Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Hidden In Him]

No sir, I was asking about Galatians chapter 5. What your thoughts on it as a whole was on comparing to Anna and Sapari?

My first quote was from Galatians 5. Was there a particular verse you were asking about maybe?

 

[farouk]

Paul's thorn in the flesh was there so tht he could rest - in weakness - in the Lord's grace, sufficient for him

( @MatthewG's question in the thread title is apt....)

 

[MatthewG]

My first quote was from Galatians 5. Was there a particular verse you were asking about maybe?

It is however interesting what our flesh is capable of and how the flesh is always opposed to the spirit.


Our flesh hates anything to do with faith.

It’s just interesting.

 

[farouk]

It is however interesting what our flesh is capable of and how the flesh is always opposed to the spirit.


Our flesh hates anything to do with faith.

It’s just interesting.

@MatthewG What a blessing for the believer in the Lord Jesus to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8.9), despite the trouble from the flesh...!

 

[farouk]

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing (Thelo, the verb cognate of Thelema) that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

(As a side comment, this passage only makes sense in a theological system that allows human free will.)

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will (Boule):

@Lambano That 2 Peter 3.9 verse gives us ample scope to exercise patience while we by His grace continue to serve Him, knowing the certainty of the fruition of His promises... :)

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG What a blessing for the believer in the Lord Jesus to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8.9), despite the trouble from the flesh...!

That is true. However you can have faith yet be weak spiritually in faith. Not having overcome things in the flesh. In which all still exist, it just depends if you decide to grow in the spirit by seeking and learning about God or not. The more you grow in the spirit the more from a babe in Christ you’ll grow into a Son or Daughter of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Hateful thoughts, looking down on others, prideful, greedy, lust.

All very real and can be hidden from others but never from God. (Yet fruit is seen bad and good) we all make mistakes but the lesson is to grow from them.

I believe it’s healthy to say the words that the Lord Jesus Christ said


“And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:20-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Mark 7:22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

What a great healing it is for Jesus to come in and shine a light on the darkness of our soul, healing and renewing the heart.

 

[Curtis]

I agree, Healing is available to all christians.

It does not mean everyone will be healed.

A few examples have been given here prove that not everyone will be healed. Yet these people have glorified God in their weekness..

God gets no glory from believers being sick, but when they’re healed.

Jesus healed every single person without exception who had enough faith to ask Him to heal them, and never once told anyone God wanted them to remain sick.

The point you’re missing is that if your sins have been forgiven, the rest of His atonement is also for you without exception - it’s not a partial atonement.

 

[Brakelite]

Forgive me if this has been said before. I have had many friends who died of cancer or other ailments despite much prayer, even fasting, on their behalf. Why not? I have no idea, and I'm not going to make suggestions. Nor consider any others.
Death is a part of life.
What I do believe is that no-one will be healed if their illness is a direct result of self inflicted poor eating habits and lifestyle decisions. There is no glory to God when His people are ignoring basic health principles and suffering as a result. Good I believe will change their lives first... Upend ingrained lifestyle habits of gluttony, poor diet, lack of rest, overwork, lack of exercise etc., And those changes will bring about the healing that many seek and pray for.

 

[Vid]

Now, what this text insinuates is that the elders would know when it was God's will to heal the sick. Otherwise they would not be able to pray the prayer of faith, at least not in good conscience anyway. To do so would be against God's will. So there must certainly be gifts of discernment involved

Now whether they knew if God wants someone to be healed or not, they could still pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:5-13) which would help them be happy and at peace even though they are sick (Luke 6:47-48 and the similar Matthew 7:24-25). This is what I do when I pray for people, whatever their request is. As for the details of their request, I leave it to God, just like Jesus in Matthew 26:39 (and this is another verse indicating that, as you say, the Word of faith movement is oversimplified).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is however interesting what our flesh is capable of and how the flesh is always opposed to the spirit.


Our flesh hates anything to do with faith.

It’s just interesting.

Thats because fLesh is self focused, Self serving, and self righteous.

It is the part of us that is the root of all sin. The root of all unrighteousness. And the root of all rebellion.

The flesh is apposed to God because it does not trust God. Its ONLY purpose is to serve self.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God gets no glory from believers being sick, but when they’re healed.

He gets gory when a person is sick, and still praises God
He gets glory when a person is sick, and another person who is sick like them, sees this person praise God. And that person is drawn to the light
He gets glory when a person who is not sick. Sees that sick person praise God and always walk with a smile on their face. Never complaining about their illness, but serving the god they love,

Many people have come to christ based on this persons illness and how they react and continue to praise God.

Yes, God gets glory when someone is healed. But lets be honest, when everyone gets healed. People start coming to get healed and not to see God. They come to get fed to get whatever they need. I think we can look to the jews as proof of this. John 6 would be a great example of people coming just because of the miracle. And not because of Christ.

Jesus healed every single person without exception who had enough faith to ask Him to heal them, and never once told anyone God wanted them to remain sick.

He had a purpose when he was here. He s not here right now. And he has a greater purpose.

