Sound Doctrine

[Marymog]

Yes, I believe I can, mary.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

And if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, his son, cleanses us from all sin.

And, the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

And, according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

And, not with the blood of bulls and calves, but with His own blood He entered the most holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Very good. Leviticus and Hebrews. Good job!

Do those verses negate "be baptized, and wash away thy sins" and be baptized for the "forgiveness of your sins"?

Or do my verses negate yours?

Or is it possible they are both true?

Have you read what The Didache and The Epistle of Barnabas (both written while the Apostles were still alive) have to say about water baptism?

Or did you only read the writings of men since the reformation?


Mary

PS.....I almost looked over (didn't see) your response to me. Next time would you please click on the "reply" button so I will get a notification that you replied? Thank you in advance :)

 

[Marymog]

hi mary.

As to the Precious Blood not washing away/ bringing forgiveness of sins, but only a man doing something that will wash away my sins, I most vociferously disagree, based on the whole of scripture.

Dear friend,

How can you vociferously disagree based on the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE when you are throwing out part of scripture that speaks on this matter?????

If you are basing what you SHOULD believe on the whole of Scripture then you would see that it says at least three things about forgiveness or washing away of sins: Baptism washes it away, man can forgive it (or retain it) and the act of Jesus shedding his blood cleanses us from sin.

Sooooo you are not disagreeing using the WHOLE of scripture. You are looking at the few passages in scripture that agree with what you believe (or have been wrongly taught) and throwing out the passages that don't fit your belief. Why are you doing that?

Curious Mary

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, I believe the Baptism with the Spirit is the Baptism being spoken of in the verse, not the baptism of John. I have received that Baptism.

 

[Episkopos]

Wow. Your church is really blessed. It's been 17 years since you have had a fellow brother sin against you or anyone in your house church.

Do you recall how the judgment went down? Were all of the church members in agreement against this one person? Or was there some dissent?

Mary

It was disciplinary. Details are confidential...

 

[Episkopos]

That is PART of scripture. Have you ever read the ENTIRE scripture on this matter??? One does not cancel out the other.

Mary

BTW....Hebrews 9:22 IN CONTEXT talks about the shedding of the blood of calves mixed together with water. Furthermore you forgot(?) to highlight the words "one may ALMOST say".....;) Kind of weakens your argument a little bit eh'?

The ashes of the heifer? Check out Hebrews 9:13-14

 

[Nancy]

Dear friend,

Your argument is not with me, it is with Scripture (Paul and Peter specifically). Therefore if you get to heaven you should ask them for they are the ones who said this, not me: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus had to die so that he could raise from the dead. His death did not wash away my sins. In FACT, he gave the Apostles the ability to forgive OR retain sins: Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???

Bible study Mary

"So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???"
As to my guess here, God has promised forgiveness wherever there is repentance so, I liken it to speaking to a seeking unbeliever, becoming a believer. We can, lead a sinner into a prayer of repentance, assure them that their sins truly are forgiven and forgotten by God. And as for water baptism, I liken that to a public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus Christ and the water is symbolic of washing away the "old man" of sin, and rising from the water a "new man".

 

[Marymog]

It was disciplinary. Details are confidential...

Of course! As well they should be.

Thank you.

 

[Marymog]

The ashes of the heifer? Check out Hebrews 9:13-14

Thank you. I forgot about that passage.

I hope you can see that I am not disagreeing with you. What I am trying to make clear to you is that one scripture passage does not cancel out the other. Would you agree with that?

Or to put it differently: We shouldn't go shopping for passages that bolster what we believe and throw out any that doesn't fit our belief.

Mary

 

[brakelite]

So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???

Yes, one must take into consideration the whole of scripture; and if there appears to be a contradiction in your understanding, the weight of scriptural evidence decides the matter...not the opinion or tradtion of the church.
Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[Marymog]

"So now I ask you: If, as it seems you are suggesting, the death of Jesus washed away the sins of all men (specifically the first century Christians) why did Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins??? According to your theory their sins were already washed away by His death???"[/I]

As to my guess here, God has promised forgiveness wherever there is repentance so, I liken it to speaking to a seeking unbeliever, becoming a believer. We can, lead a sinner into a prayer of repentance, assure them that their sins truly are forgiven and forgotten by God.

And as for water baptism, I liken that to a public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus Christ and the water is symbolic of washing away the "old man" of sin, and rising from the water a "new man".

Thank you Nancy.

Your "guess" is partially true. God HAS promised forgiveness wherever there is repentance. He also promised forgiveness in Matthew 6:14 further saying if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. BOTH can be true. To pretend that only one can be true means that you (any Christian) are only accepting the part of scripture that you like and tossing the part out you don't like out.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that water baptism is a "public confession of your newfound faith in Jesus". If I have overlooked it please quote it for me.

