Shall we discuss this?

[Truther]

first thanks for the OP. I would Love to answer each and every one of your question in this OP.

let's start with your 3rd and last scripture, and set the tone to eliminate any ignorance of these scriptures. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

you say JESUS have a "GOD" right, WRONG. let's examine this scripture, who NAME did he write? ... answer HIS Name. "MY" God is him. understand, and I will write upon him my new name.

you number 1 ignorance of the scriptures is that you don't understand the term, "FATHER". my God is ME the ordinal First. let's get the understanding of "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God".... Father here sinmply means the First to do Something. lets see it in the bible. Genesis 4:19 "And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah."
Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle."
here Jabal, is called the "father" of such that dwell in tents. he is the first author and inventor of tents or movable habitations. Jesus as the ordinal "First" is the "FIRST" who created and made all things. and Jesus in his Glorification after his resurrection is the "Author" and finisher/END of our Faith. when Jesus said "I ascend unto my Father". he is simply saying that he is asending to his "Spirit", which is the ordinal First in heaven. and when he Jesus say from Heaven said MY Son, he's simply saying "MY" body on Earth, for Jesus in Flesh is the Fulness of the Godhead, (the ordinal First, and the ordinal Last). for the ordinal First is God, and the ordinal Last is God, so when Jesus said, "I will write upon him the name of my God", the word "MY" is possessive. can we again prove this by scripture? yes,
Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." do you see the MINE, and the me in association. for MINE means, as a pronoun used to refer to a thing or things belonging to or associated with the speaker. BINGO, so again when Jesus say "MY" God, HIS "Spirit", for God is a "Spirit", which he is, per Phil 2:6 equally. not a second person, but the same person as "ANOTHER" clearly states in John 14:16...

so your ignorance of the term "Father", allows you to speak evil of the scriptures. no UNDERSTANDING of the Scriptures leads to FALSE "KNOWLEDGE" of the scriptures.

well I was going to deal with only one but got all three.

PICJAG.

What is Jesus' new name?

 

[Scoot]

I did.

It was rather lengthy.

Notice I keep it simple and discuss things point by point.

The reason is, we must score on every point if we are correct, not just a percentage of hits.

Respectfully, there was little scripture posted.(just "I believe....Verse, verse...."

I provided 12 scriptures, and then how I understand them. I'm sorry it was lengthy. I opened up my heart and was transparent and I'm not skilled in saying all I'm trying to in shorter sentences, I believe it's important to try and paint a clear picture of where I am coming from. Sorry.

If you want a tit-for-tat scripture back and forth - I'll respectfully back out as I explained that I'm not interested in that.

However - if you believe what I have written is in error - I am very keen for you to identify where I am wrong and bring it to my attention.

Scoot. You think Col 2:9 is saying Jesus is God or God is in Jesus?

No. There reference to Col 2:9 would have sat better under the statement "And I believe more - as the scriptures state", sorry for the confusion on that one.

But there are other scriptures such as John 1 such as "In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God." and then goes onto say "The Word became flesh and lived among us" in verse 14.

If you are able to grasp a full understanding of the entire relationship between the God head and have all scripture align perfectly without denying any scripture - you've got a far better revelation than I, and that's fantastic.

I'm working with what I've been given and am doing my best as I see dimly to believe all scripture without saying anything that would deny, or add to it what's not in there, and to answer the questions that you were asking with detail as to how I come to those conclusions.

 

[101G]

What is Jesus' new name?

(smile), lol..... try JESUS...

see Yeshua is his Hebrew name, and JESUS is God NEW NAME which no man knew only he alone, because the dominate language English haven't in time came yet....

Oh how easy this is, next question?.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

Mat 3:17, 1 John 4:10, John 5:19, John 1:1, John 8:58, John 10:38, Colossians 2:9, Colossians 1:16, John 1:3, Genesis 1:26, 1 Cor 13:12, Matt 10:32, and among it - my understanding and where I'm at. I'm sorry it was lengthy. I opened up my heart and was transparent and I'm not skilled in saying all I'm trying to in shorter sentences. Sorry. If you want a tit-for-tat scripture back and forth - I'll respectfully back out as I explained that I'm not interested in that. However - if you believe what I have written is in error - I am very keen for you to identify where I am wrong and bring it to my attention.



