Self-Indulgence

[bbyrd009]

Amen!!! Exactly!!!

I once heard the testimony of a gambling addict/alcoholic (these two types of slavery often go together). He said that, when he came to Christ, he was at the "end of the rope," having lost his family through divorce and nearly all of his possessions. He was in severe depression and contemplating suicide. But God had another plan for this man's life. Even when the man came to Christ, he said he had no intention to give up drinking (and the sexual sin that often accompanies alcoholism) and gambling. But, ultimately, God moved powerfully in this man's life through His Holy Spirit. After an encounter with the Holy Spirit, the man said that he was suddenly stricken with a total distaste for drinking and gambling. He went on to finish his university degree, become a teacher and serve the Lord in all his ways. God strives with His children--so that we really don't need to. All we need is to lay our lives bare before Him, in faith, and He will take on our burdens. He is the "Great Physician"--healing us from all wounds (whether inflicted by others or by ourselves).

dont kid yourself imo,
as you sow, so shall you reap

 

[bbyrd009]

Some ppl do seem to go away and then come back... :)

you realize that this is as close as you have ever gotten to acknowledging my existence, farouk?
understandable though i guess

 

[VictoryinJesus]

imo that can be taken on at least two levels; Jesus was essentially a scapegoat? John 18:14 Lexicon: Now Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.
so fwiw i would not get too complacent with any fact there, the Jesus with two middle fingers raised all the way up at The Man is findable in Scripture imo
leave the world etc

The scapegoat or the model where sin is turned out to die(waste) in the wilderness. 2 Timothy 2:19
[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Been still meditating on Hebrews 11:16 ...haven't returned yet to that thread but regardless of “country” ...they stretch forward, to reach after, to yearn for ...something more excellent. In going back to other translations 11:15 stood out “And if indeed they had been remembering from where they came out, the would have had opportunity to return.”

So, will never hear the “depart from Me, you who practice iniquity. I never knew you.” the same way. In seeing a agreement there in “let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity”

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Isaiah 65:16-17 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. [17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[aspen]

Focusing on indulging ourselves and then spending time feeling guilty about it, is a a characteristic of spiritual immaturity. Mature Christians recognize the areas they have tendencies to sin and, instead of attacking the sin, they accept their faults and focus on loving outwardly. It doesn’t mean they give in to the sin, but surrender to God and repent - turning the selfish tendency around, towards serving others.

Sitting around focusing on how wretched we are and how much we give in to habituated sin/selfishness is not a life of freedom, it just brings more self focus in the form of self loathing.

 

[marks]

I tend to think that focusing on how we indulge ourselves and then feeling guilty about it, describes a baby Christian. Mature Christians have figured out which areas they have tendencies to sin and instead of attacking the sin, they accept their faults and focus on loving outwardly. It doesn’t mean they give up to the sin, it means they surrender to God and repenting - turning from the selfish tendency around, into outward service towards others.

Sitting around focusing on how wretched you are and how much you give in to habituated sin/selfishness is not a life of freedom, it just brings more selfish self loathing.

Just so.

It's focusing on God's love and mercy and forgiveness that actually frees us from those sins.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm reminded of . . . (from the NLT)

Colossians 2
20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, 21 “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? 22 Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. 23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

 

[aspen]

Just so.

It's focusing on God's love and mercy and forgiveness that actually frees us from those sins.

Much love!

Amen!

 

[marks]

Amen!

It's nice to know some people understand this! It encourages me!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Focusing on indulging ourselves and then spending time feeling guilty about it, is a a characteristic of spiritual immaturity. Mature Christians recognize the areas they have tendencies to sin and, instead of attacking the sin, they accept their faults and focus on loving outwardly. It doesn’t mean they give in to the sin, but surrender to God and repent - turning the selfish tendency around, towards serving others.

Sitting around focusing on how wretched we are and how much we give in to habituated sin/selfishness is not a life of freedom, it just brings more self focus in the form of self loathing.

Mature people perhaps...but not mature Christians. The tendency towards sin is done away with when we bring ourselves to be crucified with Christ...then it is the works of Christ that take place...away from sin. There is a maturity in THAT life...that is the Christian maturity. A maturity that grasps the purity of Christ who knew no sin. As we abide in Christ we experience that in THAT place ...IN Him.... is no sin.

But they who have not known the power of God which is by grace through faith can indeed learn to channel their own flaws away from the destructive practices that these engender and exchange that for a service towards others.

Serving mankind is one thing. A good thing. Serving God quite another. This is the way of Christ. The first is done in the strength of the flesh. And the latter by the power of the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

It is a common error to attribute a consecration of oneself to God with holiness. But these are as different as heaven is from earth.