The point you’re missing is that if your sins have been forgiven, the rest of His atonement is also for you without exception - it’s not a partial atonement.

I will get sick (I am sick) and I will die.

Those are facts.. When I go to God I ask how I can serve others. I do ask for things I need. But my focus is not on myself.

Let’s focus on serving others not worrying about our sickness or health or how poor we are..

Thats what draws people to christ. The real Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Now whether they knew if God wants someone to be healed or not, they could still pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:5-13) which would help them be happy and at peace even though they are sick

Well, now about this, two things:

For starters the focus of the passage in James is on the prayer of faith healing the sick, not an ambiguous prayer potentially healing them. About your reference to the passage in Luke, I referenced this earlier in the thread myself. I would qualify using it there, given that the parable was talking specifically about receiving a word from God or a teaching from Him to help others in a place of spiritual need:
Should Christians Always Be Healed?

My point is that specifically applying this parable to believing God for healing may be stretching it a bit, though it is certainly possible I suppose.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will get sick (I am sick) and I will die.

Sick from what? If I may ask.

 

[Mayflower]

You too, @Mayflower gotta go to work soon. Been a little while since active here, thank you for sharing your insights with me and hope you and your children rest well. Take care, and thank you for the prayers sister.

God bless all of you, take care see you again! Hopefully either here or in heaven.

Me too. I needed a break, on a prayer team on another site, and I work full time now with two kids, so just decided to stay off. But there are aspect of CB I like too. I have friends here. And I like discussions like this. :) Y'all just won't see me on too often. Time during work hours are lunch break and sometimes while kids are napping, but they don't always sleep. I got to get going for work now, but my body isn't completely functioning yet. LOL

 

[Lambano]

Calvin: Hobbes, I just don't get this death stuff. ... It's either mean, or it's arbitrary. And either way, I've got the heebie-jeebies.
Hobbes: Why is it always night when we discuss these subjects?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sick from what? If I may ask.

I have diabetes. It is hereditary, My grandmother had it. My dad had it. A few of my dads brothers and sisters have it. My sister has it. I am taking medicine for it (I am not on insulin at least not yet) and with diet it is kept under control.

However it puts me at his risk for heart disease, stroke and or heart attack. Among other things (my grandmother lost her foot)

I am not saying that is why I will die. Just trying to show I could just pray and ask God to heal me, ask my church to pray (which they have) and just stop taking medicine. Or I can keep going to get tested. and when the doctor states I am ok to stop. I will stop. And turn my focus to more important things. Like serving God and others. Which I need to do more of.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's an interesting question, because not all His judgments are as direct and unmistakable today as they were during New Testament times. But I believe there is the following element at work: To whom much has been given, much will be expected. God holds others accountable for the things they experience and are shown. In New Testament times they witnessed His power at work, and His Spirit being poured out in abundant measure, with the apostles doing many mighty works. At such times I believe men are held even more accountable, and those times will come again, and are here even now for those who walk in greater responsibilities towards God.

But so you can see it from scripture, I will quote some of the primary passages from the New Testament. I have already included the last and the first, but I will quote them again for reference sake.

27 whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come. (1 Corinthians 12:27-34)

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write... I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:18-23)

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. 7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?” She said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things. (Acts 5:1-11)

I think we have established sometimes sickness and poor health comes as chastening of God.

But I do not believe all of it comes from that.

I believe Gods allows our free will choices. and sometimes uses them to serve and affect others.

The amount of people Joni has helped in her own condition and even those who are not in her condition is only a miracle in itself. And God be praised..

 

[Lambano]

Just trying to show I could just pray and ask God to heal me, ask my church to pray (which they have) and just stop taking medicine.

When my diabetic friend was in college, some folks in her prayer group convinced her God would heal her diabetes if she stepped out in faith and stopped taking her insulin. That didn't end well.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When my diabetic friend was in college, some folks in her prayer group convinced her God would heal her diabetes if she stepped out in faith and stopped taking her insulin. That didn't end well.

I have witnessed this personally in word of faith churches.

When our pastor took a promotion and left our church, the first one who replaced him did not do well. We went from having 500 every Sunday to bellow 100 in less than a year. they replaced him with a word of faith type teacher (we call them health and wealth) we saw an immediate impact as our weekly attendance rose to over 300. But that was short lived. Once people were told they were not healed because they did not have enough faith. and they were poor because they did not trust God and or because they had some sin issues. Many people fell away. we even lost good Christians who had been with us long before the first pastor left. Who ended up stop going to church at all. All because of the damage that was done. I was in middle school at the time. Many of my friends were close to receiving God. many of them ended up walking away and stopped coming when the bus went to pick them up (we had a great bus ministry)

sadly. when the church asked that guy to leave. they replaced him with another pastor. who introduced us to greek and hebrew and ice principles of bible study, but ended up leaving his wife and 8 kids to run off with a deacons wife..

The church never recovered. I drove by it last year. Some Spanish speaking group is meeting there now (I could not read the sign) there is no evidence of the church which was so powerful on the southeast side of my city was ever there.

It breaks my heart