Secure Eternal Salvation

[robert derrick]

Well I pity you and your crippled relationship with God. I hate sin and wish no one ever sins.

So says the one who hates the very mention of obedience for eternal salvation.

Lip service. All lip service.

 

[robert derrick]

Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: and let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified.

Them that love His salvation, seek Him continually how to please Him with obedience to the faith.

No obedience, no seeking, no love for His salvation: no eternal salvation.

Eternal salvation is for all them that continually obey Him to please Him, and are continually glad to do so.

The salvation that is by faith alone says obedience to the Master as a glad slave is heresy and hateful:

You act as if we're conditionally saved, which is heresy, and are slaves to God the master. Who cracks the whip if we don't remain obedient to what?

The devil has been accusing God of this for a very long time.

 

[robert derrick]

You act as if we're conditionally saved, which is heresy, and are slaves to God the master. Who cracks the whip if we don't remain obedient to what?

OSAS sees our Master-slave relationship with obedience for eternal salvation, as that of a hard taskmaster: the devil.

And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

OSAS is all mental salvation of the strong delusion, that outward disobedience is covered by inward grace. And so, hates outward obedience to the law of Christ as anathema to their temporal salvation, which it is:

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What I'm saying is, what you said you believe is entirely inconsistent with 1 Corinthians 15:2, 1 John 2:24, 2 John 1:9, Hebrews 3:6, and Hebrews 3:14.

You have to continue to believe in order to be presently saved.
The person who does not continue to believe and is not presently believing does not abide in Christ and is not saved. That's what all those verses say.

If biblical ignorance is bliss- you are one of the happiest people on earth!. You need to go past what you were taught and look deeper into the bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I checked and I did not see where ei, ean, or eanper ever mean, by definition, 'since'. So what determines which case is being used? Whichever one fits your theology?

Are you that insistence on foolishness? Language and grammar- subjects you desperately appear to be lacking in.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I checked and I did not see where ei, ean, or eanper ever mean, by definition, 'since'. So what determines which case is being used? Whichever one fits your theology?

Go beyond a simple concordance and do some language studies for a change. A concordance is a good basic tool, but it does not for example show you the nuanced differences in the 580 verb endings a verb in the Greek can have. It does not show you the difference between aorist or present or subjunctive etc. It just gives the basic definition of a word.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would hope the same for you but you may not come back in the time that God may give you to come back. If he gives you any time to come back before he turns you over to your unbelief. The Bible is very clear. The person who does not continue in the gospel does not have God:

"9Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son." 2 John 1:9
​

John says you have to remain in the teaching of Christ to have the Father and the Son. So my counsel to you is what the counsel of the Bible is: keep believing. And so, in accordance with what the Bible plainly says, I would never hope that you have a season of unbelief, as you have hoped I would have.

Well I guess all of us are unsaved then. I can't thinkof any Christian who has a full lock on the Christian life who has never run ahead of Christ!

but as the Bible teaches-

1. You need to stop making eternal judgments like this. YOu oh proud man do not know the heart of an individual.
2. God does
3. The bible clearly teaches that there are many who look and sound and act like Christians, but never were- and yet you have not even once acknowleged these Bible verses.
4. REmaining in christ is the providence of Jesus Himself.

YOu have to add a disclaimer to all the verses and passages that say we are secure. If it is Jesus who began a good work and WILL complete it to that day, I am secure.
5. I am dead and my life is hidden in Christ. But you say I can unhide myself.
6. YOu deny that teh blood forgives all your sins when you trusted Christ.
7. You can't even know with certainty if you are even saved now! You don't know if a time of coubt was actually unbelief and thuis you were kicked out of the kingdom by a loving Father who is not so loving.
8. You believe in conditional salvation- the bible teaches eternal salvation.
9. The Bible teaches God forgives all our sins, and remembers them no more- you don't.
10. I cannot serve the false concept of God you have been erroneously taught. He is like the God who was depicted by the church that rules in the dark ages. They lied about HIm and you are carrying on that lie!

