Shalom, JosyWales.
I really dont know what more I can say to you Retro. I have shown you my reasoning, which is nothing more than taking all the days that are attributed in the Bible concerning the Apocalypse and adding them up. I have even gone so far as to show you why I did and and how it worked out. It is surely more reasonable than the other explainations being offered here and, unlike all the rest, it fits perfectly without having to depend on things outside the Bible to support it.
But lets get past that since I can see that this logic is not acceptable to you.
So lets look at what you have just said:
....
(sigh) The reason the Bible says it should be done is because these are ALL and the ONLY numbers actually stated directly as time periods associated with the Apocalypse. There is more reason to do it this way than any other way I see being presented here, including your own.
I AM going to let this go. I've done all the reasoning I can with you about the numbers you have chosen to use in your calculations. I have given you reason enough to abandon the calculations to which you cling, but now the choice (and its ramifications) are in your court. Good luck with that.
Retro, have you ever actually done a word search in the Bible on the Hebrew word "Shaavuwa' "? Its easy to do. Go to BlueLetterBible.com and pull it up. You will find that this word is used 20 times in the Bible. 8 of those times it is used in Daniel. In EVERY other verse, including the 7 other times it is used by Daniel himself, it is ALWAYS meant to be interpreted as a WEEK.
Example:
Dan 10:2
In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks (
sjaaviwa').
Dan 10:3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks (
shaavuwa') were fulfilled.
If this isnt good enough for you, how about this:
Gen 29:28
And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week (
shaavuwa'): and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.
Or even here:
Deu 16:9 ¶ Seven weeks (
shaavuwa') shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks (
shaavuwa') from [such time as] thou beginnest [to put] the sickle to the corn.
In every single other place in the whole Bible that this word is used, it ALWAYS means WEEKS. Yet you are trying to tell these people that in this one place, it DOESN'T mean it? Sorry, what you are doing is a real case of engineering. Perhaps that is why you think you see it in me.
NO!!! You are DELUDING yourself! The word is "
shaavu`iym!" It is spelled "
shin-qamets-vet-qibbuts-ayin-chireq-yod-mem," including vowel pointing! (The highlighted words are letters, the rest are vowel pointing.) It is a plural word that stems from "
sheva`," spelled "
shin-segol-vet-patach-ayin," which is singular for "seven!" Actually, "
shaavua`" or its feminine form "
shaavu`ah" are passive participles formed from "
sheva`," and like many participles, both in Hebrew and in Greek, they can act like our gerunds, taking the part of a noun in the sentence. (They couldn't just use the plural of "
sheva`" because that would be "
shiviym," which is used to mean "seventy.") "Shaavu`iym" means "SEVENS!!!" PERIOD!!! That's just simple Hebrew! QUIT MAKING IT MEAN MORE THAN IT MEANS!!! It is just a plural form of an adjective and has NOTHING to do with the units! It can mean "sevens" of days, but it can also means "sevens" of years! Shoot, it can even mean "sevens" of DONKEYS! (I'm not saying that's in the Bible; it's just that in conversation with one who speaks Hebrew it could mean "sevens" of ANYTHING!)
And, I've done word searches as far back as I can remember! I was doing word searches back in GRAMMAR SCHOOL with Bible that had concordances and dictionaries in the appendices! I used to study very carfully the Hebrew letters that were given for headings in Psalm 119, copying how they were drawn, memorizing them (in the best way I could understand how they sounded) in order, and attempting to compare them to English letters. (I think I was 7 or 8 at the time.)
For my exhaustive searches, I started with a family Bible that included a lexicon from Young's Concordance. Then, I was using my dad's Strong's Exhaustive Concordance until I started to wear it out, and then my parents gave me my own Strong's Concordance when I was in junior high school! That old green thing is 2.5 inches thick, and I STILL have it near my desk to look up words, if I want to do it by hand or see what was actually IN Strong's Concordance! Today, I will use PC Study Bible or Webster's New World Hebrew Dictionary or the JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh or one of my Hebrew grammar books. I'm not restricted to any one source for my word searches or word studies these days.
So, yes, I am well familiar with word searches, word studies, word definitions, and word etymologies. Furthermore, I have had several courses on Hebrew and Hebrew grammar as well as Greek and Greek grammar. So PLEASE don't think me ignorant about this simple word!
