Should wives submit to their husbands?

[Cristo Rei]

Should wives submit to their husbands?

How do you define the term "submit"?

What does/doesn't it involve?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes...and husbands should submit to their wives...in the love of Christ. Ephesians 5:21-25.

To submit means to do as the spouse desires, when it is asked of you, within reason.

Wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord.

So if the husband is asking of the wife something that is not the Lord's will, that is the exception to the rule.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Yes...and husbands should submit to their wives...in the love of Christ. Ephesians 5:21-25.

To submit means to do as the spouse desires, when it is asked of you, within reason.

Wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord.

So if the husband is asking of the wife something that is not the Lord's will, that it the exception to the rule.

Thank you, a well measured response which I agree with...

I would also like to add this. Often couples will disagree on things, it's inevitable. And often times a decision has to be made.
In these occasions the wife should submit to her husbands decision if an agreement cannot be reached

The reason I brought this up is because i was watching a show where this guy was in a shopping center asking women that very question
About 15 of 20 women replied with a degree of indignation like "what... no way... not me"

It's a major contributor to many divorces these days and reflects the strong desire that many women have to control men
This innate desire along with low empathy towards men in general is why I believe that women should not be leaders as stated in the Bible
The vilification of men and the lies feminists use support this. Its all me me me and men are toxic and useless and this and that
Im not saying all women are like that but men are more empathetic towards women. The feminist movement wouldn't of taken off otherwise

 

[Rita]

Hi Cristo,
Although I recognise that there are many women who want control, I think the majority of women don’t want the control that some men seem to think they have the right to have. Control and submission has been abused over the years, you only have to see how many women end up in shelters as victims of violence.
I had not problem with my ex being head of the family, even though he was not a Christian, however there were times when I had to make a choice and stand up for my beliefs as some of his decisions did not sit right with my conscience. Other times I had to accept the choices he made , even though they were not wise ones. We ended up reaping good and bad things at times. I valued my role as a wife and mother, but despite his unfaithfulness, he wasn’t really controlling over me as such. He did control the finances, and always thought of himself.
Submission is okay when it is mutually accepted and understood within a marriage, and when it is based on biblical principles ( not just the part of Peter where it tells you about it ) but there is a very thin line between submission and control - control can be very subtle !Rita

 

[marksman]

Yes...and husbands should submit to their wives...in the love of Christ. Ephesians 5:21-25.

To submit means to do as the spouse desires, when it is asked of you, within reason.

Wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord.

So if the husband is asking of the wife something that is not the Lord's will, that it the exception to the rule.

21 subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ.

22 Wives, [be in subjection] unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the church, [being] himself the saviour of the body.

24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so [let] the wives also [be] to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Where does it say that husbands are to submit to their wives?

 

[justbyfaith]

Where does it say that husbands are to submit to their wives?

v.21 (try the kjv).

 

[marksman]

v.21 (try the kjv).

v21 is not talking about husbands and wives. It is talking about the congregation in general. v21 is finishing one section of instruction and v22 is the start of another section of instruction about husbands and wives, so v21 is not applicable to the husband and wife teaching.

 

[Sabertooth]

Here is the problem that I have seen though the years in this matter.

Scenario #1
God says,
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." Ephesians 5:22-24 NKJV
Husband: Wife, the Bible say that you gotta submit to me...!
Wife (feeling agitated & belittled) is resistant to the idea.
Husband gets frustrated because his wife will not submit no matter how many times he hits her over the head with his Bible, or how clever his arguments might be. And he doesn't move forward in his own walk because he is distracted by an unwilling wife...

Scenario #2
The wife is reading her Bible and comes across the above verses. At first, she finds them to be troubling so she prays and asks the Holy Spirit to clarify their intent.
She expresses her objections to Him.
He answers those objections and begins to teach her heart how they can be obeyed in Him while still retaining her dignity.
She begins to embrace His teaching, even if it doesn't look to fit a "cold" reading of those verses...

The problem:
A husband does not have the grace to "digest" the verses that are exclusively written to his wive. Therefor, he cannot be an effective middleman in that process. Attempting to do so just blocks the depth that the Holy Spirit wants to (and can) bring in the matter.

