Well that's interesting that 'if God permits' may be in regard to either God permitting the author and his group to leave the elementary teachings about the Christ and move onto more mature teachings, or in regard to God permitting them to move onto maturity itself. But your assertion is they haven't gotten to the point of partaking of the Holy Spirit yet. The problem is that doesn't change the fact that the author says once a person partakes of the Holy Spirit and falls away that it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.
Ref: reply #946
Hello
@Ferris Bueller,
I am so glad you responded, for I began to think you may not. Glad too that my response prompted thought for you, as yours did for me. That is all we can wish for from one another I think. :)
* You refer to my thought that they had not partaken of the holy spirit yet as an 'assertion', and that is a strong word, but I do think that just as the words of Hebrews 3:13-14 use the word 'if', in relation to partaking of Christ:- ' ...
we are made partakers, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end... ' indicate that they had not yet partaken of Him: that words of Hebrews 6:3-6 indicate an action which has not yet been taken and of an experience yet to have been tasted:-
'And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those
.. who were once enlightened, and
.... have tasted of the heavenly gift, and
...... were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And
........ have tasted the good word of God, and
.......... the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away,
.. to renew them again unto repentance;
.... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
...... and put Him to an open shame.'
(Hebrews 6:3-6)
* The question that arises in my mind in regard to Hebrews 3:13-14 and the words, '
we are made partakers of Christ', and the words that follow,
'if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end', is:- If, 'the end' is in view, then when does the partaking of Christ take place? For the word 'end' brings us to the end of our race, our goal, our life. So does the partaking of Christ for the believer actually take place in resurrection life? It would appear so.
@Ferris Bueller said:-
The problem is that doesn't change the fact that the author says once a person partakes of the Holy Spirit and falls away that it is impossible for them to be brought back to repentance.
* First of all these believers were of the believing remnant of Israel: and that makes all the difference I believe. These will live, for they are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ: the gift of life has been promised to them; and God's gifts are
'without repentance', so it will be received. Yes, they will live, but they will not reign. That Heavenly Calling they so desire to partake of, like those of their countrymen in Hebrews 11, may now be beyond their grasp.
* Looking at the wording of these verses, there is a whole package of thought to consider, not only partaking of the Holy Ghost, which is only one aspect of the whole; but:-
- enlightenment
- tasting of the heavenly gift, and
- the powers of the world to come, and
- partaking of the Holy Ghost.
* These Hebrew believers (
of the believing remnant of Israel), had received the basic principles of the doctrine of Christ:- the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Heb. 6:1-2) - Nothing is said about the possibility, or consequence of them falling away from these things. No, it is if they should go on and receive enlightenment, taste of the heavenly gift, and the powers of the world to come and partake of the Holy Ghost, -
'If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.' (Heb 6:6)
* The miraculous gifts of the Acts were foretastes of the age to come. The Holy Spirit and His gifts. Looking back to Hebrews 2:3-5, it says,
'How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation ... ... ... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and distributions of holy spirit, according to His own will? For unto the angels hath He not subjected the world to come, whereof we speak'
* This
'falling away' is after enlightenment and partaking of the Holy Spirit, and here lies the danger. This aspect of the teaching in Hebrews is but the application of the Lord given in Matthew 12:31-32.
'Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this world, neither in the world to come.'
* That is dire, isn't it?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