I will hold to what the bible clearly teaches:

1. I cannot know the salvific condition of anothers soul.
2. If they turn away from the faith they appeared to have- the bible says they never had it in a salvation sense.
3. God willing you will decide to do real bible study and repent of this false teaching that has corrupted your mind.

And to put it on the record here- I do not believe grace is a license to sin! Every human already has that license by reason of being a sinner at conception by nature! Grace is a license to serve the God who saved us (conditionally in your case) and to learn by the renbewing of our mind.

Bu tlet me ask you a question. I hope you believe God is omniscient and knows past, present and future. Why would God go through all the things the bible says He does when one become a Christian knowing full well He would undo it if one falls into unbelief?

1. Writes their name in the lambs book of life only to erase it.
2. Justify them only to unjustify them
3. save them only to unsave them them.
4. Translate them out of darkness into teh kingdom of HIs soin- only to send them back into darkness.
5. Elect them only to unelect them.
6. Predestine them only to unpredestinate them.
7. Seal them until the day of redemption only to unseal them.
8. Foreknow them only un know them.
9. Glorify them only to ungloriy them.
10 Give them a new nature only to take it away again.
11. Make them His child only to undo them. Remember a person who gets saved becomes a whole new creature.
12. Justify them only to unjustify them.
13. Perfect them forever and making them holy only to stop the process.
14. Seat you in a heavenly place only to unseat you.
15. Give you eternal life (maybe you call it probational life) only to remove it.
16. Say no one can pluck them out of His hand, when you say someone can!

Why would He do this and so much more if He knew in advance he would have to undo all that he did?????????????????

I await your detailed answer. Please just don't say because a person stopped believing! Why save them to unsave them?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would hope the same for you but you may not come back in the time that God may give you to come back. If he gives you any time to come back before he turns you over to your unbelief. The Bible is very clear. The person who does not continue in the gospel does not have God:

If you only knew the bible, you would know that this is something that cannot happen. When God looks at me He doesn't see me but Jesus! I am dead and my life is hidden in christ!

But I agree with you that if a person does not continue He does not have god- Believers continue because it is Jesus doing the work.

Like the bible says if they don't continue, they were weeds and not wheat, goats and not sheep, wolves in sheep clothing, never known by Jesus (not known then unknown) and were never of us, and looked saved sound saved and even acted like they were saved but never saved to begin with! All their works were not of God for though they may have been religious- they were not children of God.

I thank my God through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior that I have eternal life and that no man ( not even me) can pluck me out of His hand or my Fathers hands.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Are you that insistence on foolishness? Language and grammar- subjects you desperately appear to be lacking in.

So, you don't know what determines which case of the 'if' is to be used in a passage?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why would God go through all the things the bible says He does when one become a Christian knowing full well He would undo it if one falls into unbelief?

What's so hard about doing that?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why would He do this and so much more if He knew in advance he would have to undo all that he did?????????????????

I await your detailed answer. Please just don't say because a person stopped believing! Why save them to unsave them?

Because man has free choice.
He does not take away a person's free choice.

 

[robert derrick]

You need to go past what you were taught and look deeper into the bible.

Thankfully God is not allowed to look too deeply into the sins of saved by faith only.

Princess Grace doesn't allow that.

The deeper they go into the Bible to justify their dead faith, the deeper they go into the depths of Satan to do so:

Thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

The seductive teaching of having salvation by faith only, and having no sins that God can see, is only seducing to them that want fornication and idolatry with salvation.

 

[robert derrick]

God sees those who are his no matter how many good works or lack thereof are present in their life.

God will not look upon our sin- because He sees no sin in us!

He sees who we are, but cannot see what we are.

Incredible.

O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee. (Ps 69:5)

God not only sees all our sins, but He sees them in us even before committed.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

OSAS is the modern dystopian doctrine of believing the soul is saved, while the heart is still corrupt, because God can't 'see' it, since the blood of His Son is blocking His view of it.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out.

There is no eye for OSAS to pluck out. After all, since God is turning a blind eye to their sin, why shouldn't they?

And so they do. And they 'celebrate' over it too.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's not what I said.

I said the true church of God is composed of individual believers, not a denomination of believers. There is no denomination of true believers. That includes your denomination.

