Shall we discuss this?
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Well then please stop implying Jesus isn't God! There's ONLY one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God is not speaking of himself as God here.
God is not speaking of himself as God here.
Which are you saying isn't God? Father, Son or Holy Spirit? Are you saying there are 3 God's?
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That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Definations of incarnation:
"the doctrine that the second person of the Trinity assumed human form in the person of Jesus Christ and is completely both God and man."
"central Christian doctrine that God became flesh, that God assumed a human nature and became a man in the form of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the second person of the Trinity. Christ was truly God and truly man. The doctrine maintains that the divine and human natures of Jesus do not exist beside one another in an unconnected way but rather are joined in him in a personal unity that has traditionally been referred to as the hypostatic union. The union of the two natures has not resulted in their diminution or mixture; rather, the identity of each is believed to have been preserved."
This is nothing like reincarnation. If you can't even understand the most basic things about the incarnation, how can you be having this discussion?
No, you just made that up.
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
But this is how Jesus taught us to pray:
Our Father in Heaven
We pray to God our Father who is in heaven. He is our Father, and we are his humble children. We have a close bond. As a heavenly, perfect Father, we can trust that he loves us and will listen to our prayers. The use of "our" reminds us that we (his followers) are all part of the same family of God.
Hallowed Be Your Name
Hallowed means "to make holy." We recognize our Father's holiness when we pray. He is close and caring, but he's not our pal, nor our equal. He is God Almighty. We don't approach him with a sense of panic and doom, but with reverence for his holiness, acknowledging his righteousness and perfection. We are awed that even in his holiness, we belong to him.
Your Kingdom Come, Your Will Be Done, on Earth As It Is in Heaven
We pray for God's sovereign rule in our lives and on this earth. He is our king. We recognize that he is in charge, and we submit to his authority. Going a step further, we desire God's Kingdom and rule to be extended to others in our surrounding world. We pray for the salvation of souls because we know that God wants all men to be saved.
No, I generally pray to the Father in Jesus' name. Big difference. Or I pray to Jesus, or the Father or the Spirit or all three. But actually praying to any one is still praying to all, because they are one.
I didn't drive over them. I just fail to see how you think they contradict the trinity.
Constantine did not start any new ideas at the council at Nicaea!
Quoting from a letter that Eusebius of Caesarea sent back from Nicea to his diocese. He says,
…We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, God from God, Light from Light, Life from Life, Son Only-begotten, first-born of every creature, before all the ages, begotten from the Father, by Whom also all things were made; Who for our salvation was made flesh, and lived among men, and suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended to the Father, and will come again in glory to judge the quick and dead. And we believe also in One Holy Ghost: believing each of these to be and to exist, the Father truly Father, and the Son truly Son, and the Holy Ghost truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, “Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Concerning Whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy. That this we have ever thought from our heart and soul, from the time we recollect ourselves, and now think and say in truth, before God Almighty and our Lord Jesus Christ do we witness, being able by proofs to shew and to convince you, that, even in times past, such has been our belief and preaching.[2]
His conclusion was that the Council merely affirmed what the Church had always believed and taught about Jesus’ divinity.
Ignatius (30-107 A.D.), who was born before Christ died, consistently spoke of the deity of Jesus Christ. Consider a few examples: In To the Ephesians, and other letters, we find references such as the following: “Jesus Christ our God”; “who is God and man”; “received knowledge of God, that is, Jesus Christ”; “for our God, Jesus the Christ”; “for God was manifest as man”; “Christ, who was from eternity with the Father”; “from God, from Jesus Christ”; “from Jesus Christ, our God”; “Our God, Jesus Christ”; “suffer me to follow the example of the passion of my God”; “Jesus Christ the God” and “Our God Jesus Christ.”[4]The fact that Ignatius was not rebuked, nor branded as teaching heresy by any of the churches or Christian leaders he sent letters to proves that the early church, long before 107 A.D., accepted the deity of Christ.
Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.), wrote that Jesus was “perfect God and perfect man”; “not a mere man…but was very God”; and that “He is in Himself in His own right…God, and Lord, and King Eternal” and spoke of “Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour and King”
Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-265 A.D.) declared in On the Trinity, that “All [the persons] are one nature, one essence, one will, and are called the Holy Trinity; and these also are names subsistent, one nature in three persons, and one genus [kind].”
Novatian (210-280 A.D.) wrote in his On The Trinity, of Jesus being truly a man but that “He was also God according to the Scriptures…. Scripture has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God.”[13](Note then, that in the 200’s we already had discourses on the Trinity.)
Eusebius of Caesarea stated that “the Son of God bears no resemblance to originated creatures but…is alike in every way only to the Father who has begotten [Him] and that he is not from any other hypostasis and substance but from the Father.”
From the very first, church leaders—immediately after the time of the apostles up to the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century and beyond—had consistently believed and taught that Jesus Christ is God.
101G
Well-Known Member
Not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but consider this. there is no way the Early church fathers believed in a trinity of three person. for we have on RECORD, the inspired scriptures to prove this. Thomas straight-out declared that Jesus is God, (John 20:28 kjv). the apostle Paul declared Jesus the "only" true and Living God, (1 Timothy 6:16 kjv), and Jude, (versess 24 & 25 kjv backed up by 1 Timothy 1:17 kjv). not only the apostles, but the disciples. Ananias at (Acts 22:12 - 14 kjv). or the prophet John at (john 1:1 and Revelation 1:4 & 5 kjv).
NO, aint no way the eary... church fathers got it wrong. maybe those after them may have gotten it wrong, but not the one's whom we have the record of who was inspired.
understand us, when we say church fathers we're not speaking of those whom are of the Roman Catholic Church, or who have their records/letters, no, but those of the universal church in Christ Jesus.
PICJAG.
NO, aint no way the eary... church fathers got it wrong. maybe those after them may have gotten it wrong, but not the one's whom we have the record of who was inspired.
understand us, when we say church fathers we're not speaking of those whom are of the Roman Catholic Church, or who have their records/letters, no, but those of the universal church in Christ Jesus.
PICJAG.
Yes, he is after his God resurrected him from the DEAD.
...you know, ...dead, as in deceased?
Yes, after he was MURDERED by his Jewish brethren from the loins of Abraham, he was made God.
I am saying Jesus is God.
What I am not saying is a human being named Mary gave birth to God.
Rather, this human being was made God by his Father after his Father and God raised him from a horrible death.
Trinitarians teach there are 3 divine separate and distinct individuals in the Godhead(AKA 3 Gods).
The Bible teaches there is one God and one man...A divine being and a human being.
You need to study the unity of God inside Christ and abandon the RCC created trinity idea.
Incarnation is a type of reincarnation....oh, so close!
You have a Divine Being that became a human being, resurrected and became a Divine Being again.
Re-reincarnated Being!
@Emma Kim
John chapter 1 is a tremendous passage; and the Person of the Lore Jesus Christ, the living eternal Word Who became flesh, shine so strongly from it.
In whatever language one reads the chapter - especially the first 18 verses - the words are clear and simple and make for very powerful reading, by God's grace.
So have you also read John chapter 1 in a language other than English, maybe? It's so clear and direct.
Jesus was not fully indwelled of the Godhead, bodily in the gospels when he said that.
This is how the post resurrection disciples prayed and talked to God...
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Not "in the name of...".
Also, nobody in the church prayed to the "3rd person", understanding that the Father(God) is both Holy and a Spirit...a(the) Holy Spirit.
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