Should Christianity be less political?

[Wynona]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

 

[Enoch111]

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts?

If actual Christians were governing Western countries, they would not be in such a mess right now. So we need to distinguish between good governance and dirty politics. All Christians should be concerned about good governance since God wants to see justice and mercy as well are righteousness in public life (and private lives). But Christians can totally avoid dirty politics while also exposing the evil policies and agendas of the Marxist/Communist/Anarchists on the Left. The general run of politicians have all failed their constituents, their oaths, and their countries. So now things can only get worse, and election fraud is going to be the norm.

 

[Wynona]

If actual Christians were governing Western countries, they would not be in such a mess right now. So we need to distinguish between good governance and dirty politics. All Christians should be concerned about good governance since God wants to see justice and mercy as well are righteousness in public life (and private lives). But Christians can totally avoid dirty politics while also exposing the evil policies and agendas of the Marxist/Communist/Anarchists on the Left. The general run of politicians have all failed their constituents, their oaths, and their countries. So now things can only get worse, and election fraud is going to be the norm.

I take it then that you believe we should be more involved politically, not less.

 

[marks]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

"If you have the opportunity to gain your freedom, use it". This is advantaging your societal status. Paul cited his Roman citizenship when he perceived it would bring a useful benefit, and didn't always, apparently failing to see that same benefit in those times.

Jesus, when He was about to send the disciples out, told them to pray to the Lord of the harvest to send workers. He sent them.

Paul wrote to Timothy to pray for our rulers that we can live peaceable lives.

I think each of these inform us on this topic. Pray for our rulers, and those on positions over us. Do such things as are within our rightful power to improve our ability to pursue Godly things, like evangelism, and caring for the needy.

As we pray, be ready to be one of those people whom God may use to have a direct effect.

But all while maintaining Godliness and righteousness.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Great questions, Wynona.

I would like to bring to mind a scripture :

1 Timothy 2
Pray for All People
2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

I believe God has created people and some people end up in politics but all politics is focused on is the world and changing it, and there is nothing wrong with people going in and trying to instate a law or whatever it is, I head on the news yesterday about a state that introduced children at the age of 8 can be arrested, and taken to Jail, as there was a dispute of a 6 year getting arrested. They may try to change it to around 15-16, and a person on there was sharing their story having getting walked out of school being in handcuffs and how that felt and the trauma of it.

These are the things of the world and it is part of our flesh we experience and go through, Jesus Kingdom is not of this world, and I believe that is a good thing to remember. Though we live in this world and we can read books, watch tv shows, and everything like that, the eternal aspect and afterlife is going to be the end result we will show up to upon death being resurrected and judged by God, or perhaps the judgement comes right upon death, God give us the rewarded spiritual body as we get the gates of heaven I am not totally sure.

Just thoughts to consider.

Love you!

 

[Enoch111]

I take it then that you believe we should be more involved politically, not less.

That is correct.

 

[amadeus]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

In this country one of the cornerstones of the 'freedom' that we have is the bill of the rights (first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution).

These amendments are supposed to protect the rights of individuals and minorities against the abuses of the majority who disagree with them.

This protection was never universal. For people who belong to most mainstream protestant and catholic church organizations and agree with their primary rules, there may seem to be no real problem because they are the majority. Will it not be the minorities in religious beliefs who will be hit the worst... even if or perhaps because they believe the Truth and are striving to follow it?

Was Jesus ever followed and/or supported by the majority?

In the early days of Hitler, if you were not a Jew, or a black, or a Jehovah's Witness, or a Gypsy, Germany may not have seemed too bad. The majority in Germany consisted of Catholics and Evangelicals. Hitler was apparently very careful not to offend them until His power was secure.

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

The Patriot Act, passed in the USA because of the attacks of 9/11, has given our government the authority to arrest people, including U.S. citizens... without the due process of law required by those 10 amendments. In other words, any one of us can be arrested and held for an indefinite period without having the right to a lawyer and without the right to be brought before a judge.

During the Civil War Abraham Lincoln used emergency war powers to do the same thing. Only after the war was over did the courts finally decide that it was wrong.

