Seven Signs of the End..

[Hobie]

You believe that your understanding is beyond reproach, yet you hold onto the tradition of what was understood by men round 500 years ago.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that God will judge the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and imprison them in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years before in Revelations we are told that they are released for a little while. The Kings of the present day Earth will be judged in around 20 years' time at Armageddon. We are also told in the Book of Revelation that the beast and the False Prophet were also imprisoned in the Bottomless pit with the Judged Kings of the earth.

I would humbly suggest to you that the Beasts of Daniel 7 are actually wicked fallen heavenly hosts and that they will eventually face their punishment in the Lake of Fire.

I am happy, if my understanding is wrong, to be shown through the use of scripture where my understanding is misguided, but so far you have not been able to me how the dots in scripture are joined as you are continually claiming.

The Statue Prophecy in Daniel 2 is not connected in any way shape or form with the Daniel 7 revelation of the Beast.

When you can show me that the two prophecies are connected, then I will change my tune.

Are you prepared to change your tune when your understanding is demonstrated to be false.

You do not love the truth, so you try to suggest alternatives which no one supports, and then you want others to follow it...not much there to say the least..

 

[Jay Ross]

You do not love the truth, so you try to suggest alternatives which no one supports, and then you want others to follow it...not much there to say the least.

I believe that you are speaking of another person who suggested alternatives that no one wanted to hear or follow, and He was called a person who did not love the truth. In fact, this person fulfilled Biblical Prophecy which the so-called religious leaders of his time did not understand.

You claim that history supports your tradition, but as I pointed out previously the historical record provided many other possibilities that would comfortably fit your beliefs like a glove.

Yet, when I point out historical facts that confirm the fulfilment of some recorded biblical prophecies, your silence is deafening in the lack of support that you provide in those cases as it disproves your theory that the Roman Empire is the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy, yet the historical fact shows otherwise.

You have stated that I "do not love the truth" yet your own actions and opinions demonstrate that it is you and your denomination that has scant regard for the truth.

Goodbye, you are a part of the weakest link.

 

[CC7799]

Revelation chapter 7

The four winds are let loose. When 14,000 and the election are Sealed. Then the end comes. They are servant's of God.

Jesus gave us signs of Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 21, and revelation. The trumps, seals and vials.

Pestilence
Earthquake
Roaring waves
False shepherd's
Famine /inflation. Both spiritual and physical.
Wars and rumors of wars
Nation rising against nation

Seal of God is the holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians chapter 2 and Romans chapter 11 to document.

Election have Holy Spirit.

Reprobates have unclesn Spirit . 2 Corinthians chapter 2. There under control of Satan.

Spiritually dead have Spirit of slumber. Isaiah chapter 6.

 

[Hobie]

Revelation chapter 7

The four winds are let loose. When 14,000 and the election are Sealed. Then the end comes. They are servant's of God.

Jesus gave us signs of Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 21, and revelation. The trumps, seals and vials.

Pestilence
Earthquake
Roaring waves
False shepherd's
Famine /inflation. Both spiritual and physical.
Wars and rumors of wars
Nation rising against nation

Seal of God is the holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians chapter 2 and Romans chapter 11 to document.

Election have Holy Spirit.

Reprobates have unclesn Spirit . 2 Corinthians chapter 2. There under control of Satan.

Spiritually dead have Spirit of slumber. Isaiah chapter 6.

Very good, but the Elect are sealed and probation closes then Christ comes to resurrect and gather the elect to take to heaven.

 

[Jack]

How about a government chip containing ID, financial, medical ... nearly everything government needs to CONTROL?

Revelation 13:16-17
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,

And cashless society?

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[Hobie]

How about a government chip containing ID, financial, medical ... nearly everything government needs to CONTROL?

Revelation 13:16-17
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads,

And cashless society?

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

In the end times timeline of final events, what will happen for every man, woman and child on earth is that we will all have to make one final choice. A choice to take the side of Christ Jesus and receive the seal of God or, under economic pressure and by force and fear of persecution from the world, take the mark of the beast

 

[Hobie]

I believe that you are speaking of another person who suggested alternatives that no one wanted to hear or follow, and He was called a person who did not love the truth. In fact, this person fulfilled Biblical Prophecy which the so-called religious leaders of his time did not understand.

You claim that history supports your tradition, but as I pointed out previously the historical record provided many other possibilities that would comfortably fit your beliefs like a glove.

Yet, when I point out historical facts that confirm the fulfilment of some recorded biblical prophecies, your silence is deafening in the lack of support that you provide in those cases as it disproves your theory that the Roman Empire is the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy, yet the historical fact shows otherwise.

You have stated that I "do not love the truth" yet your own actions and opinions demonstrate that it is you and your denomination that has scant regard for the truth.

