Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

[St. SteVen]

Among other things, it implies predestination.

I'm not sure if predestination can be avoided.
And it carries an ugly flip-side for those that believe in ECT. (eternal conscious torment)

God has his Elect, whom he predestined for life. (now and in the afterlife)
The standard doctrine infers that those that he didn't predestine for life are therefore
predestined for death. (now and in the afterlife)

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[St. SteVen]

It you want to be pedantic about verb tenses, it just says we're not CURRENTLY being judged. End-of-life judgment, that's handled by a different department.

What does that say about the others? Are they CURRENTLY being judged?

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[Lambano]

What does that say about the others? Are they CURRENTLY being judged?

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It says they have already been judged. Do you think the verdict was favorable?

 

[Behold]

What does that say about the others? Are they CURRENTLY being judged?

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WHen a person is un unbelief, never born again...they are IN THEIR SIN>.. = unforgiven.

That meas they are JUDGED already........... John 3:36

Salvation is not only to be forgiven......its to be released from John 3:36

 

[St. SteVen]

It says they have already been judged. Do you think the verdict was favorable?

Since it is in reference to unbelievers, it would not be favorable.
The question is what happens next?

Sentencing? Appeal? Correction? Mercy?

- Damnationism says they will burn forever.
- Annihilationism says they will be destroyed.
- Universalism says they will be corrected and restored.

Which choice is a triumph of grace?

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[Behold]

Since it is in reference to unbelievers, it would not be favorable.
The question is what happens next?


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What happens next, is

"Go into all the world and PREACH"..

= THE GOSPEL..

"all that believe in Jesus shall be saved"... "as many as received JESUS... God gives to them power to become a son/daughter of God".

Notice that this is not automatic..... Mr. Universalist Heresy.

And.. SO>... if they BELIEVE, then God will give them Eternal Salvation.

If they wont, then they chose to stay here..

John 3:36

 

[Ritajanice]

The Gospel can’t birth you by divine heart revelation.

Only the Spirit of God can do that...hearing the gospel, is not the same as being Born Of The Spirit...if it was God would have said so, we are Born Of God and his seed remains in us.

It’s because of the gospel that we can be Born Of The Spirit....how would we know that his seed remains in us?

 

[Behold]

The Gospel can’t birth you by divine heart revelation.

Nobody teaches that the Gospel birth's anyone,

The Gospel is a message.
When its BELIEVED by Someone's FAITH........God takes that faith..........and does this.

YOUR, OUR... "FAITH, is counted by God".

And then.....>God forgives our sin, and THEN>........now forgiven...........God Joins Himself to us in Spiritual UNION< = BORN... again.

C'mon @Ritajanice ..

This is not that hard to understand.

 

[Ritajanice]

He that beliveth on the Son, are those who have been Born Of The Spirit.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[Ritajanice]

Nobody teaches that the Gospel birth's anyone,

The Gospel is a message.
When its BELIEVED by Someone's FAITH........God takes that faith..........and does this.

Believing the Gospel message by a preacher, does not birth our spirit.


YOUR, OUR... "FAITH, is counted by God".

Faith is a gift from God, just as his word says...there is no faith in Jesus, not until we are Born Of The Spirit.

And then.....>God forgives our sin, and THEN>........now forgiven...........God Joins Himself to us in Spiritual UNION< = BORN... again.

God does not say, he joins himself to us, once again your man made opinion.

C'mon @Ritajanice ..

This is not that hard to understand.

 

[Behold]

He that beliveth on the Son, are those who have been Born Of The Spirit.

The believing is what the BELIEVER does.. .when I tell them about Jesus.

They dont believe it before its heard........and God does not cause them to believe, before they have heard.

"the hearing of Faith"........is.... when they hear it.. The Message.. The Gospel.......its so that they can then believe it.

This is not hard to understand @Ritajanice

 

[Ritajanice]

The believing is what the BELIEVER does.. .when I tell them about Jesus.

You can tell them about Jesus.

Only Gods witness can bring their spirit Alive, by the supernatural divine heart revelation.

There is no power in you, all you can do is witness, or plant a seed , only the Spirit can birth our spirit.

They dont believe it before its heard........and God does not cause them to believe, before they have heard.