Furthermore, you should be aware that Genesis 29:28 is merely the end of the story. The particular story begins back in verse 18 where Ya`aqov agrees with his future father-in-law Lavan to work seven YEARS for Rachel. And one of the most tender of verses is verse 20:
Genesis 29:18-30
18 And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.
19 And Laban said, It is better that I give her to thee, than that I should give her to another man: abide with me.
20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.
21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her.
22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.
23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.
24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.
25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?
26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.
27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.
28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.
29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.
30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.
KJV
Ya`aqov (Jacob) served SEVEN YEARS for Lavan to wed Rachel and was given Le`ah instead. He worked ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS for Lavan to wed Rachel, as well! So, this "seven" was not "seven days," but "seven YEARS," in this context! He may have been given Rachel right away, but he at least entered an agreement to work another seven years! So, the word is not restricted to "seven days," that WE call a "week."
In the context of Dani'el 9, the word for "day" (Hebrew:
yowm) IS NOT FOUND except in verses 7 and 15! And there, the words are "
kayowm hazeh," meaning "like this day." All other units of time measurement are YEARS (Hebrew:
shaanaah or it's plural
hashaaniym), in verses 1 and 2! Furthermore, the link between verse 2 and verse 24 is not the unit but the number "seventy" (Hebrew: shiv`iym), which was multiplied by seven!
Everything you put forth here has no bearing on what I have shown you. Worse, you are telling us your opinion as if it is fact, unlike what I have done. It is not my opinion that all the days listed in Revelation and Daniel add up to 2300 Days. It is a true fact and easily proved as I have done.
However, you have revealed yourself in your above words. It is clear you are trying to say that the event of Daniel 9 happened already during the time of Jesus, and this is not so. Your manipulation of the word of God cannot make it so. You are wrong.
I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is wrong. The event of Dani'el 9, namely "the overspreading of abominations that led to desolation," DID already happen in the time of Yeshua`! He WAS rejected by those who were supposed to accept Him and anoint Him as their King! THOSE REJECTIONS ARE the abominations! (What could be more abominable than that?!) And, they DID "overspread" - or spread out like the feathers in a wing! They spread until there was hardly a voice that wasn't crying out, "Crucify Him!"
So, Yeshua` left them DESOLATE, just as Gavri'el predicted! And, their desolation resulted in the ultimate abomination, the destruction of the second Temple. That desolation's abomination - the destruction of the Temple, reaching all the way to the very Holy of Holies - is what Yeshua` predicted in Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; and Luke 21:20. Sorry, but they DID happen in the first century! The prediction occurred circa A.D. 30, and its fulfillment occurred in A.D. 70!
Read them again!
Daniel 9:26-27
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and (1)
in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and (2)
for the overspreading of abominations (3)
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and (4)
that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
(1)
Matthew 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV
(1)
Hebrews 9:1-10:22
9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
KJV
(2)
Matthew 23:13-39
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(2)
Matthew 27:15-26
15 Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would.
16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas.
17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ?
18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.
19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
KJV
(3)
Matthew 23:38-39
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
(4)
Matthew 24:15-22
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV
(4)
Mark 13:14-20
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
KJV
(4)
Luke 21:20-24
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
KJV
And, this portion of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in A.D. 70!
If you think I am being harsh, I am sorry, I do not mean to be so. I am sure you believe yourself to be a follower of Jesus, but you have been misled. If you do not wish to heed my words now, then at least please remember them for later. You may need them when you finally see with your own eyes the events of Daniel taking place before you.
I am sending out a warning to any that can listen.
In all of these verses, I see ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of an "antichrist" or a "beast" or a "man of sin!" And, if anyone THINKS they see him in the "prince that shall come" in Dani'el 9:26, that is not talking about him but about HIS PEOPLE! It's the "PEOPLE of the prince that shall come!" He is only mentioned in a prepositional phrase, and prepositional phrases cannot be part of the main parts of speech in a sentence! And, that is true in both the English translations, AND in the Hebrew grammar, as well!
I hope you don't think I'm being harsh, either. HOWEVER, I am TIRED of the misreading of Scripture! NOBODY seems to go back to actually check out the Hebrew grammar!
Ever watched any episodes of Monk? "I may be wrong, ... but I'm not!"
