Shall we discuss this?

[marks]

I am saying Jesus is God.

What I am not saying is a human being named Mary gave birth to God.

Rather, this human being was made God by his Father after his Father and God raised him from a horrible death.

The "changeable" God. Someone "becomes divine", or "the Father becomes the Son", or anything like this. I've never understood how someone can reconcile this idea to, for instance, "I YHWH change not, therefore, you, O Jacob, are not consumed".

And I have some concerns regarding this idea that God can or does change. One is that, does this mean we are saying that God was "improved"? Some lack corrected? That doesn't seem right.

Another is, are more changes coming? And another, given that God assured Jacob of their preservation based on God's immutability, what does that say for their preservation if God does in fact change?

Much love!

 

[Truther]

Jesus became God? You can't be serious. God has always existed.

No, you guys teach the dead man became God. (Living God became human, died, resurrected and re-became God)

The Bible teaches Jesus was MADE God(was not God prior), after he was resurrected from DEATH.

 

[Truther]

The "changeable" God. Someone "becomes divine", or "the Father becomes the Son", or anything like this. I've never understood how someone can reconcile this idea to, for instance, "I YHWH change not, therefore, you, O Jacob, are not consumed".

And I have some concerns regarding this idea that God can or does change. One is that, does this mean we are saying that God was "improved"? Some lack corrected? That doesn't seem right.

Another is, are more changes coming? And another, given that God assured Jacob of their preservation based on God's immutability, what does that say for their preservation if God does in fact change?

Much love!

God absolutely does not change.

God is only a Spirit, and will never be a human...ever.

However, God can enter into a human.

Now, if God makes an omnipresent human, then He can enter into this human, bodily, and all of His Spirit will be encapsulated in this human's omnipresent body....never changing Himself in the process.

 

[kcnalp]

No, you guys teach the dead man became God. (Living God became human, died, resurrected and re-became God)

The Bible teaches Jesus was MADE God(was not God prior), after he was resurrected from DEATH.

God cannot stop being God. You're massively confused.

 

[Truther]

God cannot stop being God. You're massively confused.

Of course. Also, God cannot be human, nor die, nor resurrect.

 

[marks]

God absolutely does not change.

God is only a Spirit, and will never be a human...ever.

However, God can enter into a human.

Now, if God makes an omnipresent human, then He can enter into this human, bodily, and all of His Spirit will be encapsulated in this human's omnipresent body....never changing Himself in the process.

What I don't understand then is how it would be that the Son, who is not God, is made to be God. We're talking the same God?

Much love!

 

[Renniks]

Incarnation is a type of reincarnation....oh, so close!

You have a Divine Being that became a human being, resurrected and became a Divine Being again.

Re-reincarnated Being!

Only in your mind is it a form of reincarnation. He never ceased being divine. Since you don't know what the incarnation is, you really shouldn't be arguing against it.

 

[Renniks]

Of course. Also, God cannot be human, nor die, nor resurrect.

Why not? You limit God to what you think he can do?

 

[Renniks]

Jesus was not fully indwelled of the Godhead, bodily in the gospels when he said that.

There was never a time when Jesus wasn't part of the Godhead.

 

[Renniks]

Also, nobody in the church prayed to the "3rd person", understanding that the Father(God) is both Holy and a Spirit...a(the) Holy Spirit.

Actually there's reference to the trinity and praying to the father very early in church history.

After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).

St Ignatius of Antioch, 35–108 AD
" I appeal to you, Lord, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob and Israel, You the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Infinitely merciful as You are, it is Your will that we should learn to know You. You made heaven and earth, You rule supreme over all that is. You are the true, the only God; there is no other god above You."

1. Clement of Alexandria (150–215)

Be kind to Your little children, Lord; that is what we ask of You as their Tutor, You the Father, Israel’s guide; Son, yes, but Father as well. Grant that by doing what You told us to do, we may achieve a faithful likeness to the Image and, as far as is possible for us, may find in You a good God and a lenient Judge"

Note he's praying to both Jesus and the Father.

1. for Peace of Mind — Origen (184–253 AD)

Let us pray that Jesus may reign over us and that our land may be at peace-i.e., that our bodies may be free from the assaults of fleshly desires. When these have ceased, we shall be able to rest, beneath our vines, our fig-trees and our olives.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit will shelter us as we rest, our peace of mind and body once recovered.

Glory to God the eternal, age after age. Amen.

Trinity and prayers to all three..my, my!

 

[kcnalp]

Of course. Also, God cannot be human, nor die, nor resurrect.

Jesus was God before He came in the flesh. He was always God. He did not have to become God.

 

[kcnalp]

Jesus was not fully indwelled of the Godhead, bodily in the gospels when he said that.

Are you just making all this stuff up?

 

[Truther]

What I don't understand then is how it would be that the Son, who is not God, is made to be God. We're talking the same God?

Much love!

The Son is not God until the Father that begat him made him God.

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Notice also that the verse is saying inadvertently that there is a God and a son....not a God which is also a son.

 

[Truther]

Only in your mind is it a form of reincarnation. He never ceased being divine. Since you don't know what the incarnation is, you really shouldn't be arguing against it.

The Lord God does not change....

Especially into a human being or a human nature.

The Pagans beg to differ.

 

[Truther]

Why not? You limit God to what you think he can do?

No, Jesus was limited per his own words.

But the Father that dwelleth in him, that doeth the works is unlimited.

Try giving Jesus' Father some credit once in a while, huh?

 

[Truther]

There was never a time when Jesus wasn't part of the Godhead.

Then you have 4 parts?

Father, Son, son(humanity) and Holy Ghost.

Question: is the 2nd persons humanity attached to all 3 now or just one of the 3?

 

[Truther]

Actually there's reference to the trinity and praying to the father very early in church history.

After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).

St Ignatius of Antioch, 35–108 AD
" I appeal to you, Lord, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob and Israel, You the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Infinitely merciful as You are, it is Your will that we should learn to know You. You made heaven and earth, You rule supreme over all that is. You are the true, the only God; there is no other god above You."

1. Clement of Alexandria (150–215)

Be kind to Your little children, Lord; that is what we ask of You as their Tutor, You the Father, Israel’s guide; Son, yes, but Father as well. Grant that by doing what You told us to do, we may achieve a faithful likeness to the Image and, as far as is possible for us, may find in You a good God and a lenient Judge"

Note he's praying to both Jesus and the Father.

1. for Peace of Mind — Origen (184–253 AD)

Let us pray that Jesus may reign over us and that our land may be at peace-i.e., that our bodies may be free from the assaults of fleshly desires. When these have ceased, we shall be able to rest, beneath our vines, our fig-trees and our olives.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit will shelter us as we rest, our peace of mind and body once recovered.

Glory to God the eternal, age after age. Amen.

Trinity and prayers to all three..my, my!

You made my case.

Not in the Bible, but in RCC history(commentary).

 

[Truther]

Jesus was God before He came in the flesh. He was always God. He did not have to become God.

God became microscopic?

 

[Truther]

Are you just making all this stuff up?

No, I just think of things you never thought of, then I show them to you.

Is the status quo all you can think about?

 

[Renniks]

The Lord God does not change....

Especially into a human being or a human nature.

The Pagans beg to differ.

The Lord God does not change....

Especially into a human being or a human nature.

The Pagans beg to differ.

Only you say God dwelled In a human which is certainly a change.