Shall we discuss this?

[marks]

Start with this appearance of Jesus as a blinding white light....

Rather, there shone a light from heaven.

And Jesus spoke with Saul.

But where does it tell us that the light was an appearance of Jesus? I get more the idea that's what happens sometimes when heaven opens onto earth. Like the angels and the shepherds.

Much love!

 

[Truther]

I don't understand your distinction. When I'm saying God, I'm saying, the omnipotent and sovereign Creator of everything, Who announces, "Are there any other gods? I don't know of any!"

Now, "there are lords many and gods many", that which are called gods, that are no gods at all.

Do you know what I'm asking?

Much love!

Yes, the God you are describing is "encapsulated" in the body of His son.

This makes His son, God by default.

His son could be nothing but God from that effect on his body.

 

[Truther]

I don't think this is the best understanding of that verse in Revelation, the other passage clarifies it to be those who's names do not remain written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

I can give you more detail on this if you like.

Much love!

The other passage is not the Rev 3:12 passage.

Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

Also, per the other passage, those that take the mark lost their names from the book of life the foundation of the world.

Both passages say God knows the folks in the future personally, before they are born.

 

[Truther]

Rather, there shone a light from heaven.

And Jesus spoke with Saul.

But where does it tell us that the light was an appearance of Jesus? I get more the idea that's what happens sometimes when heaven opens onto earth. Like the angels and the shepherds.

Much love!

You asked for it...

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The light that Paul saw and blinded him, is Jesus that lights up heaven by God's power.

 

[marks]

Yes, the God you are describing is "encapsulated" in the body of His son.

This makes His son, God by default.

His son could be nothing but God from that effect on his body.

I'm sorry, I'm still confused. In your view then, does Jesus become a second God? The same God in a second place? God having become a new form?

Much love!

 

[Truther]

I'm sorry, I'm still confused. In your view then, does Jesus become a second God? The same God in a second place? God having become a new form?

Much love!

No, His God is inside him.

This is the man Christ Jesus and his God this speaks of...


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Not, God AS A man.

 

[marks]

The other passage is not the Rev 3:12 passage.

Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

Also, per the other passage, those that take the mark lost their names from the book of life the foundation of the world.

Both passages say God knows the folks in the future personally, before they are born.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

These are the passages I'm referring to.

In Revelation 13:8, the clause "from the foundation of the world" can fit grammatically with either "whose names were not written in the book of life", or with, "of the Lamb slain", so this passage is ambiguous, and we need to bring other passages to bring clarity. We have a parallel passage in Revelation 17:8, which brings two of these clauses together, "not written in the book of life . . . from the foundation of the world".

So if we are going to choose whether to read 13:8 according to what we can support elsewhere, it would have to agree with 17:8, that being the names written from the foundation of the world.

To be sure, you can read one passage the one way, and the other passage the other way, and be grammatically correct. I don't happen think that's the best hermeneutic, but that's me.

Something else to mention . . . "names remain written" this is in the Perfect tense, which is to say the names were written and stay written from the foundation of the world. As if the names were all written but not all remain there.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, His God is inside him.

This is the man Christ Jesus and his God this speaks of...


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Not, God AS A man.

So then the Eternal Creator God indwelling a created man?

 

[Truther]

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

These are the passages I'm referring to.

In Revelation 13:8, the clause "from the foundation of the world" can fit grammatically with either "whose names were not written in the book of life", or with, "of the Lamb slain", so this passage is ambiguous, and we need to bring other passages to bring clarity. We have a parallel passage in Revelation 17:8, which brings two of these clauses together, "not written in the book of life . . . from the foundation of the world".

So if we are going to choose whether to read 13:8 according to what we can support elsewhere, it would have to agree with 17:8, that being the names written from the foundation of the world.

To be sure, you can read one passage the one way, and the other passage the other way, and be grammatically correct. I don't happen think that's the best hermeneutic, but that's me.

Much love!

These passages you are referencing shall not be quoted backwards....


18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[marks]

You asked for it...

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The light that Paul saw and blinded him, is Jesus that lights up heaven by God's power.

That's the eternal city, though, not the road to Damascus.

And even so, saying that Jesus shines brightly is not the same as saying He appears as light.

Personally I like to pay attention to the details.

Much love!

 

[Truther]

So then the Eternal Creator God indwelling a created man?

Bingo!

But first, the created man is made an omnipresent quickening spirit for his omnipresent God to fit inside him, bodily.

 

[marks]

No, His God is inside him.

This is the man Christ Jesus and his God this speaks of...


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Not, God AS A man.

So then how is Jesus God?

 

[marks]

Bingo!

But first, the created man is made an omnipresent quickening spirit for his omnipresent God to fit inside him, bodily.

So then the Father is now located in Jesus?

 

[marks]

These passages you are referencing shall not be quoted backwards....


18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I don't know what you are saying here. You think I'm adding to or taking from the Revelation? Is that the idea? Do you understand what I'm saying about those verses?

Much love!

 

[Truther]

That's the eternal city, though, not the road to Damascus.

And even so, saying that Jesus shines brightly is not the same as saying He appears as light.

Personally I like to pay attention to the details.

Much love!

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus can't help but be light.

Interestingly, the very 1st meeting I had with the Holy Ghost was a bright white light experience, but it did not blind me though.

It happened that way to many folks we gave Bible studies to in the 80's.

In those days, many had a bright light experience for a very dramatic conversion.

I was at a girlfriend's house and knocked flat by the light from the couch like Paul was.

The light was so strong that I could not even sit on the couch in His presence.

 

[Truther]

So then the Father is now located in Jesus?

Exactly.

That is what Col 2:9 perfectly says....


9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[marks]

Exactly.

That is what Col 2:9 perfectly says....


9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

So the Jesus doesn't become "the Creator God", is that right? That distintion remains with the Father?

Much love!

PS . . . I appreciate your patience!

PPS . . . why did you bold God, but not the Godhead?

 

[Truther]

I don't know what you are saying here. You think I'm adding to or taking from the Revelation? Is that the idea? Do you understand what I'm saying about those verses?

Much love!

I have had other posters bicker with Rev 13:8 similarly.

They quote the latter half of it backwards, like this...


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD of the Lamb SLAIN.


Instead of the proper way....

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Truther]

So the Jesus doesn't become "the Creator God", is that right? That distintion remains with the Father?

Much love!

PS . . . I appreciate your patience!

PPS . . . why did you bold God, but not the Godhead?

Same thing...God is Godhead.

It says ALL of GOD(head) inside Jesus, bodily.

 

[Truther]

So the Jesus doesn't become "the Creator God", is that right? That distintion remains with the Father?

Much love!

PS . . . I appreciate your patience!

PPS . . . why did you bold God, but not the Godhead?

Yes. That is how ALL POWER was given to him....by his inner Father.