Secure Eternal Salvation

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Ferris Bueller

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And, as I explained in my last post - the Catholic Church is not a “denominiatio0n”. iI is the Original Tree of Christianity from which Protestant denominations splintered and continue to splinter to this day to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed factions.
The Catholic church is just one of many different theologies within Christianity.
At the present time there is no one single organization that possesses the truth as an official representative of God on earth. There are individuals who are official representatives of God, but no organization is.
 

amigo de christo

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All in all, this life has been little more than a nightmare for me.
You mean all in this world , and yes i know you have suffered my friend .
Speaking of life , though , ponder on the beauty of ETERNAL LIFE FOUND ONLY IN THE RISEN SAVOIR CHRIST JESUS .
YEAH , that is the life the lambs love and cling too . So you just march on truman . Pull them boots on and strap on all armour .
Our fight for the true faith is not over till we have breathed out our last breath or HE DOES COME .
On those feets solidier and into those trenches . ITS WAR for the souls of men and we must point all that draws breath TO JESUS
while there still be time to do so .
 

Ferris Bueller

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that ONE Church., which is a visible, unified Body (Matt. 5:14).
Individuals are visible. A unified body is not visible at this time in history.
Your denomination, for example, is polluted with gay pedophile priests.
That hardly amounts to a visible unified body of Christ when you look at the Catholic church.
On the Protestant side of things, seeker friendly theologies have polluted the body with unbelievers.
 

amigo de christo

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I have be ill and in pain for 21 years. The only thing that's changed is that it's gotten worse.
March on my friend . march onwards in the glorious Lord . You are loved and prayed for my friend .
Just ponder on the great hope we have in CHRIST and how all the lambs are gonna one day gather round the glorious LORD .
Forever free from the pains and trials of this life and forever with the glorious LORD who has saved us . yeah . Ponder on that my friend .
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Protestant denominations are divided into literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been “led” to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.
Just like your denomination which created it's own holy days, among other things, supposedly led by the Holy Spirit and/or by the authority it says it has to do whatever it wants to do as official vicars of Christ. Your denomination is not any different from the Protestant denominations. They're all corrupt to some degree and are not official agents of Christ in the world. Individuals within them may be, according to the various gifts believers are given. But no one organization is the official representative of God's truth in the earth. That does not exist anymore. It hasn't for hundreds of years.
 

robert derrick

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God will not look upon our sin- because He sees no sin in us!

I.e. God cannot see my inward disobedience, that everyone can see outwardly.

The real dirty little secret of OSAS, is the devil's doctrine that believing and obeying are not the same, because they do not come from the same place.

Matters of faith only have to do with the heart, whether to believe or not to believe. And matters of obedience only have to do with the body, whether to obey or not to obey.

To acknowledge, that both believing and obeying are in the heart, and thus from the heart, compels a confession of two things:

First, that eternal salvation is indeed by believing obedience in the heart: by obeying God from the heart.

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Second, that deeds done by the body are judged from disobedience in the heart, and so the sin is indeed seen by God in the heart and upon the soul.

Outward disobedience is from inward disobedience, which cannot be separate from inward faith, because both believing and obeying Him are the same thing and from the same place.

Since 'unconditional' salvation by faith in the heart alone cannot be judged by outward deeds of the body, because such salvation is not dependent on such deeds, then believing and obeying must be two different and separate things to judge by!

Therefore, with the heart only faith is judged, as believing or not believing, and only with the body are matters of obedience judged, whether obeying or not obeying.

We can disobey outwardly, while still believing inwardly, since believing and obeying are not the same thing, because they are not from the same source.

Once 'unconditionally' saved, the deeds of the body no more have anything to do with the condition of the heart and salvation of the soul, because only the body can be judged for matter of obedience, and only matters of faith can be judged in the heart.

The heart and soul, now seated in heavenly places, are 'made forever separated' from the natural body yet still on the earth, so that the faith of the former has nothing to do with the deeds of the latter!

While the heart and soul forever now sit in the heavenlies in the presence of the Lord, waiting for a crown they have already won by faith alone, the unbelieving vile body goes on doing it's disobedient things.

It's worse than the modern happy hippy salvation by faith alone: "I know I disobey outwardly, but God knows my heart is still believing inwardly."

It is a very very strong delusion of no need to confess from the heart what is done in the body, not because of past forgiveness at the cross, but because the sinful deed was only by disobedience of the body, not by the heart which can only believe or disbelieve, but not do!

It's not the heart's 'fault' for disobedience of the body, because the heart in heaven no longer has anything to do with obedience of the body on earth!

It is the false doctrine of the resurrection is past, which overthrows the faith of Jesus, because it rejects the obedience of Jesus in the heart: their heart and soul have already been resurrected into heavenly places, awaiting the resurrection of that disobedient body, that they have nothing to do with!

