Sinless perfection is easy

[Behold]

or maybe most christians believe in 1 John 1: 8 where John says if we claim we are (presently) not sinning, we decieve ourselves and their is no truth in us.

Most Christians forget that these Apostles wrote all this before a New Testament was created.
So, in many cases they are preaching to lost people.
1 Jn 1:9 is such a case.. and you know this because John is not sinning.......and he would never say, nor Paul, that they are sinning.
Paul nor John every confessed a sin, in their epistles... not once. ,and Paul wrote 13 epistles.

But they would say this to unbelievers... because when you talk to unbelievers, they have to understand that they are sinners needing to be forgiven.
So, if was preaching to a room full of people today, and they were all unbelievers, i would say........"now ALL have sinned"... so, we all must go to the Cross of Christ to let Jesus forgive our sin.

See that?
I just told the sinners, that "WE must all go to the Cross"...........however, ive already been there for a long time.

See it?

So, in the case of 1 John.. the "we" is talking about them.......not about the Apostle, Himself.

1 John 3 is clear. a person who lives in sin has never met or known God. A person born of God can not live in sin.

Well, ive explained it 3x, but, your not seeing what im saying, yet.. so, i'll leave it there.

Living in sin is living a lifestyle of everything you do is for self.

Living in sin, is many things..
Its doing deeds of carnality, willfully, and repetitiously .. refusing to stop.

Like watching dirty Netflix programs, every night, or almost every night.
Or watching "Game of Thrones" every week for 7 yrs.

He must get rid of desires.

And what they discover is that the more they try to stop, the more they want to do it.

So, that is the issue with not understanding Salvation.

so to tell this person they are not sinning, or that if they do not stop sin they are probably not saved,

A person's lifestyle , if they are a Christian, should reflect it, but that is not always the case.

You have people on this forum who are teaching Calvinism, and that is not related to the Life of a Real Christian.

. We all have our besetting sin,

That is your faith. .. that you have that type of sinn..... .You believe you have it, so you manifest it.
See, Jesus told you that what you BELIEVE, you will receive.....and you believe you have a "besetting sin".. as you just confessed your belief on the forum.

lol.. Judge not lest ye be judged. and yes you did insinuate it was a sin by the way you said it..

A Christian has no sin, as otherwise they would not be a Christian.
You can't have sin and be "in Christ" as there is no sin found there...

So, when a person does not understand their Salvation, then they will try to confess sin, to stay saved.

but they are still not living in sin. They have been born of God they can not live in sin

THey are not a sinner......but they are living a sinful lifestyle......or as Paul would define it, they are choosing deeds of the flesh, habitually.

 

[quietthinker]

Its not how you define it, its How God's word defines it..

Its simply, "transgression"... its "God said dont do this.. and i will do it".

So, you have laws commandments that tell you what you can't do, and if you decide to do it, then you have rebelled...

Sin is rebellion against God's stated standards.

= The Law of Moses and Commandments.

And the true purpose of the Law and Commandments, is to show us that we are sinners, who need help., And Jesus on the Cross is the Help.....>He's the Salvation that delivers us from the curse of the law.

= The born again are "not under the Law...........but under Grace".

if Law has been done away with then logically transgression of it is a moot point

 

[Taken]

um why would be be claiming this?

What is a mans sin Against God?

 

[Taken]

there are people in here who think they have no sin.. that they have achieved sinless perfection.

so if you have not heard anyone say this, I would say keep listening, because you will

I have heard one say they sin no more…
AND
Another ACCUSE THEM of claiming they are sinless.

Once accusing an other…is not one claiming sinlessness for themselves.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

I John 3
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Since the above is true you have to come to grips with what is being said about our spiritual relationship with God.
And it is about that part of you which is born of God. You are a new creation in Christ, you have a new spirit inside you alive to God and joined as one spirit with God.

A born of God man is the New Man in the Spirit, but still exist the Old Man of the flesh since we still have fleshly bodies and live in a sinful world, even though not being of the world and we can in our minds choose which MAN to feed.

The NEW Man of the spirit does not sin. And that is what God saves when He saves you. We also do not retain our old bodies do we when resurrected. At that time the old man can no longer be obeyed to follow it's lusts, but it can now so we can sin in our old bodies as we are also flesh and blood.

Paul tells us to put off the Old Man of the flesh which does sin and obey the New Man of the Spirit which has no sin and cannot sin.

We are judged for the deeds done in the body. but since we are also the New Man in Christ in the spirit, we have eternal life and will never perish.

The Judgment Seat of Christ​

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

The New Man​

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is a mans sin Against God?

If I sin against ny neighbor, I have sinned against God

If I know to do something, but decide I am not going to because I am to tired. I have sinned against God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have heard one say they sin no more…
AND
Another ACCUSE THEM of claiming they are sinless.

Once accusing an other…is not one claiming sinlessness for themselves.

Glory to God,
Taken

So if person A says they have overcome all sin, and they sin no more. And person B Accuses them of claiming they are sinless. And says his is impossible.

person B is claiming he (person B) is sinless??

