Should sin triumph over grace in the end?

[St. SteVen]

I admire you, because you post what you believe the word of God to be saying, no one can get in your way of doing that either, I’m led exactly the same way that you are.

Thanks.
At some point I decided that I would rather be wrong about UR than to be right about Damnationism.

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to God for having such a high regard for his character.

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[Ritajanice]

Thanks.
At some point I decided that I would rather be wrong about UR than to be right about Damnationism.

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to God for having such a high regard for his character.

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Brother, God also knows your heart, same as he knows mine, only look to him to lead you into his truth..

I’m sure none of us aren’t without error at times, but, only the Spirit can show us our error.

Sadly , imo, some want us to bow down to their teachings by force....that is 100% not of God imo...

 

[St. SteVen]

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to God for having such a high regard for his character.

What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?​

What sort of monster would create such a thing? The most sadist tyrant imaginable. How does it work and what is the purpose? There is no purpose other than eternal torment on the grandest scale. We have all experienced a burn at some point in our lives. Maybe we touched the stove. We...

God's character informs the purpose of his justice​

AND your definition of God's purpose in justice defines the character you are assigning to Him. We can say that God is both loving and just without demeaning His good character. His justice CANNOT negate His love. - And his love CANNOT negate His justice. Therefore, the purpose of God's...

The Character of God - Reader Poll​

Please vote and comment. Thanks /

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character​

Probably one of the most important aspects of Ultimate Redemption (UR) is God's character. cc: @GRACE ambassador --- but, all are invited to join the discussion. Ultimate Redemption focuses on the mercy of God in judgement. God's ultimate ministry of reconciliation. The restoration of all...

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[Eternally Grateful]

St. SteVen said:
Yes, I believe everyone is already saved due to the complete work of Christ on the cross.

Honestly, why is that a problem? Sorry that you still don't understand.

Why is it a problem?

Because as I said. why bother repenting and believing in Jesus if I am saved already. Eat drink and be merry, Live inb all the sin I want. reject God and give him the finger or do whatever. Your already saved.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

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Yes. And he did bring it to everyone

But what part of he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already do you fail to comprehend.

God will not force anyone to recieve his salvation. If people reject him, Although their sins will nto be charged against them, Their unbelief will

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dang, @St. SteVen, I didn't know you had that power. Sheesh, you'd think everybody would be nicer to you if they knew you could send them to the infernal regions.

well he can keep them from heaven by his false gospel and universalism.

So if they are not going to heaven because of unbelief. where would they go?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was born again in 1974 by the grace of God who baptized me in His love and holiness, there are no words to describe, it was impossible (so it felt) to say no and I turned 180 degrees instantly. I am not into universalism although I don't exclude the possibility there will be second chances in afterlife and Filipp 2:9-11 is one of those passages that might (emphasis added) hint to that.

It says they will bow

it does not say they will be saved.

Needless to say I am so thankful the Lord touched me and that I don't need universalism at all as a free card to sin because once you received the indwelling Holy Spirit (per John 16:8) you don't want to sin any longer.

Amen

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you into sinless perfection ?

I believe She is a sinless perfection calvinist..

Just read what she says carefully..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks.
At some point I decided that I would rather be wrong about UR than to be right about Damnationism.

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to God for having such a high regard for his character.

[

If your wrong

How many will spend eternity in hell. because they hear5d your message and said I do not need to repent and believe. I am saved already?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?​

What sort of monster would create such a thing? The most sadist tyrant imaginable. How does it work and what is the purpose? There is no purpose other than eternal torment on the grandest scale. We have all experienced a burn at some point in our lives. Maybe we touched the stove. We...

1. It says God is a God of justice. He created Hell for satan and the 1/3 of the angelic beings who left and followed satan.
2. It says God is a God of justice. because those on earth who follow satan will join him in hell.
3. It says God is a God of love, who willing that no one should perish. came to earth as a man. Lived a life free of sin. and paid the debt for every man woman and child who ever lived
4. It also says God is a God of love. as he will not force his gift of salvation on everyone. He gives us all a chance to repent. and turn to hiom and say Yes God. I want your death applied to me. or No God. I love my sin. (see romans 1)

God's character informs the purpose of his justice​

AND your definition of God's purpose in justice defines the character you are assigning to Him. We can say that God is both loving and just without demeaning His good character. His justice CANNOT negate His love. - And his love CANNOT negate His justice. Therefore, the purpose of God's...

Yes. Gods love can not over rule his justice.

But it can make a way. But love does not force his will on a person who does not want it. if a person would rather live 70 years in sin. and spend eternity in Hel.. well thats that persons choice. god will do all he can to change his mind, but that person will get what he asked for

 

[Lambano]

well he can keep them from heaven by his false gospel and universalism.

So if they are not going to heaven because of unbelief. where would they go?

So, if somebody doesn't believe, it's some third-party's fault?

You want to explore the ramifications of that statement?

 

[MatthewG]

I was born again in 1974 by the grace of God who baptized me in His love and holiness, there are no words to describe, it was impossible (so it felt) to say no and I turned 180 degrees instantly. I am not into universalism although I don't exclude the possibility there will be second chances in afterlife and Filipp 2:9-11 is one of those passages that might (emphasis added) hint to that.

Needless to say I am so thankful the Lord touched me and that I don't need universalism at all as a free card to sin because once you received the indwelling Holy Spirit (per John 16:8) you don't want to sin any longer.