Franklin D Roosevelt did the same thing in WWII with U.S. Citizens of Japanese descent when he had them incarcerated, and had their property confiscated and sold. Oh, action was taken again after the war was over to make compensation to them, but how can you compensate someone for something like that? With money?

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

Ask the black Americans what happened to their right to due process in spite of the first 10 amendments and the 13-15 amendments [these last passed to assure the final and complete abolition of slavery] until the last half of the 20th century. Ask them about the equal rights supposedly given to them by the constitution and its several amendments?

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

The Patriot Act has now made it legal for the U.S. government at any time to do the same thing that Lincoln and Roosevelt did in times of war under emergency war powers, against anyone someone decides is an enemy... including natural born U.S. citizens. Who decides?

Where is Jesus? Is He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

The Patriot Act was passed during the Bush administration, but what subsequent administration has not used that law to further its own agenda rather than to have it declared unconstitutional?

Where is Jesus? Is He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

The Jews in Nazi Germany were also a minority and many of them owned property and had been natural born German citizens all of their lives. Their rights were gradually diminished and eventually their citizenship revoked making them literally people without a country. From there it got worse.

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

Are not genocides perhaps just as bad today in parts of the world with few other people caring enough to do anything? Where are the "Christians"?

The U.S. government apparently knew about the Jews in WWII early enough to make a difference and so did the others, but seemingly they were then as they are now: selfish. Was Jesus ever selfish?

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

Neither the United States nor the majority of the nations who would eventually constitute the Alliance against Germany allowed more than a tiny fraction of Jews to enter their countries from Germany when Hitler was allowing it. One of the major exceptions was the Netherlands, but when Hitler overran that tiny country, he got most of them anyway.

Where was Jesus? Was He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

The main difference between Nazi Germany and the United States today is that one man led the way in Germany and if anything had happened to that one man early in the days of his power, millions of lives might have been spared. In spite of attempts Hitler was not assassinated and he pressed his way until it became the German way.

In the United States there is no one man like that. Is it not worse because no assassination of any one person in any existing position of power, including the President of the United States, would stop the country from continuing in this way... leading away from [as I see it] rather than toward God?

Where is Jesus? Is He in the so-called Christian majority? Probably not!

Our only hope is in God, but I do not expect to see Him save this country! Only God's people who humble themselves to Him and place Him first in their lives ahead of everything else could cause Him to do that!

Where is Jesus? Is He in the so-called Christian majority? If He were, would we as a nation and a world be finding ourselves in the position of Sodom and Gomorrah where God could not find even 10 righteous? Is it that bad...? Look around...!

Where are we? Is Jesus really in us? Is He really on the side of the United States, a supposedly Christian nation? What does it mean to be Christian? Are not the already changed definitions applied to the word, Christian, also making differences of the wrong kind according to God?

Should we expect a solution to our problems or the world of men's problems through the ways of men?

Who trusts in God alone?

 

[Wynona]

Where are we? Is Jesus really in us? Is He really on the side of the United States, a supposedly Christian nation? What does it mean to be Christian? Are not the already changed definitions applied to the word, Christian, also making differences of the wrong kind according to God?

I don't know. Some say America was founded on Christian principles. Others say we were founded on paganism.

I really don't know. I need to pray more on this. It may take a while for me to get a grasp on this.

 

[FHII]

Wynona, that is a great question and you set it up perfectly! Furthermore, the responses all around have been very good. I don't think there is a clear cut answer, but I have a stance (its ok to have a stance, even though you realize it isn't perfect, isn't it?)

The leaders of this world collectively will never bring peace and harmony on this earth. We are doomed! However, as Christians and Children of God, this is not our world: we are strangers and sojourners. This is not our home. Now that is a spiritual concept; I was born in Connecticut, USA. Thats the flesh part of me.

But here we are as strangers. We are also His witnesses and when God decides enough is enough, we will witness how bad it is. It would not be right to forsake justice on earth. Even though politics will eventually fail, the righteous (through faith, of course) should still stand up for righteousness.

As much as I am awaiting God to restore the planet as promised, I don't believe we should sit idle.