According to scripture and historical writings (The Didache) from the time of the Apostles the act of baptism consist of one person baptizing (pouring water over/immersing) the other. There is no need for anymore than two people to be present (the baptizer and the baptize) and there is NO/NONE/ZILCH/NOTTA instruction in scripture that it has to be done in public view. The "public confession" belief began AFTER the reformation. It is a recent teaching of men.

Nowhere does scripture say that water baptism is a symbol. The FACT is that scripture says that baptism DOES something to you: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since you want to throw out the part of scripture that says that getting baptized is a remission of you sins does that mean you are also throwing out that you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost???

If you are, as scripture says, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost when you get baptized is that not doing something TO you?? Seems to be more than a "public confession" if I am getting a gift :)

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Yes, one must take into consideration the whole of scripture; and if there appears to be a contradiction in your understanding, the weight of scriptural evidence decides the matter...not the opinion or tradtion of the church.
Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Thank you.

According to your theory we as Christians are to throw out tradition? Your theory is opposite of scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

Furthermore your tradition (opinion) began 500 years ago. Why is it ok for you to hold onto a 500 year tradition but tell me to not hold to my 2,000 year tradition?

You have failed to articulate as to why Jesus, after he died, told the Apostles they could forgive sins if His death forgave all sins. Isn't that a bit contradictory???

Mary

 

[Helen]

Thank you.

According to your theory we as Christians are to throw out tradition? Your theory is opposite of scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15.

Furthermore your tradition (opinion) began 500 years ago. Why is it ok for you to hold onto a 500 year tradition but tell me to not hold to my 2,000 year tradition?

You have failed to articulate as to why Jesus, after he died, told the Apostles they could forgive sins if His death forgave all sins. Isn't that a bit contradictory???

Mary

Tradition does not = Truth!

.....

 

[Marymog]

Tradition does not = Truth!

.....View attachment 4319

I agree. Tradition does not equal Truth. However, the NT Christians were told to hold fast to the traditions they were taught by letter or word of mouth. Are you suggesting they were taught some false traditions?

Please help me understand your thought process here.....

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Tradition does not = Truth!

.....View attachment 4319

Hey BG,

You may have said this before and I forgot but I believe you have said you DO NOT attend a church service? You are unaffiliated?

Respectfully, Mary

 

[farouk]

I agree. Tradition does not equal Truth. However, the NT Christians were told to hold fast to the traditions they were taught by letter or word of mouth. Are you suggesting they were taught some false traditions?

Please help me understand your thought process here.....

Mary

I think the point is that if one can say 'Thus saith the Lord' from Scripture, this makes for sound, Biblical tradition as opposed to human tradition.

 

[Helen]

Hey BG,

You may have said this before and I forgot but I believe you have said you DO NOT attend a church service? You are unaffiliated?

Respectfully, Mary

Yes, very true Mary.
After 50 years of "church" , christian politics , and "religion", I had had my fill of mans views and opted out....
My bible is enough..GOD is enough.

Joseph did not "go to church", neither did Abraham, Elijah , Jacob, Daniel and whoever else we read about.
So, yep...I am out!!
I have " Come out of her my people.."

 

[Marymog]

I think the point is that if one can say 'Thus saith the Lord' from Scripture, this makes for sound, Biblical tradition as opposed to human tradition.

Thank you faruk.

Which human tradition that Christians hold is the most egregious?

Mary

 

[farouk]

Thank you faruk.

Which human tradition that Christians hold is the most egregious?

Mary

See the end of Revelation 22, which speaks of not adding to God's Word. This is the kind of thing I had in mind.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, very true Mary.
After 50 years of "church" , christian politics , and "religion", I had had my fill of mans views and opted out....
My bible is enough..GOD is enough.

Joseph did not "go to church", neither did Abraham, Elijah , Jacob, Daniel and whoever else we read about.
So, yep...I am out!!
I have " Come out of her my people.."

Thank you. Sometimes this old gals memory plays tricks on her.

The NT states that they gathered daily, breaking bread, read scripture, established a hierarchy (elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor) set out rules on how to choose church leaders etc. etc. Since scripture instructs us in those things doesn't that mean the idea of a "Church" is not a tradition? Establishing a Church is a process with rules spelled out in scripture, the word of God?

Mary

BTW....Joseph took Jesus to Church with him ;)

 

[lforrest]

See the end of Revelation 22, which speaks of not adding to God's Word. This is the kind of thing I had in mind.

I'm sure people could argue till blue in the face arguing that their religious traditions are biblical.