Goodbye, you are a part of the weakest link.

We are seeing all the end time fulfilments forming as the fires, floods, and pestilence come with an intensity which used to held as an 'act of God', but now brushed aside with mumblings of scientific jargon or whispers of 'climate change' as so few believe in Him. Soon we shall see the seven last fulfillments, but then it will be too late for many...

 

[Jack]

In the end times timeline of final events, what will happen for every man, woman and child on earth is that we will all have to make one final choice. A choice to take the side of Christ Jesus and receive the seal of God or, under economic pressure and by force and fear of persecution from the world, take the mark of the beast

Not everybody.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Hobie]

Not everybody.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Everyone. Christ will judge and separate the wicked from the saints...

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ...

 

[Jack]

Everyone. Christ will judge and separate the wicked from the saints...

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ...

Who are these?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[soberxp]

Dear Hobie,
You are understanding the "spirit" words of Christ in a carnal way. None of your conclusions are correct. The true "signs of the times" are describing spiritual events which happen within an Elect believer prior to their conversion.

Comment #1: The spiritual symbol "earth" has two meanings in scripture. It can represent mankind's spiritual nature or it can represent believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit (a person's spiritual state of being). In the verse you quoted (Rev 11:18), it is referring to the second meaning. It is these believers who have been destroyed (spiritually killed).

Comment #2: The stories of Noah and Lot are both "types" which teach certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.

Comment #3: Same as number 2 above.

Comment #4: Signs in the sun and moon and stars describe spiritual events that occur during an Elect believer's conversion. The sun that is darkened is Satan and the moon that is darkened is the bondwoman (represents our carnal nature). The light that they give off is being darkened because the person will no longer receive the lies and deceptions they give off but will now receive truth from the brightness of Christ appearing to them (when a person's spiritual blindness is healed).

Comment #5: The "time of the end" and having one's knowledge increased occurs when Christ's gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain and when He heals their spiritual blindness. When their blindness is healed, they will finally find the knowledge of God.

The "ends of the ages" come upon all the Elect at their moment of conversion:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Comment #6: The apostate church came into being near the end of the 1st century. Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot is a symbol for a believer's worsened carnal nature. It "falls" as a result of Christ's judgment upon the Elect believer during their conversion process. Christ's judgment immediately follows the time when an Elect believer sees the A of D. The term "nations" is referring to beliefs within a believer. The wine that they drink represents mixing the Old Wine (Old Covenant, man's works) with the New Wine of the New Covenant. That mixture comes from fornicating with Satan.

Comment #7: "this gospel" that is preached to "all nations" is referring to Satan's "another gospel". After the beliefs (nations) of the believer have fully accepted Satan's gospel, the believer is ready for the "end to come" (Christ's return with the Latter Rain and judgment; the conversion event).

Your conclusions to the scriptures you mentioned in your post are carnally based. The "signs of the times" are spiritual events and should be applied within a person. When an Elect believer sees these signs, they should "look up" because their redemption draws near (Luke 21:28). The "ends of the ages" come upon an Elect believer when they are converted. The signs are not physical/outward signs as you believe. They have nothing to do with the state of the world that exists today. However, they do have anything to do with the spiritual state of an Elect believer just prior to their conversion.

Joe

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God's word usually has two meanings, one about our world and one about spiritual things, so your and his/her understanding are correct.

 

[Hobie]

Who are these?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Notice what it says, "And the dead in Christ" and then those who are alive in Christ are also taken up, the saints..

 

[Jack]

Notice what it says, "And the dead in Christ" and then those who are alive in Christ are also taken up, the saints..

I totally agree. MANY will never die physically.

 

[Hobie]

I totally agree. MANY will never die physically.

These are the 144,000 of Revelation, and the saints which go through the time of trouble such as never was of Daniel. They are distinct because they make it alive through the last days, and the 'dead in Christ' are those who are resurrected at the end. For example the thief on the cross may wear a white robe when he gets to heaven but will not have the special distinctions which set aside the 144,000 which go through the time of trouble such as never was and are alive when Christ comes and they taken up .

 

[FaithWillDo]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God's word usually has two meanings, one about our world and one about spiritual things, so your and his/her understanding are correct.

Dear soberxp,
Sorry for the delay. I've been busy with my website for the past 3 months and have just now had the time to come back to the forum.

As for your comment, the words of Christ (spirit words, John 6:63) usually have two meanings". However, both of the meanings apply within a single person. One meaning is the "natural/old" and one is "spiritual/new".

The concept presented by Paul in the verse below applies:

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Here are a few examples of spirit words that have a natural and spiritual application. These words are being used in the celestial analogy.