Their 'bodies' will only obey according to their faith of the heart, when those bodies are resurrected incorruptible, and will therefore do, whatsoever their hearts tell them: following the Lamb whithersoever He goeth is not possible, while those natural bodies are still stuck on earth!

The soul which sinneth it shall die, is only if the heart doesn't believe in it's own salvation, because the soul and the heart cannot sin once unconditionally saved by faith alone, but only the body. Therefore, God cannot see any sin on the soul, because there is no sin to see there, but only in the corrupted body:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

It's the ultimate nothing to see here, and what happens on earth, stays on earth!

This stuff truly would make John's mind go astoundingly bonkers:

And when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her.


The mystery of the OSAS woman and beast, who must carry the great whore, is a body that is left separated and alone on earth, by an heart and soul that has abandoned it to it's disobedient lifestyle, while living it up on sins that never pass, done in the body of the beast, and yet by faith alone saying in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

What need I of confession of my heart and godly sorrow for the deeds of that beastly and vile body on earth?! I'm not only already forgiven, but I don't need any forgiveness, because all I can do is believe or not, and that dumb body can only do or not!

One day, that beastly body will turn on that heart and soul and destroy it, utterly.

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

I always wondered why the beast came to hate that whore so much. It must be that the body hates being hung out to dry, as the only one to blame for it's deeds, because the heart separates itself from any responsibility for them.

When we forsake responsibility for the deeds of our bodies on earth, we forsake our own souls.
 

Ferris Bueller

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The lack ignorance and lack if faith in your comment above in RED is astounding - especially for a person who claims to follow Christ.

Jesus GUATANTEED that His Church would NOT succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18) - yet YOU have this happening in the first 200 years of the Church's history.
Look at some of this junk some of the early church leaders pumped out...

Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?
Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?
 

Pythagorean12

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I.e. speechless in the face of plain Scriptural correction.

The Master-slave relationship between the Master Christ and His slaves that obey Him is odious to the proud carnal mind.

In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion.

When we cannot be corrected by God's Word, then our minds become reporabate to God, because He can no longer talk to us as God.

OSAS ceased to be any form of study or debate, once they declared their doctrine can never ever be disproven nor corrected.

It is now just a simple case study of how far they are willing to go with carnal reasoning against Scripture.

It has been both astonishing and fabulous at the same time.
OSAS is gospel.

I'm certain those who have the Holy Spirit within know the import of the promise and the eternal irrevocable seal, as Jesus taught.
And no one shall ever take us from his hand.
Not even when detractors insist Christ died for a lie.

It's crystal clear. If we're not sealed for all time, we are not saved at all.
And simply put, no Christian would ever insist they're not saved.
Which, given the gravity of the Gospel message, is precisely what Once Sealed Always Sealed deniers are stating.

Nowhere in scripture does God say our actions can lead to his evicting himself, Holy Spirit, from within us.

Why is that?
For the reason the deniers don't understand the Gospel's first fact.

God chooses us!
We don't choose him. God's grace freely gifts his Elect with faith and eternal salvation.
He gifts. We can't lose what he gifts those he chose before the creation of this world.
 
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Taken

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Secure Eternal Salvation
OP ^

YES,
which (before physical death) APPLIES to those Converted “IN” Christ.

Salvation IS a gift offering;
“Of” God,
“Through” Gods Word (Jesus),
“By” Gods Power (Christ.)

Any man WHO FREELY Accepts Gods offering,
(According to Gods WAY),
Becomes:
Soul restored, saved unto the Lord God, and preserved (Kept) unto the Lord God.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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Individuals are visible. A unified body is not visible at this time in history.
Your denomination, for example, is polluted with gay pedophile priests.
That hardly amounts to a visible unified body of Christ when you look at the Catholic church.
On the Protestant side of things, seeker friendly theologies have polluted the body with unbelievers.
Apparently, you didn't learn a THING from the lesson I taught you back in post #494.

According to Protestant author, Philip Jenkins, in his book, Pedophiles and Priests - the problem is FAR WORSE in Protestant sects than in the Catholic church - and he lays out the legal statistics to prove it.

Sooooooo, instead of walling in hypocrisy - I suggest you clean up your OWM back yard before pointing fingers at anybody else . . .

The following apply to virtually EVERY Protestant denomination . . .
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says

 

BreadOfLife

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The Catholic church is just one of many different theologies within Christianity.

At the present time there is no one single organization that possesses the truth as an official representative of God on earth. There are individuals who are official representatives of God, but no organization is.
Nonsense.

History shows us that the ONLY Christian Church at the end of the first century was the Catholic Church.
And the Bible says that –

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12).
Jesus also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- Jesus gave His Church Supreme earthly Authority, that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).



