They made a choice to be faithful to God...
Right, after the point that God gives them a new spirit. Otherwise, they would have never done so.
...not that God forced a remnant to serve Him.
God doesn't force anybody to do anything.
You do understand that the plan God had for Israel is not a blanket view of the entire range of Adam's offspring?
God's Israel is not made up of all humanity, no. If that's what you're saying, then we're in agreement on that...
but I really can't make out what you're really saying, to be quite honest.... In addition to that, though, not all Jewish people are of God's Israel either; "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" (Romans 9:6). So, not all Gentiles, and not all Jews, but... it's made up of Jews and Gentiles... these together are God's elect, together true Jews...
"no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical... a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter" (Romans 2:28-29)
That some of Israel were a remnant applied to Israel, not a remnant of Egypt, a remnant of Rome, nor a remnant of current nations.
I think you have a misunderstanding of who Israel really is, Timtofly. It's a common problem. Physical Israel and God's true Israel are two different things, although many of physical Israel ~ ethnic Jews ~ are or will be part of God's Israel, which again, is synonymous with God's elect.
Saying your verses apply to mankind as a whole is not a proper interpretation...
Didn't say that, nor would I. But saying all of humanity is elect of God is absolutely wrong. The Bible ~ Paul, in particular ~ is very clear about who God's elect, His Israel, are.
, and hardly applies to redemption as a whole.
Again, I can't follow your... thoughts. <
chuckles>
All of Adam's offspring are considered God's elect until the time comes when that election is taken away, and most removed from the Lamb's book of life.
So, support this with Scripture, Timtofly. If you can. Or rather, if you
think you can.
Being born again of the second spiritual birth cements that election, which cannot be taken away after that point.
That's when it manifests itself in the individual, yes. And, yes,
"the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29).
Those of the second birth are who you call the elect. Scripture just calls them sons of God. 1 John 3:2
Correct. Agree. But there are still folks out there who
are elect, but it hasn't
manifest itself in them yet... they haven't yet been born again... But they will be. We don't know who they are, of course, and they don't know it yet themselves. But they will be.
The GWT is not when people are declared elect.
Of course not. I'm not even sure why you might have felt compelled to say that, or think saying that even necessary.
The GWT is when they stand as the dead...
All stand before Christ at the final Judgment ~ as we see graphically from Jesus Himself in Matthew 25:31-46.
...and removed from the Lamb's book of life,
No one is removed. Again, I would be interested in knowing how you back this up with anything in the Bible. Presumably you're referring to Revelation 20:11-15, but no one is removed from the Book of Life. There are those whose name is "not found there," but I hope you're not "understanding" that to mean that any name was removed.
Their election is confirmed or the point God never knew them, happens.
The elect ~ the ones on Jesus's right in the final Judgment ~ those in Christ, stand in the judgment (Psalm 1). The others... yes, the dead, or the wicked ~ the ones on Jesus's left in the final Judgment ~ will not stand in the congregation of the righteous, will not stand in the final Judgement. They will depart... they will not enter into the New Heaven and New Earth. They will go away, for eternity, into judgment.
We are elected, because Jesus died on the Cross and from God's perspective, that was before creation.
That's kind of a strange way to put it, but okay. <
smile> God is always present at all times. He is the great I AM. Time is a part of His creation, and He is over all creation. Kind of hard to wrap our finite minds around, but true.
We always had a relationship from God.
Well, we always had a relationship
to God, yes. Creator to creature/created... that will always be. We were all originally, naturally at enmity with God, but only God's elect enter into a personal relationship with God ~ Jesus, of course ~ and only when they are born again of the Spirit.
"Always had a relationship from God"... Again, I'm not sure what that even means. Maybe that God set all of us in place in relation to Him, but I mean... You say some peculiar things... or maybe it's just
how you say things... I don't know. <
chuckles>
The second birth makes our election sure...
Is when it ~ our election ~ manifests itself in us. If that's what you mean, then yes, that's correct.
and gives God a relationship from us.
Strange. I'm not sure whether to call that a strange thought or just a strange choice of words.
You are the one making claims
Well, I give my understanding of relevant passages in the Bible. If that's what you mean by "making claims," then okay... I guess...
God forces an elect few to become elect.
Now, are you saying this? Or are you saying that I'm saying this? Either way, it's just absurd. God chose who he chose, before the foundation of the world... elected whom He elected before any were born or had done anything good or bad. And, at some point in their lives, that election is made manifest in them, when they are born again of the Spiritand thus saved through faith, which is God's grace ~ and their being conformed to the image of Christ, which they had been predestined to, begins.
You again state election starts when we make a choice...
Nope. I say that our election
manifests itself in us at the point we are born again of the Spirit. And then we indeed make the choice, the right one, because of the new spirit in us given to us by God.
My claim is election was true for all humanity from before creation.
I know. <
smile> In the sense that many were elect and many were not from before creation, I agree. <
smile>
The choice we make at some point in our existence, is to make that election sure and binding, never to be revoked.
If you mean that in the sense of our election, which is really from before creation itself, manifests itself in us at that point, then I agree.
And yes, many dead at the GWT, after being dead in death for thousands of years will make that choice...
They will not, unfortunately. Again, I would like to know if this is just a thought you have, or if you have some kind of something from God's Word that you think supports this.
Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.