And, as I explained in my last post - the Catholic Church is not a “denominiatio0n”. iI is the Original Tree of Christianity from which Protestant denominations splintered and continue to splinter to this day to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed factions.

They are only hidden in that they can not be identified in a single denomination.
We are mingled throughout the various denominations that man has constructed, including the Catholic denomination. There are probably some genuine believers attending Catholic churches.

Correct – and not a single Protestant denomination represents the Universal Church. They are splintered FACTIONS of that ONE Church., which is a visible, unified Body (Matt. 5:14).

Protestant denominations are divided into literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been “led” to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

I don't think a gay pedophile priest constitutes the body of Christ.

That right there alone should show you that the body of Christ does not exist in a denomination. It's the sum total of true believers scattered amongst the organizations of men and the corruption within them.

And that statement is without a doubt the most idiotic one you’ve made yet – and that takes SOME doing . . .

Tell me – do all of the gay and pedophile Protestant leaders constitute the Body of Christ?

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Child abuse a Calvinist problem, podcast says

 

[BreadOfLife]

By the 3rd and 4th centuries your church had become so anti-Semitic and deviated from any semblance of the first church for it to even remotely qualify as the church of John the Apostle. That's why I say just saying you're the true universal (Catholic) church means nothing. Anybody can say that. As I said, Protestants make that claim too.

The lack ignorance and lack if faith in your comment above in RED is astounding - especially for a person who claims to follow Christ.

Jesus GUATANTEED that His Church would NOT succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18) - yet YOU have this happening in the first 200 years of the Church's history. According to YOU - Jesus lied and everybody was destined for Hell until the 16th century when the Church "resurfaced".

Finally - NO Protestant denomination can claim to be the "universal" Church when they were ALL established by men in the 16th century or after.

 

[BreadOfLife]

QUOTE="Ferris Bueller, post: 1168236, member: 9156"]Show me where it says that.
I see where it says if you fall away you can't be restored to repentance because it subjects Christ to open shame so God doesn't allow it.

6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:6

Now you show me where it says what you say it says.[/QUOTE]
You approach Scripture like a spoiled child. If it's not spelled out explicitly - you refuse to accept it - EXCEPT when it comes to some of our perverse doctrines like Sola Scriptura.

You refuse to look at the context of Scripture because it's too much work. So, instead - you cherry-pick verses OUT of context and demand that I also cherry-puck you a verse to counter yours.

I ALREADY gave you the context of the book of Hebrews regarding Jesus's relationship to the Old and New Covenants. In other words - this answers your question but you're no equipped to see it.
I suggest you RE-READ post #460 and try to approach it as an adult.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just so I don't misunderstand...you believe that you have to be re-justified over and over again?

Nope.

You don't have to be justified again.
You don't even have to sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nope.

You don't have to be justified again.
You don't even have to sin.

So, just to be clear. You remain justified whether you sin or not?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Show me where it says that.
I see where it says if you fall away you can't be restored to repentance because it subjects Christ to open shame so God doesn't allow it.

6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:6

Now you show me where it says what you say it says.

You approach Scripture like a spoiled child. If it's not spelled out explicitly - you refuse to accept it - EXCEPT when it comes to some of our perverse doctrines like Sola Scriptura.

You refuse to look at the context of Scripture because it's too much work. So, instead - you cherry-pick verses OUT of context and demand that I also cherry-puck you a verse to counter yours.

I ALREADY gave you the context of the book of Hebrews regarding Jesus's relationship to the Old and New Covenants. In other words - this answers your question but you're no equipped to see it.
I suggest you RE-READ post #460 and try to approach it as an adult.

I was hoping you'd specifically exegete the passage for me.
I did that for you. It was easy because the passage says exactly what I said it says.
Since the passage doesn't say exactly what you say it says we kind of have to see some specific exegesis on your part.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Finally - NO Protestant denomination can claim to be the "universal" Church when they were ALL established by men in the 16th century or after.

I think it's that the Protestant churches assume they represent the correct and spiritual understanding that those individuals outside of the falseness and corruption of the Roman Catholic church had before the Reformation.