These passages are about His Church at largenot each individual.
For example – where do Protestants from different denominations or “Lone Ranger” believers go when addressing the concerns that Jesus described here:

Matt. 18:15-17
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
 

BreadOfLife

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So, just to be clear. You remain justified whether you sin or not?
Not if you commit sin that causes death.

Whereas ALL sin damages our relationship with God - grave or mortal sin cuts us off from God's grace (causes death - 1 John 5:17).
I think it's that the Protestant churches assume they represent the correct and spiritual understanding that those individuals outside of the falseness and corruption of the Roman Catholic church had before the Reformation.
Yeah - YOU think Jesus was lying in Matt. 16:18. when He guaranteed that it would never fail - and in John 16:12-15 which He said that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth.

Good luck with that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I was hoping you'd specifically exegete the passage for me.

I did that for you. It was easy because the passage says exactly what I said it says.

Since the passage doesn't say exactly what you say it says we kind of have to see some specific exegesis on your part.
I'll make you a deal -
YOU
show me the explici6t teaching of Sola Scriptura from Scripture - and I will give you the verse YOU are demanding.

Here's what the Bible says about the fallacy of "Scripture alone" . . .
2 Thess. 2:15

"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."
 

Taken

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OSAS is gospel.

You likely have observed, men against OSAS, do not understand it, ignore any attempt to step by step explain it, and essentially make the Lord a Liar.

ONCE SAV-ED...is predicated BY “IF” an individual exercised his own Freewill TO Willingly Surrender to the Lord God, his life, his soul, his spirit, “FOR” the Lord God TO ‘effect” the Salvation (and CONVERSION), He OFFERED, effected by and through
His...Authority;
His...Power;
His...Promise;
His...Works;

And “a man” preaches “a man” CAN undermine Gods Authority, Power, Promise, Works....uh that notion is suspect!

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Illuminator

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CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE ALMOST WIPED OUT

The 2020 Annual Report on clergy sexual abuse has just been released. It is published by the National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Youth Protection of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. The data were collected by StoneBridge Business Partners.

During the period July 1, 2019 – June 30, 2020, there were 22 current allegations involving minors. Given that there are approximately 50,000 members of the clergy (49,926), and the number of substantiated charges are 6, this means that 99.9% of the clergy did not have a substantiated accusation made against him in the last year we have data.

This is nothing new. From 2010 to 2020, the average number of substantiated charges made against the Catholic clergy stands at 5.9. In short, this problem has almost been wiped out in the Catholic Church.

There is no other institution in society where adults regularly interact with minors that can match this record. But don’t expect state attorneys general to launch a probe of the sexual abuse of minors in any of them, especially the public schools, where it is sorely needed.
 
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Enoch111

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For the reason the deniers don't understand the Gospel's first fact.
This is the real reason for all this foolish talk about losing salvation. One only has to read verses like Romans 6:23 or Ephesians 2:8-10 to understand that salvation is God's gift to the one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 10:9-13; Acts 16:31).

At the same time Christians should understand that we are in a spiritual war, and one aspect of that is Satan casting doubts on the Gospel promises, or attacking the Gospel, so that people are constantly confused.
 

Pythagorean12

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You likely have observed, men against OSAS, do not understand it, ignore any attempt to step by step explain it, and essentially make the Lord a Liar.

ONCE SAV-ED...is predicated BY “IF” an individual exercised his own Freewill TO Willingly Surrender to the Lord God, his life, his soul, his spirit, “FOR” the Lord God TO ‘effect” the Salvation (and CONVERSION), He OFFERED, effected by and through
His...Authority;
His...Power;
His...Promise;
His...Works;

And “a man” preaches “a man” CAN undermine Gods Authority, Power, Promise, Works....uh that notion is suspect!

Glory to God,
Taken
I think it's known as auto-theism. Self as God.
People that think God doesn't keep his promise for which he was sacrificed, died, are not people informed by God's spirit but their own ego instead.

That they have to help God to keep them saved is egocentrism. And denies God is sovereign and Omnipotent.
Basically, its Satanic.

Of course. You're still his, Satan's,if you stumble, don't work hard enough to retain God's favor, are still a damned sinner on the precepis of Hell,and must live insecure in Christ.

Eternal Salvation.
Two words one fact of God's irrevocable free gift.

I find it impossible for Elect Christians to argue it's not true. Because their pride is stronger than God's will and plan.
 
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Pythagorean12

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Not if you commit sin that causes death.

Whereas ALL sin damages our relationship with God - grave or mortal sin cuts us off from God's grace (causes death - 1 John 5:17).

Yeah - YOU think Jesus was lying in Matt. 16:18. when He guaranteed that it would never fail - and in John 16:12-15 which He said that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth.

Good luck with that . . .
As long as you realize your dogma is exclusively applied for and to Latin Rite Catholics, you're then correct.