No. There reference to Col 2:9 would have sat better under the statement "And I believe more - as the scriptures state", sorry for the confusion on that one.

But there are other scriptures such as John 1 such as "In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God." and then goes onto say "The Word became flesh and lived among us" in verse 14.

If you don't mind, we can start with John 1.(You are very polite).

It speaks of God's spoken word, it was with Him and was Him.

Verse 3 says His spoken word made all things(as per Gen 1).

Verse 14 His spoken word also was made Jesus in a microscopic form(originally).

That's really all it says....

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made..

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


...and that's all it says....not that God was with God and God was made a microscopic person(Spirit did not become flesh).


Jesus can even prove that just 3 chapters later....


24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Truther]

(smile), lol..... try JESUS...

see Yeshua is his Hebrew name, and JESUS is God NEW NAME which no man knew only he alone, because the dominate language English haven't in time came yet....

Oh how easy this is, next question?.

PICJAG.

Only you and Jesus know?

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

This is in the future, not now.

How did you figure out what only Jesus knows?

 

[101G]

If you don't mind, we can start with John 1.(You are very polite).

It speaks of God's spoken word, it was with Him and was Him.

would you mind if I answer that John 1:1 question concering the WORDwas "WITH" God, since you and Scoot are having such a nice conversatation, which I don't want to interrupt without either of your permission....

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Only you and Jesus know?

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

This is in the future, not now.

How did you figure out what only Jesus knows?

READ the bible? ....

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

would you mind if I answer that John 1:1 question concering the WORDwas "WITH" God, since you and Scoot are having such a nice conversatation, which I don't want to interrupt without either of your permission....

PICJAG.

Absolutely. Please do. This is what forums are all about. Knowledge is power.

 

[Truther]

READ the bible? ....

PICJAG.

I do!

Jesus only, knows his new name as per when he returns(Rev 19).

You said it is already revealed 2000 years ago.

Fishy, my brother....

 

[Scoot]

If you don't mind, we can start with John 1.(You are very polite).

It speaks of God's spoken word, it was with Him and was Him.

Verse 3 says His spoken word made all things(as per Gen 1).

Verse 14 His spoken word also was made Jesus in a microscopic form(originally).

That's really all it says....

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made..

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


...and that's all it says....not that God was with God and God was made a microscopic person(Spirit did not become flesh).


Jesus can even prove that just 3 chapters later....


24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I'm sorry Truther - I don't quite follow you here...

It says that the Word was with God, and the word Was God? That means that the word was God, correct?

Then it says that all things that were made were made by Him (the Word), and nothing was Made that was Made. This means that the Word was not made, because nothing was Made that was not made by Him?

Then it says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Is this speaking of Jesus Christ to you? (As that's how I understand it). Thus all things were made by Jesus that were made (created). And thus Jesus is the Word. And the word is God. There is more to this (as there are other scriptures) and I would not rest on this scripture alone - but does 3:24 deny this?

I have no problems confessing that God is a Spirit - and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth. I rest that my mind can not fathom the make up of God - and as Paul - I see dimly, but in time to come - God will reveal to me when face to face the full truth.

Can you please let me know if you believe I'm wrong in my above understanding, and that I'm also wrong in my understanding that we only know in part now / see dimly (or that I'm misapplying that)?

 

[101G]

Absolutely. Please do. This is what forums are all about. Knowledge is power.

thank you, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
WITH here means the same person. meaning the Word and God is the same one PERSON, for John 1:1c clearly says so. but lets goto the OT and see it clearly. Listen and LEARN. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." WITH here seems like that the "First" and the "Last" is two separate person alongsid each other, NO, ERROR. let's see the real meaning of "With", scripture, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO.

so the "First" and the "Last" is not two separate alongside each other but is the SAME "ONE" PERSON. for also means addition too. so the First is the Last the same ONE person. just as John 1:1c clearly states the "WORD" was "GOD". same one person, so your idea of any Father and Son as two separate Person is FALSE.

