That is a wrong assumption
I am teaching and sharing what I believe and understand to edify.....if I was proved wrong what I teach would change
I ask of you to by scripture counter what I teach.....I would gladly consider it
SHOULD I BE WATER BAPTIZED?
- Thread starter Doug
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I am teaching and sharing what I believe and understand to edify.....if I was proved wrong what I teach would change
I ask of you to by scripture counter what I teach.....I would gladly consider it
To be baptized with John's baptism, is one of repentance, and for remission of sins.
Acts 2:38
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
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Yes there are baptisms without being sprinkled or immersed in water
[1Pe 3:20-21 KJV] 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter says Noah was saved by water and it was a figure of baptism......Noah stayed dry
[1Co 10:1-2 KJV] 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Israel was baptized but stayed dry
[Luk 3:16 KJV] 16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Here are two dry baptisms......not water but the Holy Ghost and by fire
[Mat 20:22 KJV] 22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Jesus was not speaking of water baptism but of his death
[Jhn 10:26-27 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
You are not the sheep......only Israel are the sheep
[Psa 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Again....the Bible told Christians to be baptized that is what counts for Christians.
And understanding the scriptures does not mean....DO WHAT THE SCRIPTURE DON'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. Making things up as you go and doing what you want is a cursed Gospel.
Again, is it Doug's way of being baptized by the Spirit because it certainly is not described in the New Testament?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
None of this pertains to actual Christians......Jews and what Christ went through....not Acts 2:38
Look I get the willies talking to people that are damned....no more talk to you.
Again no process in the scriptures for Spirit Baptisms.
Stating that Peter instructed all to be baptized with water for the remission of sins. His is a baptism of repentance.
It is plain as day to myself. This is on topic so, what is your issue really?
last thing just so you know here is baptism by the Spirit
[Mat 3:11 KJV] 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Peter was speaking to Israel
[Act 2:22 KJV] 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Peter was convicting them of crucifying Christ
[Act 2:23 KJV] 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Peter preached that Christ was risen
[Act 2:32 KJV] 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Again who is he talking to? Israel.....Israel had to acknowledge that this Jesus who they crucified is Lord and Christ
[Act 2:36 KJV] 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Then being convicted they asked what to do
[Act 2:37 KJV] 37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them,,,,not all....to them, repent and be baptized to forgive them of crucifying Christ,,,,,,to repent (change their minds) and believe Jesus is indeed Lord and Christ
[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The promise of the Holy Ghost to those who believed and were baptized was to those there of Israel and to their children....not to all
[Act 2:39 KJV] 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Paul reveals that all can be saved
[1Ti 2:4-6 KJV] 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It sounds like you are saying, in essence that, Gentiles should ignore everything Jesus did and said before the cross.
Like the sermon on the mount for instance? And of course the whole O.T. is also only spoken to Israel.
I get more and more confused when reading some on here.
We have to agree to disagree.
God Bless.
Those who are far off are shown as the Gentiles though, for example,
Ephes 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Ephes 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Those that are far off are shown as the Gentiles
Ephes 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Says here that both have access by one Spirit here
Ephes 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Here the Gentiles have the gift of the Holy Ghost poured out upon them
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
And here Peter tells them to be water baptized
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
We can learn from all scripture from the old testament, from Christ and the twelve from Hebrews thru Revelation but we dont think its all about us....we cant think that everything instructed or commanded is for us
I am not being flippant, but I am not building an ark
I am not selling all I have
I am not keeping myself from wearing clothes of mixed linen and wool (Leviticus 19:19)
I can learn from the sermon on the mount as you mentioned but I know it was about the qualities of believing Israel in the kingdom on earth promised them.....they will be blessed in the kingdom of heaven which is the earthly kingdom
[Mat 5:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
There can be more than one understanding of terms in the Bible
Far off as used in Acts 2:39 is referring to those Israelites that were scattered into other countries
[2Ch 6:36 KJV] 36 If they sin against thee, (for [there is] no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before [their] enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;
[Eze 11:16-17 KJV] 16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come. 17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
Paul used far off to mean Gentiles were distanced from God and his provisions for Israel
[Eph 2:13 KJV] 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
I do understand there can be more than one understanding of terms, there is being strangers in this world, there are being strangers to the covenants etc. And that are those scattered among the Gentiles
He speaking to Israel here
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
The promise being to the house of Isreal and their children AND all that are far off
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The residue of men AND ALL THE GENTILES UPON WHOM MY NAME IS CALLED
Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
And these (Being Gentiles) which WERE FAR OFF are MADE NIGH by the blood of Christ
Ephes 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Preaching peace to both to you (Gentiles) which were far off
Ephes 2:17 And came and preached peace to you (Gentiles) which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Ephes 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephes 2:19 Now therefore ye (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God
And he is speaking of the Gentiles as strangers and foreigners ere because if you go back a few verses
Ephes 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Ephes 2:12 That at that time ye (Gentiles) were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world
Ephes 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
I still contend that those far off is scattered Israel
James said Peter declared that God called out the Gentiles in Acts 10:45
[Act 15:14 KJV] 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
James said the calling out of the Gentiles is found in the prophets which he then quotes Amos 9:11-12 in verse 16 below.....this is talking about setting up the Davidic kingdom on earth.
[Act 15:15-17 KJV] 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
In the kingdom the Gentiles will flow to Jerusalem to seek the Lord......these are not the far off in Acts 2:39
[Isa 2:2-3 KJV] 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
We might not see eye to eye on Acts 2:39, so lets set that aside, and look at the other three times these are used where they apply to the Gentiles very clearly in context
Acts 22:21 far hence, Ephes 2:13 afar off, Ephes 2:17 afar off
Concerning repentance itself both Jews and Greeks are testified to concerning this (In Acts 20:21, see below)
We also see where the Gentiles had the gift of the Holy Ghost poured out upon them before being baptized by water as it is written here
Acts 10:45-46 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Peters command concerning them in the context of water baptism
Acts 10:47-48 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Peter again recounts the situation concerning the Gentiles here and the circumcision understood this to mean "God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Fast foward to Acts 20:21 where Paul speaks of testifying to both Jews and Greeks (as mentioned above) concerning repentance itself
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here is where my mind could possibly be changed, seeing that in Acts 18:8 it says
Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Which was Paul doing so, as he writes
1 Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus ...
Crispus being a the chief ruler of the synagogue would be a Jew
But then he says,
....and Gaius in the same breath (I get everything from Gentile, or Jew and Gentile concerning him)
1 Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1 Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Regardless, moving on Paul retells us the order of things
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Saying that both were to repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
And shows Jews first more specifically and then them turning to the Gentiles here
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Regardless Paul tells the Gentiles the following
Rom 11:13-14 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Again, even if we set aside Acts 2:39 and look at Acts 22:21 far hence, Ephes 2:13 afar off, Ephes 2:17 afar off in each of their contexts (as laid out below) each pertains to the Gentiles
Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
Ephes 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Ephes 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Agree but I must say you present a thoughtful respectful discussion which I respect and benefit
You as well Doug , even when we dont see eye to eye, its always been good.
[Act 22:21 KJV] 21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
Paul was being sent to Gentiles but the Gentiles never received any promises as stated in Acts 2:39 and they would be afar off because they were beyond the country of Israel