 

[Taken]

If I sin against ny neighbor, I have sinned against God

I believe men CONFUSE the meaning OF “SIN” with the meaning OF “TRESPASS”…

You have to decide WHO can “FORGIVE SIN”… and “WHO” can “FORGIVE” Trespasses.

I believe a SIN is only AGAINST God…
And only God can Forgive SIN.

I believe SIN AGAINST God…IS disbelief.

I DO NOT believe men are taught to BELIEVE IN MEN…or that it is a SIN for men to NOT Believe IN men.

I believe men can Trespass AGAINST men…
And men CAN FORGIVE men of Trespasses.

I believe it is Trespasses Against men, when men Falsely accuse, beat, cheat, lie, steal, embezzle, etc. from other men.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy…Because Jesus openly before witnesses (who KNEW “only” God can forgive Sin) FORGAVE men of their SIN.

Mark 2:
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke.5
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So if person A says they have overcome all sin, and they sin no more. And person B Accuses them of claiming they are sinless. And says his is impossible.

person B is claiming he (person B) is sinless??

I claim to have Forgiven sin….
I claim to sin NO MORE…

Another speaking FOR me…accusing I am “saying”….”I HAVE NO SIN”….is gaslighting…
I have said no such thing.

I am not accountable for what OTHERS say “FOR ME”….

I have had other ACCUSE ME of SINNING AGAINST THEM…. So? WHO in such a scenario is QUALIFIED to FORGIVE ….. what they are claiming WAS A SIN AGAINST THEM…..Are “THEY” qualified to forgive SIN?

Not according to Scripture.

It is a bit confusing…..BECAUSE…..in the OT….
VIOLATION of Mosaic LAW was SIN AGAINST THE LAW….

I am a Gentile…never UNDER the OT LAW…never agreed to Abide by Mosaic Law…never legally affected when Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law….making the 600 * mosaic laws FULFILLED for the Tribes of ISRAEL, to no longer BE obligated UNDER the Mosaic Law.

I was naturally born IN SIN….my offering was to hear, learn about the Jews God and His Messiah, and Decide, Choose to Believe it or not….AND to choose to Call on Jesus and Freely Willingly Confess my true Heartful belief IN God and His Word….AND receive Gods Promise of Salvation and rebirth of my natural spirit by, Gods Seed, and promise my body to be Raise up (glorified / SINLESS)…at the TIME and MANNER of Gods choosing…and FOREVER TO BE WITH God.

Dealing with Trespasses Against me…or my Trespasses Against men…IS MY responsibility during my mortal life-time…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I claim to have Forgiven sin….
I claim to sin NO MORE…

Another speaking FOR me…accusing I am “saying”….”I HAVE NO SIN”….is gaslighting…
I have said no such thing.

I am not accountable for what OTHERS say “FOR ME”….

I have had other ACCUSE ME of SINNING AGAINST THEM…. So? WHO in such a scenario is QUALIFIED to FORGIVE ….. what they are claiming WAS A SIN AGAINST THEM…..Are “THEY” qualified to forgive SIN?

Not according to Scripture.

It is a bit confusing…..BECAUSE…..in the OT….
VIOLATION of Mosaic LAW was SIN AGAINST THE LAW….

I am a Gentile…never UNDER the OT LAW…never agreed to Abide by Mosaic Law…never legally affected when Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law….making the 600 * mosaic laws FULFILLED for the Tribes of ISRAEL, to no longer BE obligated UNDER the Mosaic Law.

I was naturally born IN SIN….my offering was to hear, learn about the Jews God and His Messiah, and Decide, Choose to Believe it or not….AND to choose to Call on Jesus and Freely Willingly Confess my true Heartful belief IN God and His Word….AND receive Gods Promise of Salvation and rebirth of my natural spirit by, Gods Seed, and promise my body to be Raise up (glorified / SINLESS)…at the TIME and MANNER of Gods choosing…and FOREVER TO BE WITH God.

Dealing with Trespasses Against me…or my Trespasses Against men…IS MY responsibility during my mortal life-time…

Glory to God,
Taken

The word sin “hamarte” Literally means to fall short.

if you claim you have no sin, you are decieved.

it does nto matter who you are.

for all have sinned and fall short. And I believe we all are still sinning and falling short.

 

[KUWN]

If you ARE : “Sav-ED”….How is it possible for you to CONTINUE Sinning?

Paul sinned after becoming an Apostle. See Rom 7

15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Many try to make this use of EIMI a Historical Present but the construct has no other examples of this use anywhere in the NT. If this were a historical present, it is the only use of a Historical Present using EIMI in the NT. All other Historical Presents are in the Third Person, this is in the First Person. If someone tried to take this as a Historical Present, the Greek of the NT offers no support.

Paul tells us the sin nature stays with us after salvation. He says he is not sinning, but it's sin in him. Here Paul talks about his present condition that he has to fight the good fight to avoid sin. This sin nature dwells in Christians and unbelievers alike. That is why we are advised to put to death our sin nature daily.