Isaiah and John says you are in ERROR.

NEXT question.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I do!

Jesus only, knows his new name as per when he returns(Rev 19).

You said it is already revealed 2000 years ago.

Fishy, my brother....

not fishy, but FACT. why do you think the book of REVELATION is called the book of "Revelation?" .... because it reveals what is hidden. see how ignorant you are RIGHT NOW? do you think the name Jesus was Jesus when he walked the earth over 2,000 years ago? NO so why are you not calling him YESHUA? why, because you're calling him by his NEW NAME ... "JESUS", because you are speaking the dominate language today. man oh man how can someone be without knowledge for so long.

just ask yourself, why am I calling him JESUS instead of YESHUA? dhu?

PICJAG

 

[Truther]

I'm sorry Truther - I don't quite follow you here...

It says that the Word was with God, and the word Was God? That means that the word was God, correct?

Then it says that all things that were made were made by Him (the Word), and nothing was Made that was Made. This means that the Word was not made, because nothing was Made that was not made by Him?

Then it says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Is this speaking of Jesus Christ to you? (As that's how I understand it). Thus all things were made by Jesus that were made (created). And thus Jesus is the Word. And the word is God. There is more to this (as there are other scriptures) and I would not rest on this scripture alone - but does 3:24 deny this?

I have no problems confessing that God is a Spirit - and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth. I rest that my mind can not fathom the make up of God - and as Paul - I see dimly, but in time to come - God will reveal to me when face to face the full truth.

Can you please let me know if you believe I'm wrong in my above understanding, and that I'm also wrong in my understanding that we only know in part now / see dimly (or that I'm misapplying that)?

Here is what it is saying...God's word was with Him and is Him.

Just like our word that is with us...and is us.

The KJV(ancient version, not modern incarnationist version), says MADE flesh.

One life form(divine Spirit) becoming another life form(flesh), is directly contradicted by Jesus 3 chapters later.

He described God as a Spirit...him...him...

The incarnationist does not agree with Jesus' description of what God is, but would say "no Jesus, God became flesh...that's you".

I digress. God made everything by His word in verse 3, them made Jesus in verse 14.

Jesus knew that too.

 

[Truther]

thank you, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
WITH here means the same person. meaning the Word and God is the same one PERSON, for John 1:1c clearly says so. but lets goto the OT and see it clearly. Listen and LEARN. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." WITH here seems like that the "First" and the "Last" is two separate person alongsid each other, NO, ERROR. let's see the real meaning of "With", scripture, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO.

so the "First" and the "Last" is not two separate alongside each other but is the SAME "ONE" PERSON. for also means addition too. so the First is the Last the same ONE person. just as John 1:1c clearly states the "WORD" was "GOD". same one person, so your idea of any Father and Son as two separate Person is FALSE.

Isaiah and John says you are in ERROR.

NEXT question.

PICJAG.

Are you trying to make it say "in the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus was Jesus?

And Jesus became Jesus' flesh?

 

[Truther]

not fishy, but FACT. why do you think the book of REVELATION is called the book of "Revelation?" .... because it reveals what is hidden. see how ignorant you are RIGHT NOW? do you think the name Jesus was Jesus when he walked the earth over 2,000 years ago? NO so why are you not calling him YESHUA? why, because you're calling him by his NEW NAME ... "JESUS", because you are speaking the dominate language today. man oh man how can someone be without knowledge for so long.

just ask yourself, why am I calling him JESUS instead of YESHUA? dhu?

PICJAG

Rev 19 explicitly says only Jesus knows his new name per his return.

And you say his new name was revealed to everyone in Matt 1.