2Pet 3:7 But the (natural/old) heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the (natural/old) heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the (natural/old) earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth (the spiritual), wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The spirit word (symbol) "earth" can represent either the Old Earth (natural) or the New Earth (spiritual).

The symbol "earth" represents mankind's "spirit".

In the natural state, the earth represents the marred spirit of mankind which has a carnal & religious spiritual nature. This is the Old Earth.

In the spiritual state, the earth represents the the new spirit of the children of God (a converted person) which has a divine spiritual nature. This is the New Earth.

During an Elect person's process of conversion, the Old Earth will be destroyed/darkened and replaced with the New Earth.

Also contained in the celestial analogy, there is a natural sun, moon and stars which shine their light upon the natural/old earth. This is Satan's celestial kingdom.

Also in the celestial analogy, there is a spiritual sun, moon and stars which shine their light upon the spiritual/new earth. This is Christ's celestial kingdom (Kingdom of Heaven).

The natural sun represents Satan, the natural moon represents the Old Covenant of Law and the natural stars represents the fallen angels/unclean spirits.

The spiritual sun represents Christ, the spiritual moon represents the New Covenant of Grace through Faith and the spiritual stars represent the holy angels (clean spirits).

Both suns and moons are mentioned in the scripture below that is teaching on conversion:

Isa 60:18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. 19 The (natural) sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the (natural) moon give light unto them: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy (spiritual) sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy (spiritual) moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

During the conversion process, the natural sun and moon are said to be darkened because the person who is being converted will no longer receive their light (false truth) from them.

In the scripture below, Christ uses the natural sun, moon and stars in his teaching on the conversion process:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the (natural) sun be darkened, and the (natural) moon shall not give her light, and the (natural) stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Peter mentions the natural earth, sun and moon in his conversion speech:

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will show wonders in heaven (Satan's celestial kingdom) above, and signs in the (old) earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 20 The (natural) sun shall be turned into darkness, and the (natural) moon into blood, BEFORE the great and notable Day of the Lord come come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Can you discern which earth (old or new) is being used in the verse below?

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Joe

 

[soberxp]

Can you discern which earth (old or new) is being used in the verse below?

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Joe

I think the earth here is meaning the both old and new .
For the Word of God itself is judgment.

The Gospel of John
12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Much love and blessing.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I think the earth here is meaning the both old and new .
For the Word of God itself is judgment.

The Gospel of John
12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Much love and blessing.

Dear soberxp,
Christ only judges a person in this age for the purpose of conversion.

There are two stages to that judgment. The first portion occurs just after an Elect person receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit and has their spiritual blindness healed.

This scripture applies to that time:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and Rain (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Immediately following this salvation event, judgment will fall on the Elect person to complete their conversion.

The scripture below presents that judgment. The details of Christ's judgment presented in the scripture apply to ONE Elect person:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two (child of the Devil & child of God) be in the field; the one shall be taken (child of the Devil), and the other left (child of God). 41 Two women (Great Harlot & Bride of Christ) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (Great Harlot), and the other left (Bride of Christ).

After a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, the child of God is formed within (in the womb) the Elect person. At this point, they have a child of God within them and a child of the Devil. A spiritual war will then develop to decide who will govern the person. Since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in measure, it cannot destroy the child of the Devil (cannot convert the Elect person). Satan will then come to the person and plant his seed (the spirit of anti-Christ) within them which will strengthen the child of the Devil. With this added strength, the child of the Devil will win the spiritual war. This is when a believer (a babe) will become apostate; a man of sin. The Elect person will remain in this "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) spiritual condition until Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the child of God in the womb of the believer will be born and gathered to heaven. Judgment will then fall on the Elect person. That judgment is described in Mat 24:37-41 which I quoted above. During that judgment, Christ will remove the child of Devil and the marred spirit (Great Harlot/Old Earth) and cast them both into the Lake of Fire for destruction. After this judgment, the Elect person is converted and is no longer a "babe". They have now become a little child who dwells in the Kingdom of Heaven and are ready to mature into a perfect man of full age.

This verse applies:

Mat 18:13 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

To accomplish the maturing of the new child of God, Christ will use the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit via the person's new divine spirit (New Jerusalem/New Earth) will chastise the new child of God when they disobey the commandments of Christ. The Holy Spirit will also "guide them into all truth" (John 16:13). Both processes will mature the child of God into a perfect man of full age.

The chastising judgment that comes from the Holy Spirit via the new divine spirit (New Earth) is what the verse in question is presenting.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (New) Earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The symbol "earth" represents a person's spirit which can only be the old or the new. Since the Old Earth represents the marred spirit, the judgment of the carnal mind will not come from it (especially since the first judgment removed and destroyed the Old Earth). The chastising judgment of the carnal mind will only come from the New Earth.

Joe