 

[Verily]

Heres a few verses I would add that might be helpful.

Jesus needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew "what was in" man John 2:25

1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

For "all have"

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It also says,

1John 1:8 If we say that we "have no" sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Seeing as Paul said, sin dwelleth in his members, but Jesus said,

John 8:34 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Paul said,

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Makes sense that on the one hand, no one can say that have not (in the past) sinned, for "all have sinned". No one can say that "have no" sin because as Jesus knew what was in a man, Paul speaks to the sin which "dwelleth in" him (in his members). However, Paul also speaks of the all effectual grace of God that comes by Jesus Christ (without whom we can do nothing) and tells us that sin itself shall not have dominion over us, and we are told not to let sin (in us) reign in our mortal bodies.

While we were yet sinners commends his love towards us

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

And at the same time it says

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin.

Says this also

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Titus 2:12 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Verily]

I have posted this before but I thought I would add it because it might be helpful, I love the contrasts in the scriptures in these things, just the way things are worded as they are.

For example,

1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

For all have sinned

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God;

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

As Paul said (Romans 7:17) sin dwelleth in me
(as there is no good thing in the flesh)

We are also not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of God
is in us (Romans 8:9). In light of the grace we are under, (Romans 6:14)
sin shall not have dominion over us

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace,
who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after that ye have suffered a while , make you perfect,
stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

Contrasting ceasing from sin and that which cannot cease from sin

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised
with covetous practices; cursed children:

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ,
the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother. (John 8:44)

John 8:34 Jesus answered them,
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.

 

[Taken]

Paul sinned after becoming an Apostle. See Rom 7

[He says he is not sinning, but it's sin in him.

From your commentary….
“Paul sinned…Paul did not sin”

In Romans 7; 23 times “the LAW” is referenced…

What does “the LAW” mean to a JEW?

What “specific SIN” does Scripture IDENTIFY Paul was “struggling” with?

Was Paul’s struggle…”regarding SIN according to the LAW,” he mentioned 23 times?

Are ‘you’ under Mosaic Law?

Are “you” paralleling / comparing yourself to Jewish Pharisee Saul/Paul and Jewish Laws ?

You seem to be arriving at an oxymoron result.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Verily]

Paul did say here

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

And when Paul was speaking here

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

He is not speaking of his present state (because he was spiritual) but rather he was relating to them according to their own present state (or as unto carnal)

The same as with the Corinthians

1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 

[Taken]

The word sin “hamarte” Literally means to fall short.

if you claim you have no sin, you are decieved.

it does nto matter who you are.

for all have sinned and fall short. And I believe we all are still sinning and falling short.

I have said the SAME…so what is your point to repeat that to me?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[KUWN]

Are ‘you’ under Mosaic Law?

Are “you” paralleling / comparing yourself to Jewish Pharisee Saul/Paul and Jewish Laws ?

You didn't defend your position, you just asserted it. So I really don't have much to say. The Mosaic Law became obsolete after Christ's earthly ministry, so, no, I am not under the Mosaic Law, nor was the Apostle Paul. Do you argue that Rom 7:

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

He is not speaking of his present state (because he was spiritual) but rather he was relating to them according to their own present state (or as unto carnal)

Read my post that claims otherwise. See #91 above.

 

[Taken]

You didn't defend your position, you just asserted it.

Correct. My position is that which applies to me and defended by scripture itself.

The Mosaic Law became obsolete after Christ's earthly ministry, so, no, I am not under the Mosaic Law, nor was the Apostle Paul. Do you argue that Rom 7:

Matt 5: (Jesus speaking)
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Acts 20: (regarding Paul observing the Law)
[16] For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

Paul was appointed by the Lord Jesus and accepted his appointment to Preach and Teach the Gospel to Jews, Gentiles and kings. (Acts 9:15)

Jew or Gentile, you have to decide what applies to “you” according to Gods Order and Way and the same applies to “others”…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[KUWN]

Correct. My position is that which applies to me and defended by scripture itself.



Matt 5: (Jesus speaking)
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Acts 20: (regarding Paul observing the Law)
[16] For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

Paul was appointed by the Lord Jesus and accepted his appointment to Preach and Teach the Gospel to Jews, Gentiles and kings. (Acts 9:15)

Jew or Gentile, you have to decide what applies to “you” according to Gods Order and Way and the same applies to “others”…

Glory to God,
Taken

You said:
Correct. My position is that which applies to me and defended by scripture itself.

Same here.

Heb 8.13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

No, but I have been sinning for 66 years.

Well, get born again... and filled with the Holy Spirit and cut it out!

Are you claiming you have zero self control (one of the fruit of the Spirit) and you might bust out in to sin at any given moment?

I've heard that some claim sin just happens and none of us can control whether we get in to sinful behavior or not.

Those are the kinda folks that end up on the funny farm are they go out and do mass shootings!

I don't hang around people like this since they obviously have devils in their lives and they are in agreement with demons.