Hearing has nothing to do with the supernatural divine rebirth.

"the hearing of Faith"........is.... when they hear it.. The Message.. The Gospel.......its so that they can then believe it.

This is not hard to understand @Ritajanice

Nothing to do with being Born Of The Spirit.

A Born Again was chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world..to become Born Of The Spirit.

That’s the part you don’t understand...you teach work based salvation...

You cannot teach someone how to become Born Again, you can explain how the Spirit brings us to salvation..by showing them what is written..you must be birthed by the Living Spirit, then the word confirms this.

You teaching rebirth is by your own works.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Greek interlinear uses the word judged. Obviously unbelievers will be evaluated from a different POV.
But there are still countless billions that have never had the opportunity to accept or reject Christ.
No one will reject Christ in the afterlife. Absolute love is irresistible. (when everything else is taken out of the way)

1 John 3:2 NIV
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known.
But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

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Unbelievers will be judged.

anyone not written in the book of life will be cast out.

Yes. we will be like he is.

Thats not everyone, an unbeliever is not a child of God

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The example, it seems, was given
to prove that God could never forgive such a horrible deed. That justice was demanded.
And by inference, ultimate redemption and salvation could not be the result.
This would not be justice, in human eyes. Therein lies the problem.

Love the above. Consider Saul/Paul who stood by and consent to Stephens stoning. And all those who stoned Stephen calling upon the Lord, laid their coats at a young Saul’s feet.

it makes consider your post on what is Justice? Triumph in the above, we read and see is The Lord appears to Saul on the road and ask “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” We have read the rest of Paul’s Journey. Is this Justice for Stephen who cried “God does not dwell in houses made of stone!” Galatians 2:17-21 But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Far from it! [18] For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a wrongdoer. [19] For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live for God. [20] I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. [21] I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, if somebody doesn't believe, it's some third-party's fault?

I belive God holds people accountable who lead others astray, I also believe he says so in his word

You want to explore the ramifications of that statement?

If someone does not repent and believe because a Universalist tells him he is saved anyway. I would not want to be the universalist who led that person astray on the day of judgment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's enough to debunk hell right there.
- God is a God of love
- willing that no one should perish

Willing that no one should perish, but unable to see that his will is done on earth as it is in heaven?

John 3

for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that everyone will be saved. and no one has to believe.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him will not perish. but live forever.

You tell me which of the above to statements ar correct according to the words of John in chapter 3 and verse 16

Why would a God of love create hell?

A god of Justice created hell

Hell, as described, is the most hateful and sadistic place imaginable.
And those sent there are being punished for refusing a free gift?

And? He gave people a way out. he will be justified when he sends them their, because they had a way out

Willing that no one should perish, equals creating a place where perishing is eternal?
What's wrong with this picture?

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Willing that no one will perish

so should God be a dictator and force everyone to believe. Like satan wants the world to see him.

or should God be a God of love, and not force anyone. and leave them to their own belief?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Krino" in the present tense in the first instance implies that those who believe are not being judged

No actually it is BEMA.

Krino is the great white throne. No believers will be present at that judgment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The definition of mercy, which God is full of, would be overruling "justice".

If he forces his salvation on people who say no.

is God a dictator? Have you read the bible at all? How God punishes evil..

Compassion and mercy.
God's compassion provides us with good things that we don't deserve.
God's mercy provides us with forgiveness for the things we do deserve.


Is that what you call spiritual extortion? Believe or burn.

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I just repeat Gods word.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

Now if you want to call condemnation burning, thats fine. But do not sit there and say God did not say a non believer will continue to be condemned for eternity unless they repent and believe.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks.
It begs a lot of questions.
Will believers NOT be judged? (evaluated)
No rewards for wood, hay, and stubble.

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once again, that is a bema judgment.

it is not a krino

 

[St. SteVen]

... it makes consider your post on what is Justice?

Indeed.
Thanks for your post. The example of Saul/Paul is a good one.
Was God just with Paul? (yes)

The human view of justice revolves around revenge. (a sin)
Which Christians are happy to accuse God of.

Is Revenge a Sin?

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God. For us, but not for God? Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? Many would bristle at that question. Why? We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly...

www.christianityboard.com

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