I have no faith in world politics; I believe a great fall is coming so I look to heavenly things. But that does not mean I will not fight for what is right. Its about the only battle I am willing to fight, while believing failure is coming.

But I am not about to go before God and tell him I didn't try just because the war was too great!

So the bottom line is Christians shouldn't have trust in gov't, but they should still fight for what is right.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't know. Some say America was founded on Christian principles. Others say we were founded on paganism.

Does liberty and justice for all sound like paganism? Does "In God We Trust" on currency sound like paganism?

The United States America was built on Christian and ethical principles enshrined in the Constitution (even though many of the Founding Fathers were Deists and Freemasons).That succeeding governments failed to uphold these principles in spirit and in letter does not invalidate those principles. And because of its uniqueness, America is now under full scale attack from inside by those who were indoctrinated with Marxist/Communist ideas. Barack Obama was a committed Communist who got the ball rolling, and now he is the puppet master behind fraudulent president Joe Biden. Every move made by Biden is to destroy America and shred its Constitution. Even though godless Communism has failed wherever it was put in place (and the exception of China has other factors to make it an exception), yet the stupid and treasonous Leftists in America want to make it a Communist dictatorship. When free speech is muzzled, then tyranny will rule.

To claim that America was founded on racist principles is nonsense, but that is now being promoted through Marxist Critical Race Theory. Marxism was all about the "eternal struggle" between classes, but since that is unworkable in the States, it is now all about race (even though blacks are in very prominent positions in government and public life and are prospering), and all kinds of races are flooding the southern border..

Killing babies is the hallmark of American Leftists, so now they are howling and rioting because there is a possibility that abortion (which is murder) will no longer be legitimate or tax-funded. This is no different than sacrificing children to the pagan god Molech in the Bible. So severe judgments will be coming upon the USA unless abortion is banned and labeled as murder.

 

[Windmill Charge]

you believe we should be more involved politically, not less.

Take a look at what is happening in the laws in the west. How do you think the laws about discrimination andpromoting hatred are going to be used?

To talk about the Christian view of marriage can be called inciting hatred!
Laws that will make preaching of the gospel a criminal offence!

Why are you not politically active?

History lesson, Willberforce spent his life struggling to make slavery illegal. Would you rather he had never entered politics?

Salisbury did the same to protect the poor in England, laws that brought women and children out of mines, limitted the number of hours children could work.

Both these men were motivated by Christian principals.

 

[JohnPaul]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

Amen Sister!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

Since Jesus told us to be “no part of the world” (John 17:16) and he set the pattern by being completely uninvolved in the politics of the nation under whose laws the Jewish people lived back then, we should refrain from getting embroiled in any of it.
We should follow Jesus’ example.

What was the conversation between Jesus and the devil when he offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for one act of worship?
Luke 4:5-8...
“So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” 8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Who is the one in possession of all those kingdoms (including whatever nation we live in)? Who alone could have handed world rulership over to the devil?....and for what reason?

Did Jesus say anything about this not being true? Would it have been a temptation if these kingdoms were not the devil’s to give to whomever he wished?

Of all the kingdoms of the world are in the hands of the devil, doesn’t that show us why Jesus said we must be no part of it? Satan has three aspects of this world by which he controls all humanity...by one or more of these elements......corrupt politics....greedy commercialism...false religion.

So for Christians being ‘friends of the world’ is not a good place to be....
James 4:4...
“Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God.”

Best to leave the world to those who choose to be part of the world....they are not friends of God.
We cannot be part of its wars, it’s political squabbling or its reprisals.
We cannot be part of its greedy commercialism or its materialistic lifestyle.
And certainly no part of its immorality and violence. Even its entertainment frequently features violent supernatural themes.

With the current situation in Ukraine, the two opposing forces are operating under two divisions of the Catholic Faith.....Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Orthodox churches.....brother is killing brother, so whose side will God take?
1 John 4:20-21...
“If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.”