Hello @ProDeo,

I’m the same way about the second chances in the afterlife. Was speaking about it to myself earlier before heading to work.

“I’m not into universalism there is only one way to God, there is separation made known in the Revelation. There may be second chances but what is left of that person and the result is unknown, however they will go through the fire, which is the fire that comes from Yahavah, and in that fire they will find the one whom saves; Yeshua.”

I was born in 1991, I’ve heard all kinds of things from the pulpit; from damnation to change your ways or you’ll end up in hell; only to come find out Yeshua has overcame these things and has already restored all things to the way they were spiritually when Adam and Eve walked around.

It’s now a choice; and I don’t believe God has ever forced anyone to submit to him; he has even allowed his angels in heaven to have free will to leave their once held positions, therefore; not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of heaven after this life; there will be some outside the kingdom; even some whom professed Gods name but looked to themselves as the one who saves them and not the victorious work of the Lord Yeshua.

Eat from the tree of life which brings forth spiritual life, or eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Ritajanice]

For someone to teach that another’s teachings can stop someone from becoming Born Of The Spirit.

Is pretty narrow minded to be honest/ tunnel vision/ one way thinking, they have Imo no understanding of the Mighty power of God.

They limit God because they can only understand in their own human capacity, they lack spiritual knowledge..they are still carnal in their mindset,

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

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14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[St. SteVen]

But what part of he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already do you fail to comprehend.

The Greek interlinear uses the word judged. Obviously unbelievers will be evaluated from a different POV.
But there are still countless billions that have never had the opportunity to accept or reject Christ.
No one will reject Christ in the afterlife. Absolute love is irresistible. (when everything else is taken out of the way)

1 John 3:2 NIV
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known.
But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

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[St. SteVen]

3. It says God is a God of love, who willing that no one should perish.

That's enough to debunk hell right there.
- God is a God of love
- willing that no one should perish

Willing that no one should perish, but unable to see that his will is done on earth as it is in heaven?

Why would a God of love create hell?
Hell, as described, is the most hateful and sadistic place imaginable.
And those sent there are being punished for refusing a free gift?

Willing that no one should perish, equals creating a place where perishing is eternal?
What's wrong with this picture?

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[MatthewG]

Hello @ProDeo,

I’m the same way about the second chances in the afterlife. Was speaking about it to myself earlier before heading to work.

“I’m not into universalism there is only one way to God, there is separation made known in the Revelation. There may be second chances but what is left of that person and the result is unknown, however they will go through the fire, which is the fire that comes from Yahavah, and in that fire they will find the one whom saves; Yeshua.”

I was born in 1991, I’ve heard all kinds of things from the pulpit; from damnation to change your ways or you’ll end up in hell; only to come find out Yeshua has overcame these things and has already restored all things to the way they were spiritually when Adam and Eve walked around.

It’s now a choice; and I don’t believe God has ever forced anyone to submit to him; he has even allowed his angels in heaven to have free will to leave their once held positions, therefore; not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of heaven after this life; there will be some outside the kingdom; even some whom professed Gods name but looked to themselves as the one who saves them and not the victorious work of the Lord Yeshua.

Eat from the tree of life which brings forth spiritual life, or eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Hello @ProDeo,

If I’m wrong about it though I’ll be okay with that; but due to Yahavahs freedom of choice it’s hard to suggest that he will force anyone to love him. And the Bible implicates a separation, so I don’t believe everyone is saved to the Kingdom of Heaven upon leaving this life; all will be raised from resurrection of condemnation, of life, and a better resurrection of the rest all merited by Yahavah. And I don’t think the condemned are suffering and are just fine without God in their life outside of the kingdom.

 

[Lambano]

The Greek interlinear uses the word judged.

"Krino" in the present tense in the first instance implies that those who believe are not being judged. The past perfect tense in the second instance implies that the judgment of the ones who do not believe has already been completed and the verdict is final. Are you sure you want to go with that argument? Among other things, it implies predestination.

 

[St. SteVen]

Gods love can not over rule his justice.

The definition of mercy, which God is full of, would be overruling "justice".

Compassion and mercy.
God's compassion provides us with good things that we don't deserve.
God's mercy provides us with forgiveness for the things we do deserve.

love does not force his will on a person who does not want it.

Is that what you call spiritual extortion? Believe or burn.

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[St. SteVen]

"Krino" in the present tense in the first instance implies that those who believe are not being judged. The past perfect tense in the second instance implies that the judgment of the ones who do not believe has already been completed and the verdict is final. Are you sure you want to go with that argument? Among other things, it implies predestination.

Thanks.
It begs a lot of questions.
Will believers NOT be judged? (evaluated)
No rewards for wood, hay, and stubble.

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[Behold]

Thanks.
At some point I decided that I would rather be wrong about UR than to be right about Damnationism.

So you chose to be deceived...on purpose.
Thats not very smart., is it.

 

[Lambano]

Thanks.
It begs a lot of questions.
Will believers NOT be judged? (evaluated)
No rewards for wood, hay, and stubble.

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It you want to be pedantic about verb tenses, it just says we're not CURRENTLY being judged. End-of-life judgment, that's handled by a different department.

My group was responsible for launching the rockets. Where the rockets come down, that was handled by a different department. - Wernher Von Braun.