Another wife who may be farther along in that process, however, IS graced to "digest" those verses and can add insight.

All of this is true for husbands & husbandly verses, too (like Ephesians 5:25-32).

And neither spouse should wait for the other to show recognizable improvement before they embrace their own Biblical directives. Even if the other spouse NEVER obeys said Scriptures (in the Holy Spirit), the one that does will be better off for it.

Yes, God wants wives to submit to their husbands, but men need to get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit do His thing (in her AND in him)!

 

[marksman]

Hi Cristo,
Although I recognise that there are many women who want control, I think the majority of women don’t want the control that some men seem to think they have the right to have. Control and submission has been abused over the years, you only have to see how many women end up in shelters as victims of violence.
I had not problem with my ex being head of the family, even though he was not a Christian, however there were times when I had to make a choice and stand up for my beliefs as some of his decisions did not sit right with my conscience. Other times I had to accept the choices he made , even though they were not wise ones. We ended up reaping good and bad things at times. I valued my role as a wife and mother, but despite his unfaithfulness, he wasn’t really controlling over me as such. He did control the finances, and always thought of himself.
Submission is okay when it is mutually accepted and understood within a marriage, and when it is based on biblical principles ( not just the part of Peter where it tells you about it ) but there is a very thin line between submission and control - control can be very subtle !Rita

Yes Rita submission is quite different to control. Domestic violence starts with control and ends up as submission where one person wants the other to submit to them so they can control them so it means they have no freedom to be themselves.

When both parties are believers, they do not lose out if they follow the word and love their wives and submit to their husbands. The current church has imbibed feminist demands and are giving wives equal standing with their husbands in church leadership. A big mistake. Nowhere in scripture can you find that authorized notwithstanding Debra, Junia, and Priscilla.

Submitting against your will can reap benefits. I heard the story of a teenage girl who got saved and frequented a local church. All went well until her parents banned her from attending the church which she did. After about a year the parents changed their mind and let her go again. What caused the change? She never complained and was a model daughter so the parents had no reason to stop her attending the church.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Although I recognise that there are many women who want control, I think the majority of women don’t want the control that some men seem to think they have the right to have. Control and submission has been abused over the years, you only have to see how many women end up in shelters as victims of violence.

True, i did say not all women are like that. It seems to be a more prevalent behavior in younger women
I would imagine that there surely would be some men who abuse that Bible verse and their wives which is sad.
Submission does not equal slavery or servitude

 

[CadyandZoe]

Should wives submit to their husbands?

How do you define the term "submit"?

What does/doesn't it involve?

In my translation of Ephesians, at 5:22 I have this.

Wives [be subordinate] to your husbands as [the husbands are] to the Lord.

Paul isn't saying that wives are to be "submissive" in the way we mean it today, which has negative connotations in our society and seems related to servitude and coercive force. The wife is to be subordinate to her husband the way that Eve was the "ezer" to Adam. Bear in mind that the Bible uses the same Hebrew word to describe God as the "ezer" to Israel.

This tells us that "subordination" is simply a matter of the role one is playing, and says nothing about worth, status, class, or value. God is holding Adam (and all husbands) ultimately responsible for what takes place in the family, and the wife is to be his "helper" with regard to that responsibility.

My wife is street smart, and wise in many other ways. And she is certainly better with people than I am, even though I try very hard. I would be a fool if I didn't receive her opinion and take things in her direction if her ideas are better then mine. She is a great help to me because I encourage her to participate and offer her opinion any time she has something on her mind. I listen to her and change things if she is correct.

She simply needs to know that God will discipline me, not her, if things aren't the way he wants them to be. I am responsible.

 

[Cristo Rei]

In my translation of Ephesians, at 5:22 I have this.

Wives [be subordinate] to your husbands as [the husbands are] to the Lord.

Paul isn't saying that wives are to be "submissive" in the way we mean it today, which has negative connotations in our society and seems related to servitude and coercive force. The wife is to be subordinate to her husband the way that Eve was the "ezer" to Adam. Bear in mind that the Bible uses the same Hebrew word to describe God as the "ezer" to Israel.