Can we rob Christianity of it's fundamental supernatural element and rest on the works of men?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Focusing on indulging ourselves and then spending time feeling guilty about it, is a a characteristic of spiritual immaturity. Mature Christians recognize the areas they have tendencies to sin and, instead of attacking the sin, they accept their faults and focus on loving outwardly. It doesn’t mean they give in to the sin, but surrender to God and repent - turning the selfish tendency around, towards serving others.

Sitting around focusing on how wretched we are and how much we give in to habituated sin/selfishness is not a life of freedom, it just brings more self focus in the form of self loathing.

Could be so but at the same time even “loving others” can become self-indulgence.

 

[aspen]

Could be so but at the same time even “loving others” can become self-indulgence.

true. However, this is sin, not perfect love. It still needs the work of the Potter

 

[aspen]

It is a common error to attribute a consecration of oneself to God with holiness. But these are as different as heaven is from earth.

Can we rob Christianity of it's fundamental supernatural element and rest on the works of men?

Like Paul, we are still tempted to sin and engage in sin, even after justification and during our sanctification. The evidence? Our imperfect love

 

[marks]

Could be so but at the same time even “loving others” can become self-indulgence.

How do you mean?

 

[Episkopos]

Like Paul, we are still tempted to sin and engage in sin, even after justification and during our sanctification. The evidence? Our imperfect love

During our sanctification? What are you talking about? A sanctified person doesn't sin. There is no process of sanctification. It is a gift of grace from God...not by works or labour lest any man should boast.

Entering into Christ is done at one time...just like the baptism of the Spirit and fire. How long does a baptism last for? A few moments? A few years? How long do you spend in the shower? Is showering a long process? How long was the fire over the heads of the 120 disciples in Acts 2? Years? or moments? So these were fully sanctified for the Lord's use...by power from heaven. Nobody gets that kind of baptism by osmosis. That would be like being in the rain and accumulating wetness long enough to count for a water baptism. ;)

People who have walked with God for decades have come to realize that they are NOT becoming more holy by osmosis. Actually the tendency is to become biased and blase...

No, entering into Christ is in a moment...with a shout of victory on our lips.

If a person thinks that they are slowly becoming sanctified....they are indeed deceived. A surrender to God is in the "now" and the death on the cross is in the "now'. God does not torture us to linger in agony for years on the cross before we finally die. Nobody dies a finger at a time. It is all at once or not at all. People who hold to this common error are they who have never experienced this baptism of the Spirit and fire together with the full victory that Jesus won at the cross and in His resurrection that we should walk in it by FAITH.

These walk in their own power...and are earthbound.

 

[Episkopos]

It is a true saying that the carnal nature seeks for gratification. Self-satisfaction takes many forms. The least desirable of these forms is the religious tendency to look for a justification for remaining in a sinful state. Why do this (shortchanging the faith) when Jesus has won the victory over sin...and offers us to have that victory by entering into Him?

Then it becomes a case of a lack of knowledge (My people perish for the lack of it)...or a lack of faith in the living God to do as He promised.

The grace of God is sufficient for us. It is sufficient to make our walks to mirror the walk of faith of Christ when He walked on this earth.

A student is not above His teacher but every student who is instructed properly will be as His teacher.

But few will seek the Lord to that effect. Faith is lacking.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How do you mean?

To escape and cover up guilt and shame with deeds of love. For glory and the praise of men. Giving the homeless man on the street corner your last five bucks because it makes you feel like a better person. Those He told to depart from Him ask “when did we not minster unto you?” (imo) love should bring a person down in seeing they are no better or no different than anyone else. Not inflate the ego of well-doing. If love brings with it superiority, then something is amiss?

 

[aspen]

Episkopos do you love perfectly?
I rest my case

 

[bbyrd009]

Been still meditating on Hebrews 11:16 .

i note the onsite xlation at least parenthesis "country," that helps.

“And if indeed they had been remembering from where they came out, the would have had opportunity to return.”

So, will never hear the “depart from Me, you who practice iniquity. I never knew you.”

this sentence seems to lack an object, not getting you here sorry. Something between "So" and "will?"

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more

this would be easier if we could sans the "barketh, barketh" imo...but anyway yeh, i still find myself "plowing my own ground" and not shepherding, i am doing it right now even. We are trained into it from birth, seems like.

 

[bbyrd009]

Focusing on indulging ourselves and then spending time feeling guilty about it, is a a characteristic of spiritual immaturity. Mature Christians recognize the areas they have tendencies to sin and, instead of attacking the sin, they accept their faults and focus on loving outwardly. It doesn’t mean they give in to the sin, but surrender to God and repent - turning the selfish tendency around, towards serving others.

Sitting around focusing on how wretched we are and how much we give in to habituated sin/selfishness is not a life of freedom, it just brings more self focus in the form of self loathing.

you remind me that many things we would not deem sin are nonetheless plowing our own ground, so to speak. Which i find i am an expert at, i guess, homeless or not.