If we participate in the politics of our nation and vote certain ones into office, God will hold us accountable for what these ones do once they are in power. We cannot share that responsibility, so taking Jesus at his word....his kingdom is nothing to do with this world. (John 18:36)

There is nothing we can do to make the world better......only the coming of God’s kingdom will do that.....so that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I wonder just how many posters in this thread have read and understood what James chapter 2 means in how we live.

To say to a homeless person, go I pray that you will be warm and well fed!' and to do nothing, what good is that pray, what good is the ' faith ' of the person who says that?

If one sees injustice and is not moved by that injustice, do you actually love others as Jesus has loved you?


Historicall Christians by showing that they cared for others have changed the world, and the ultimate expression of love, the ultimate political act is to tell people they are sinners and need Jesus.

 

[Sabertooth]

Can you give your thoughts?

In a different context, Jesus said,
“Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Matthew 22:21 NKJV

In the USA, a democratic republic, we "owe Caesar" the expression of our votes in good conscience.
God expects us to be diligent in that duty, so we must consider its surrounding issues.

When we are not voting nor in office, arguing those issues incessantly can become a distraction and take our eyes off of Jesus.
Activism might be worthwhile, but fruitless arguing is not.

 

[Wynona]

Why are you not politically active?

Don't assume that. I never said I was apolitical.

 

[Wynona]

In a different context, Jesus said,
“Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Matthew 22:21 NKJV

In the USA, a democratic republic, we "owe Caesar" the expression of our votes in good conscience.
God expects us to be diligent in that duty, so we must consider its surrounding issues.

When we are not voting nor in office, arguing those issues incessantly can become a distraction and take our eyes off of Jesus.
Activism might be worthwhile, but fruitless arguing is not.

When I was praying about the issue last night and this morning, that is the verse God gave me.

Later, I might share more thoughts on it.

 

[Bob Estey]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

We should stand up for what we believe in. Otherwise, Satan always gets his way. But don't let Satan trick us into doing his work for him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am torn between two ways of thinking.

1. Christianity should be less political. We belong to the eternal Kingdom and the world and its systems are passing away. We need to stop over emphasizing America, the President, and political parties and put the emphasis on Christ.

2. We should be even more political. God always had a hand in politics in the Bible. We should have influence over politics so that Godly values can help the country go in a better direction. We should be voting and voting for the right people.

Help would be appreciated. Can you give your thoughts? Lets keep love, respect, and civility in this discussion. Think about unsaved people and what we reflect to them in our discourse.

4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

If actual Christians were governing Western countries, they would not be in such a mess right now. So we need to distinguish between good governance and dirty politics. All Christians should be concerned about good governance since God wants to see justice and mercy as well are righteousness in public life (and private lives). But Christians can totally avoid dirty politics while also exposing the evil policies and agendas of the Marxist/Communist/Anarchists on the Left. The general run of politicians have all failed their constituents, their oaths, and their countries. So now things can only get worse, and election fraud is going to be the norm.

The day is certainly coming when the West is going to be ruled by actual Christians, but they will not be Catholic nor Protestant. Both of these groups have already proven over the course of the last 1600 or so years that they don't know anything about ruling other people God's way. No one can honestly claim that Catholics or Protestants would do a better job at ruling over other people when they don't even want God to rule over them in their own lives. A lot of these people voted for Trump and spent 4 years justifying his lack character and shielding him from any legitimate criticism about it, so they are in absolutely no position to complain about how much character the left lacks.

People have been telling religious Trump supporters for the longest that it matters, and now God is giving them the opportunity to see just how foolish and destructive their logic is by allowing the left to occupy the White House. The sad part is, a lot of religious Trump supporters still won't get it because they're too caught up in the political tribalism.

We should stand up for what we believe in. Otherwise, Satan always gets his way. But don't let Satan trick us into doing his work for him.

Anyone who is trying to preserve Satan's world is doing his work. This is Satan's world, and it will continue being his world until the day Jesus returns and dethrones him. Civilization as we know it is going to collapse under the weight of its own sins, and the people who want to preserve it is going to be crushed under it. God tells anyone who is truly willing to believe Him to escape the building while there is still time(Rev. 18:4) because no amount of voting is going to prevent that from happening.