This tells us that "subordination" is simply a matter of the role one is playing, and says nothing about worth, status, class, or value. God is holding Adam (and all husbands) ultimately responsible for what takes place in the family, and the wife is to be his "helper" with regard to that responsibility.

My wife is street smart, and wise in many other ways. And she is certainly better with people than I am, even though I try very hard. I would be a fool if I didn't receive her opinion and take things in her direction if her ideas are better then mine. She is a great help to me because I encourage her to participate and offer her opinion any time she has something on her mind. I listen to her and change things if she is correct.

She simply needs to know that God will discipline me, not her, if things aren't the way he wants them to be. I am responsible.

I agree with everything u say there. What do u mean by "my" translation?
Submitting definitely has negative connotations but is subordinate any better. This is the google definition

Adjective - lower in rank or position
Noun - a person under the authority or control of another within an organization
Verb - treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

Im not sure but I think some women would still wig out upon hearing the term subordinate
They would definitely wig out upon reading those definitions

But like I said your explanation of it was all good

 

[Randy Kluth]

Should wives submit to their husbands?

How do you define the term "submit"?

What does/doesn't it involve?

There is a reason this is difficult in this day and age. In many societies, the superior strength of men is relied on to establish order in the family, which is, I think, unfortunate. Relationship should be a matter of choice--not manipulation. And manipulation brings resentment and a loss of respect.

But God made the male first to show that there must be order. And the order isn't a matter of selfish preferences, but rather, a guide in making decisions. Generally, the man, having generally the major requirement to work for sustenance, has to decide where to work, and has to build the house, and maintain the property, etc. A wife's insistence that things go according to her preference can get in the way of this.

A good wife may be able to show that her job earns more, and argue that her job is more lucrative and therefore beneficial to the family. A good husband would then decide to go her way. But it is still the man who is making the final decision, to bring order to the family.

This is a difficult thing to ask of a wife, because she is following an imperfect, mistake-prone man. But without this order, there will be chaos, or simply a hollow shell of a family relationship.

The female was created as the source of reproduction. Her job, therefore, is most often built in with the purpose of raising children and providing emotional support for them while the father is out working. Obviously, not all women are married or have children, and this would require a different discussion.

In today's world, however, marriage has failed, and women have to learn how to do the job of both father and mother, disciplinarian and emotional support. I wouldn't fault a woman for developing a career, particularly when women are not having many children anymore. A couple working together, with good babysitters, can be very prosperous, and also raise their one or two children well.

Today it's become very difficult to have several children without both parents working. But with a public school system we do have a built in baby sitter, assuming someone is ensuring that the education they're receiving can be mitigated by some home instruction, as well.

I agree with the above, that husband and wife should be "submitting to one another," although this is distinct from the submission of the wife to the husband, in terms of leadership in the family. But it is equally important. If the husband is truly submissive to the wife's emotional needs, no decision he ever makes will be without consulting her own desires. The end product is cooperation, patience, and productivity.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The problem:
A husband does not have the grace to "digest" the verses that are exclusively written to his wive. Therefor, he cannot be an effective middleman in that process. Attempting to do so just blocks the depth that the Holy Spirit wants to (and can) bring in the matter.

Another wife who may be farther along in that process, however, IS graced to "digest" those verses and can add insight.

All of this is true for husbands & husbandly verses, too (like Ephesians 5:25-32).

And neither spouse should wait for the other to show recognizable improvement before they embrace their own Biblical directives. Even if the other spouse NEVER obeys said Scriptures (in the Holy Spirit), the one that does will be better off for it.

Yes, God wants wives to submit to their husbands, but men need to get out of the way and let the Holy Spirit do His thing (in her AND in him)!