Did Rev 19 occur in Matt 1???

 

[101G]

Here is what it is saying...God's word was with Him and is Him.

Just like our word that is with us...and is us.

My God, the light bulb is coming on. "God Word was with him and is Him

Are you trying to make it say "in the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus was Jesus?

And Jesus became Jesus' flesh?

What! you can't read, listen closley, JESUS is God........ no, there is only ONE JESUS who is Father/ordinal First, and the ordinal Last/Son.

boy oh boy, ever learning but never able to come to the TRUTH.

PICJAG.


ps GET THAT NONESENSE OF A FATHER AND SON AS SEPARATE PERSONS OUT OF YOUR HEAD. JESUS IS THE FATHER "SHARED" IN FLESH AS THE SON.

 

[101G]

Rev 19 explicitly says only Jesus knows his new name per his return.

And you say his new name was revealed to everyone in Matt 1.

Did Rev 19 occur in Matt 1???

don't you know what Truther, .... go read your bible and come back, or re-read my post.

so good day, because Titus 3:10 is in effect.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

My God, the light bulb is coming on. "God Word was with him and is Him

What! you can't read, listen closley, JESUS is God........ no, there is only ONE JESUS who is Father/ordinal First, and the ordinal Last/Son.

boy oh boy, ever learning but never able to come to the TRUTH.

PICJAG.


ps GET THAT NONESENSE OF A FATHER AND SON AS SEPARATE PERSONS OUT OF YOUR HEAD. JESUS IS THE FATHER "SHARED" IN FLESH AS THE SON.

Then you definitely and inadvertently think it says "in the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with Jesus and Jesus was Jesus",.... if Jesus was the lone person in the beginning.

You then do not acknowledge that the spoken word made everything.

You then believe that God became a sperm cell(flesh) no matter what Jesus describes God as, per John 4:24.

Then you think that the Father is the Son, which means the Son impregnated his mother.

Here is what Trins say....God the Son.

Here is what oneness says...God the son.

Both of you incarnationist cousins teach "God the S(s)on."

 

[Truther]

don't you know what Truther, .... go read your bible and come back, or re-read my post.

so good day, because Titus 3:10 is in effect.

PICJAG.

When you become a first century disciple you can gut punch me with scripture.

Non first century disciples cannot use these verses against true, first century believers.

Acts 2:38 is not a covering for incarnation teachings, nor tithe teachings, nor etc...

 

[Scoot]

Hi Truther,

Here is what it is saying...God's word was with Him and is Him.

Yes - I believe I follow...

Just like our word that is with us...and is us.

I don't understand that at all. Our word? What is that?

The KJV(ancient version, not modern incarnationist version), says MADE flesh.

One life form(divine Spirit) becoming another life form(flesh), is directly contradicted by Jesus 3 chapters later.

He described God as a Spirit...him...him...

The incarnationist does not agree with Jesus' description of what God is, but would say "no Jesus, God became flesh...that's you".

I also apologise here - but you've completely lost me. I may need more sleep but at the moment I can't follow that sorry...

I digress. God made everything by His word in verse 3, them made Jesus in verse 14.

This I have some problems with...

You're saying that Jesus was created? I read vs 14 as "The word of God was made flesh". Made (ginomai) as in became. The word of God spoken in vs 14 is the same word of God spoken in vs 1. The word always was - it was not created, but through Him all things were created. That same word did not create - but rather became flesh.

This same word (ginomai) was used to describe stones being made into bread (Mat 4:3), us becoming the Children of God (Mat 5:45). Further more, Jesus said that before Abraham was - I am. (John 8:58).

So trying to see from your perspective, can you please let me know when do you believe that 1 John 14 occurred? (When was the word made flesh and dwelt among us)? Did this occur at the conception of Jesus in the womb? Or at another time?

I am not well educated in theology (never been to bible college / seminary, etc) - and I'm making statements and asking questions to explain my confusion to your statements in the hope that you can see my confusion and respond accordingly.