe you over those men?

Mary

Mary, sometimes I've gotten the impression that you're copying BOL's way of interacting with people on this forum. It's really not the best way to relate to people, IMO. One thing to consider is that some of us are quite a bit older than you (I'm guessing). Showing some respect to people who are older is not a bad idea.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please

Mary, sometimes I've gotten the impression that you're copying BOL's way of interacting with people on this forum. It's really not the best way to relate to people, IMO. One thing to consider is that some of us are quite a bit older than you (I'm guessing). Showing some respect to people who are older is not a bad idea.

We should give respect to everyone, not just older folk.
BTW, Mary is nice to everyone...
She's very patient, in my opinion.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Please

We should give respect to everyone, not just older folk.
BTW, Mary is nice to everyone...
She's very patient, in my opinion.

I agree that all are due respect, but evidently, you haven't experienced Mary's goading and condescension. Just look at the post after this one and the post before yours....

1 Timothy 5:1-2--"Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and with all propriety, the younger women as sisters."

 

[Marymog]

YOU CAN'T HAVE A RISEN CHRIST IF HE IS STILL ON THE CROSS!
THE MASS IS A CELEBRATION OF THE DEATH OF CHRIST.
YOU WORSHIP A DEAD CHRIST.
PROTESTANTS WORSHIP A RISEN CHRIST, ONE THAT SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD AND IS VERY MUCH ALIVE.

To suggest Catholics don't think Jesus is alive, risen and sitting at the right hand of God because we portray him on a crucifix instead of a cross is ludicrous. Using your own illogical argument one could say an empty cross means he was never crucified because he never made it to the cross therefor he never rose and never made it to His fathers right hand. So please stop trying to be philosophical.

Let me help you out with a visual aid painted in your mind: Imagine 3 empty crosses. Anything different about those crosses? No, they are all empty, all the same. Nothing significant about any of them.

Now imagine a cross with a man on it wearing a crown of thorns, a hole in his side and no bones broken. Who is that man? Who's cross is that?

I will help you out here: An empty cross could be the cross of Jesus OR either of the two thieves that were crucified with Him that day. Is that the cross you are putting up in your church/home/on wall in your home? One of the thieves cross?

Your ignorance of the Catholic mass and Catholic teaching is astounding. I know it will do no good to educate you so I hope you take the time to educate yourself.

Mary

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Please

We should give respect to everyone, not just older folk.
BTW, Mary is nice to everyone...
She's very patient, in my opinion.

Mary has it in for me.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

To suggest Catholics don't think Jesus is alive, risen and sitting at the right hand of God because we portray him on a crucifix instead of a cross is ludicrous. Using your own illogical argument one could say an empty cross means he was never crucified because he never made it to the cross therefor he never rose and never made it to His fathers right hand. So please stop trying to be philosophical.

Let me help you out with a visual aid painted in your mind: Imagine 3 empty crosses. Anything different about those crosses? No, they are all empty, all the same. Nothing significant about any of them.

Now imagine a cross with a man on it wearing a crown of thorns, a hole in his side and no bones broken. Who is that man? Who's cross is that?

I will help you out here: An empty cross could be the cross of Jesus OR either of the two thieves that were crucified with Him that day. Is that the cross you are putting up in your church/home/on wall in your home? One of the thieves cross?

Your ignorance of the Catholic mass and Catholic teaching is astounding. I know it will do no good to educate you so I hope you take the time to educate yourself.

Mary

Sounds like idol worship.
You worship the cross.
READ YOUR BIBLE!

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I'm not a Christian from the times of the Apostles nor do I worship as they did.
Neither do you.
When was the last time you heard of someone give the sale of a house to the church so they could use the proceeds to feed the poor?
You talk about the early church fathers and the value of the tradition they pass down to us.
But modern day church fathers that are protestants have no value.
You have taken the values of all protestants and thrown them into the toilet.
That's disgusting.
When was the last time you quoted anything by Billy Graham that was purely a protestant response?

Dear Rollo,

I do worship as I am from the time of the Apostles. I gather together with my fellow Christians and break bread (Acts) and when I do this I don't do it in unworthy manner so I won't bring judgment upon myself (1 Corinthians). I pray after communion and no one in my Church (RCC) is allowed to partake of the communion until they are baptized which was the practice of the 1st century Christians (Didache). Now I could go on and on how I do practice what the Christians from the times of the Apostles practiced so PLEASE don't suggest that I don't do those things. Do you partake in communion Rollo?

I, or someone who wants to prove they are a true Apostolic Christian, has to sell their house and use the proceeds from it to feed the poor? THAT would be PROOF I am an Apostolic Christian? Maybe I should only go to church in houses also???? You should re-think your statement/analogy. ;)

I value Scripture, the Apostolic Fathers and Early Church Fathers when it comes to discerning the Truth of scripture. The Apostolic Fathers walked and talked with the Apostles or were trained by men who walked/talked with them soooooo you should value their words over Protestant men also.

I have read many books from Protestant men/women and enjoy them very much. They have some good information in them. Some of those Protestant men disagree with you. If I start quoting them to show you that you are wrong are you going to tell me I am wrong for quoting them? Of course you are because only YOU know which Protestant man is right and which is wrong. ;)

You have taken Catholic values and thrown them in the toilet. That's disgusting! Catholic values are 2,000 years old and values that your Christians ancestors adhered to and fought for loosing life, limb and property. Why are you stomping on the grave of your Christians ancestors?

I have never quoted Billy Graham. Why would I? He didn't walk with the Apostles. ;)

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Mary has it in for me.

Ummmm.....Your the one who threw yourself into the conversation by contacting me first soooooooo please don't go there!!!!

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Sounds like idol worship.
You worship the cross.
READ YOUR BIBLE!

Wow...such an articulate and well thought out response. You aren't even going to try and refute what I have written???

Really? I worship the cross? Where is your evidence of that?

Patient Mary