Yes. They do need to get out of the way of the Spirit. Most men walk way too much in the flesh and in fleshly, self-serving desires, which would agitate any spiritual woman who was told she needed to submit to it. It becomes evident to many wives that their husbands' concerns are often far less for her spiritual welfare and more about "obedience" to his earthly desires. But the top priority of a husband in scripture is to cleanse her with the washing of the water of the word, just as Christ's top priority with the Church is to teach her through His Spirit. How many Christian husbands focus upon teaching their wives solid, powerful exposition from the word as their main responsibility before God? Some do, but most do not, and yet they quickly point to the wife's responsibility to "obey their husbands in all things." Why? Because it is a lot easier to pass the buck than live up to the expectations God places upon oneself, and one's own responsibilities.

I have to say here that it has absolutely grieved my heart a few times to hear sermons from men demanding ultra-strict obedience from women in their congregations. I thought, "Dear heavens... poor women who have to sit through this mess because they were born into it, or made very poor choices in the men they chose to marry..."

Should wives submit to their husbands in all things? Yes, regardless of what the world may think of it or not. The reason is because when a Christian woman agrees to marry a Christian man, she is agreeing to become a reflection of the church in everything she does, and the man is agreeing to become a reflection of Christ Jesus in everything he does. But that actually lays the weight of the burden upon the man, not the woman, one few men seem to comprehend they have even agreed to. He has agreed to become her teacher, and be inerrant in his teachings just as Christ is. He has agreed to become her Lord, and be inerrant in every decision he makes over her life just as Christ does. He has agreed to become her husband, and exercise stewardship over her life such that he maximizes all the gifts and callings God has given her just as Christ does, so that she becomes absolutely everything she was called and created to be in Christ. If he fails in any of this, then he fails. But being human does not excuse him. He has made the decision and accepted the responsibility, and will be held accountable to God for it.

It's a humbling thing when understood properly, and if more Christian men did and accepted full responsibility, maybe their wives would be a lot more willing to submit to them in all things, seeing the incredible burden that has been laid upon their shoulders to make all the right choices, and do and say all the right things in leading the relationship.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I agree with everything u say there. What do u mean by "my" translation?
Submitting definitely has negative connotations but is subordinate any better. This is the google definition

Adjective - lower in rank or position
Noun - a person under the authority or control of another within an organization
Verb - treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

Im not sure but I think some women would still wig out upon hearing the term subordinate
They would definitely wig out upon reading those definitions

But like I said your explanation of it was all good

I was referring to my personal translation. I translated certain books as a Bible Study Exercise.

I don't know, since I am not a woman. But I wonder if they would object, say, to being lower in military rank? Subordinate is as close as I could get in English. We are looking for a word to indicate the idea that a wife's role is to support her husband in his life project. God told Adam to name all the animals, and if he continued this task, Eve would help him in that effort.

The problem with our culture is that it tends to have everything upside down. In a sense a wife who becomes a mother has the most important, and most significant task of all. There is nothing more important to the family and society than raising children to become wise, kind, generous, loyal, faithful, productive adults.

Another way our culture has erred is this idea that a lower rank equates to a lower value, less significant, less important. Going back to Genesis again, we learn that all human beings are significant and important because we are all made in God's image. A wife isn't any less significant than her husband. She isn't any less worthy of love than her husband; she isn't any less worthy of salvation than her husband; she isn't any less of a person than her husband. She is equal to her husband in all ways that survive into the next age.

Right?

 

[Cristo Rei]

I was referring to my personal translation. I translated certain books as a Bible Study Exercise.

I don't know, since I am not a woman. But I wonder if they would object, say, to being lower in military rank? Subordinate is as close as I could get in English. We are looking for a word to indicate the idea that a wife's role is to support her husband in his life project. God told Adam to name all the animals, and if he continued this task, Eve would help him in that effort.

The problem with our culture is that it tends to have everything upside down. In a sense a wife who becomes a mother has the most important, and most significant task of all. There is nothing more important to the family and society than raising children to become wise, kind, generous, loyal, faithful, productive adults.

Another way our culture has erred is this idea that a lower rank equates to a lower value, less significant, less important. Going back to Genesis again, we learn that all human beings are significant and important because we are all made in God's image. A wife isn't any less significant than her husband. She isn't any less worthy of love than her husband; she isn't any less worthy of salvation than her husband; she isn't any less of a person than her husband. She is equal to her husband in all ways that survive into the next age.

Right?

True. Maybe a better term would be to follow his lead but i don't know

U say u translated books. What languages do u know?

 

[justbyfaith]

v21 is not talking about husbands and wives. It is talking about the congregation in general. v21 is finishing one section of instruction and v22 is the start of another section of instruction about husbands and wives, so v21 is not applicable to the husband and wife teaching.

That is disputable.

I find that after having submitted to my wife's wishes on certain things, thus setting an example for her to follow, that she is more apt to submit to me when I give a final word.

She even called me "lord" once without an ounce of sarcasm.

I believe that loving our wives as Christ loves the church means that we do our best to fulfill the requests of our wives when they are made to us; for is that not the relationship of Christ to the church?

He answers our prayers.

Thus it is said that Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords.

We are kings and lords in that we have power with the Lord in prayer; He does what we ask when we ask it, any time it may be that we ask Him for something that is according to His will.

So yes, there is submitting to the wife within reason, just as there is submitting to the husband within reason. Fulfilling the desires of the other person is a major aspect of love. And God commands the husband to "love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it."

So, personally, I submit to my wife on certain things in our relationship out of love for her. And also to set the example of how I want to be treated by her.

She can find no reason to object to my request to submit to me, on those rare occasions when I need to pull rank, because I submit to her on most things when she is not pulling any kind of rank.

 

[CadyandZoe]

True. Maybe a better term would be to follow his lead but i don't know

U say u translated books. What languages do u know?

I only know English. But I study NT Greek when I get the chance, and I attempt to translate various books. I have translated Ephesians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, and Colossians. Don't get me wrong, I am not claiming to be an expert or anything.

I was in the middle of translating James, when I decided to spend some time making YouTube Videos, working my way towards a series on "The Day of The Lord."

Thanks for asking.

 

[Enoch111]

Should wives submit to their husbands? How do you define the term "submit"? What does/doesn't it involve?

You should simply go by what is written in the Bible. And the definition of submit* is also provided.

*STRONGS NT 5293: ὑποτάσσω (huptasso)
ὑποτάσσω: 1 aorist ὑπεταξα; passive, perfect ὑποτεταγμαι; 2 aorist ὑπεταγην; 2 future ὑποταγήσομαι; present middle ὑποτάσσομαι; to arrange under, to subordinate; to subject, put in subjection: τίνι τί or τινα, 1 Corinthians 15:27{c}; Hebrews 2:5;Philippians 3:21; passive, Romans 8:20 (see διά B. II. 1 b.): 1 Corinthians 15:27{b} and following; 1 Peter 3:22; τινα or τί ὑπό τούς πόδας τίνος, 1 Corinthians 15:27{a};Ephesians 1:22; ὑποκάτω τῶν ποδῶν τίνος, Hebrews 2:8; middle to subject oneself, to obey; to submit to one's control; to yield to one's admonition or advice: absolutely,Romans 13:5; 1 Corinthians 14:34 (cf. Buttmann, § 151, 30); τινα, Luke 2:51; Luke 10:17, 20; Romans 8:7; Romans 13:1; 1 Corinthians 14:32; 1 Corinthians 16:16; Ephesians 5:21f (but in Ephesians 5:22, G T WH text omit; Tr marginal reading brackets ὑποτάσσεσθε)...

Christians should note that the Critical Text of Westcott & Hort (and all such texts to date) have omitted the word "submit" from Ephesians 5:22 as noted by Thayer. This is a corruption of the Received Text, but not a single English translation has followed this nonsensical reading "Wives to your own husbands".

 

[Cristo Rei]

You should simply go by what is written in the Bible

Thanks. I do go by what is written. I simply asked the question cos I was interested to see other peoples responses

Christians should note that the Critical Text of Westcott & Hort (and all such texts to date) have omitted the word "submit" from Ephesians 5:22 as noted by Thayer. This is a corruption of the Received Text, but not a single English translation has followed this nonsensical reading "Wives to your own husbands"

Really... That is shockingly scandalous